123

30/30's, 60/60's, 3-3's, 3's with short rest vs traditional intervals. (Read 1570 times)

    For what it is worth, I did Tough Mudder in Wisconsin last weekend.  I trained purely by my regular running regimen and while times aren't released yet, I suspect I was in the top 5% to qualify for the World's Toughest Mudder in December.  I'm not particularly strong so while I struggled with some of the obstacles that are pure upper body strength (Berlin Walls, Mount Everest), I more than made up for it with general running fitness.  Most obstacles were spaced 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile apart, though it was over a mile to the first obstacle and entirely uphill.  If you run at least 25 to 30 miles a week and you have good recovery, you're fine.  Just expect to get pretty banged up...19 particpants were taken off the course by ambulence over two days!

    xor


      >> 19 particpants were taken off the course by ambulence over two days!

       

      Unlike "Wipe Out" you don't even have a shot of being on the teevee.

       

      Why do people like stuff like this?

       

        I suppose it is no different than a lot of races...in 2007 the Chicago Marathon included one death, 30 hospitalizations, and 400 people getting medical treatment.  And there aren't even obstacles in that race besides all the potholes on Michigan avenue!

        xor


          No, it really IS different than most races.

           

            The 30/30 workout is best used to improve vvo2max (speed) and anaerobic tolerance. It should be done at close to vo2max pace. This opens a big can of worms about how to measure vo2max pace, but the important thing to note is that the scientist who published information supporting this workout used roughly mile pace as vo2max. This workout, as 200s, was used by the University of Oregon and other programs like it long before this scientist did any research on it.

             

            Your best bet for optimizing the workout is to first figure out your mile race pace. Then figure out how many meters that pace would take you in 30 seconds. Go mark a course for however many meters that is -- probably less than 200m, but more than 100m. Now run that distance at about mile pace. Do some easy running for 30 seconds and then run it again at mile pace. Keep doing this until you are no longer able to run close to mile pace for the repetition.

             

            The workout can become extremely anaerobic and is thus best done within 6-8 weeks of racing. Many coaches believe anaerobic development can be maximized in 6-8 weeks of training. You may stress yourself out if you do more than one hard anaerobic workout in a 10-14 day period. Most people have success doing something like this every other week for a few weeks in the month or so prior to competition.

             

            Considering that a) the effects of anaerobic training are lost in a few weeks if not maintained and b) it's difficult to do high level aerobic training while doing killer anaerobic workouts on other day, most coaches reserve this training for later in the racing season and do not do it in the offseason.

             

            Year-round, a close substitute is to simply do strides or 200m repeats with ample rest (whether as strides, 12x200 with big rest, or fartlek with big rest). You get the same neuromuscular benefit and the workout is more repeatable. It may not improve how well you handle oxygen, but will at least make your stride more efficient, which can lead to overall improvement.

            dallasboycows


              thanks for the replies spaniel.  And those who say I'm overthinking things, I think you perhaps are underthinking things.  Certain workouts can have much better results with less effort and strain. 

               

              say if you do 5x3 at vv02max with 3 mins recovery.  Or kenyans who do mile repeats with very very little recovery.  If you are at this vo2max for a large portion of your workout you are going to have much much better results than if you go out and run 10-20 400's and only spend 20% of the time at vo2max because you don't have pace/recovery right. 

               

              It is a science and those who don't think it is are kidding themselves.  Sure you can follow generic plans and you will improve but to maximize gains in the shortest time, it would be wise to do the MOST productive workouts.  There is a reason all of these studies are done, millions of dollars spent on lab testing, running shoes, clothes such as tights that help runners, it's because they increase performance whether extreme in cases of some training or marginally in the case of runners gear sometimes. 

               

              I'm just trying to learn as much as I can, not for right now because I'm just training for the mudder but I'd like to get back into my college shape after that and start competing on a more serious level.  I think I have the potential as I was a 15:45 5k runner, 4:26 miler in hs with about 25 mpw and absolutely no speedwork in cross country season.  just straight 5 miles a day as our basketball coach also coached cross country.  We did have a phenom track coach though.

               

              as for the mudder, I do think I can run fast in between the intervals.  I'm able to recover quite fast compared to most people between intervals and am able to maintain vo2max pace longer than the average person.  I've brought my 5k down from 21:00 to 17:45 in 3 months and feel by tough mudder time it will be mid 16:00's which isn't phenom but for 4 months of training in 7 years I've progressed.  I know 5k is nothing like a 10 mile run.  I just use that as reference as it is my favorite race. 

               

              Again spaniel thanks for your positive advice.  I'm amazed at how much you know everytime I read your posts. 

              dallasboycows


                For what it is worth, I did Tough Mudder in Wisconsin last weekend.  I trained purely by my regular running regimen and while times aren't released yet, I suspect I was in the top 5% to qualify for the World's Toughest Mudder in December.  I'm not particularly strong so while I struggled with some of the obstacles that are pure upper body strength (Berlin Walls, Mount Everest), I more than made up for it with general running fitness.  Most obstacles were spaced 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile apart, though it was over a mile to the first obstacle and entirely uphill.  If you run at least 25 to 30 miles a week and you have good recovery, you're fine.  Just expect to get pretty banged up...19 particpants were taken off the course by ambulence over two days!

                 

                 

                thanks very good advice.  I was in the marines.  I'll be fine.  Probably not all 19, but I'm sure a percentage of those had no business being out there to begin with. 

                 

                Thanks for the advice and info. 


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  Maybe it's all about the best tights and the fastest running shoes, and running the exact right pace, for some people, but not for all of us.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                    I didn't say not to do any running.  In fact, I stated that the running should be an integral part of the training.  I firmly believe the OP should focus more on just running and less on getting into fancy workouts that have long names.

                     

                    I suggested including the obstacles because I have done more obstacle courses than I care to think about.  And yes, having a basic level of running fitness is absolutely crucial, but you also need to have the overall stamina and strength to be able to haul your tired ass up and over a cargo net while covered in mud.  If you come to an obstacle and have to stop and wait, that's a physical transition that just running isn't going to prepare you for completely.  Running a lot is an absolute necessity, but I believe in specificity as well.

                    I was talking to Rod Dixon this spring and he was telling me the story, when he was in Stockholm with John Walker, Tony Polhill and Dick Quax; they ran 4 X 1500m relay and set the world record.  It was a 2-day meet and the meet promotor came to them the day after and asked them if any of them wanted to run another race for $500.  "What event?" Rod asked.  "10000 or 800."  Well, Rod thought, 10000 is a bit too much, 800 is too fast...  "What else have you got?" he asked.  "Well, we have steeplechase..."  So went Rod's first ever 3000m steeplechase.  He ran 8:29.0 and set the New Zealand's national record at the time.  Never done any hurdle practice or water jump. 

                    dallasboycows


                      well i decided to go with the harder 5 x 3/3's today.  BRUTAL.  my tendonitis is flared up a tad and I damn near puked.  I know it keeps you at VO2max longer than almost any workout i do but if the difference is minimal, damn the 30/30's till exhaustion were sooooo much easier and less stressful on my body. 

                      123