Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 572 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

     

    I'd like to, but due to (long) covid I've not run a single step since February 10th, so I can't comply with forum rule #2 (0 miles in no time isn't a weekly, is it?). Have fun on the trails!

     

    MTA:

    Steve - WTF? You really seem to have a subscription for bad luck with your marathons. Hope your health comes around in time.

     

    Being encouraged and being required aren’t the same.   Thankfully pointing this out is too confusing so we’ll let you be right about it so it’s easier to understand.  Keep posting even though rule 2 CLEARY means running and walking isn’t accepted.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 53.37 

    5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

    dktrotter


    Dorothea

      Ha ha, the server being out of service yesterday meant one more day to catch up. I may be posting less frequently for a little while though, but I’m excited to see how people do in their April races! 

       

      Re: race and report thanks all for the interest in my report! Sorry again that it wasn’t immediately available to everyone (I’ve been an online recluse for so long, it takes a while to change all the settings). I know it’s really long… I am generally not that long in my recaps. But it was my first continuous ultra, so I wanted as many notes as possible for next time. But as you’ve noticed anyway, I’m a verbose writer. I have to drag my students kicking and screaming to write 1000-1200 words, but my personal problem has always been writing too much. A lot of my lengthiness comes from not editing; in the words of Mark Twain, “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.” 

       

      And thanks for the congratulatory words! Yes, it did feel good to know I’d placed after all. [edited this section a smidge] And while I do feel for all the DNFinishers (19/42), it would be interesting to find out more about what caused that, and whether some people are more suited than others for certain race conditions. One could put some of the blame on the RD, apparently, because he was not prepared for the hot day (March in Florida is usually actually quite pleasant) and the ice was not consistently restocked (I got lucky on that front), but yeah. I thought he did a great job. wcrunner, I’ve heard of and seen ice-bandanas before, but by the time I realized it was going to be as hot as it was, I didn’t have time to acquire or make one. I will for next time! Flavio, the watch dying was probably a good thing for me, mentally (except for getting lost), but it is a shame I’ll never know just how much or how fast I ran at the end. 

       

      Mark, I realized I was not very commiserating in my last post. I do hope it’s not serious and that you don’t have to miss your race! And I hope it’s nice autumny weather. 

      Steve, I was also thinking about how you’ve picked up marathon training since 2020 as well, and that will usually wipe out your immune system—but only until your body finally catches up, which can sometimes take years. The Hobbiton Half-Marathon sounds like a fun run. 

       

      JMac, this is late, but I would think marathon —> half is better than 5k/10 —> half. You just don’t do enough of the endurance stuff in 5k/10k training. 

       

      Andy, this is super late, but nice race recap. Good thing you showed up so early! And I too have to pee multiple times before a race, mostly due to nerves. Way to win that battle with the wind for the last part; and if you’re not totally exhausted at the end, you’re not doing it right. Well done! And the post-race recovery sounds almost perfect. 

      Also, when I finally decide to get a dog (can’t right now because I go abroad for 2-3 months a year), I’m getting a Vizsla. I’d just have to worry about it getting eaten by an alligator on some of my routes.  

      Re: Sweet 16 comparison, Florida Atlantic (which is where I teach) just made it to the 16, and now Final Four for the first (or second?) time in their history. I didn’t care about basketball before this, and still don’t, but campus is kind of wild right now. 

      Re: wife’s training, like RP said, she just needs to slowly increase the distances and continue cycling. That way she keeps her aerobic base and slowly builds those miles.

       

      CK, re R8 question… I used to have an HSA, so I still have a bit of HSA cash. Good to know! Maybe I’ll go and use that. Sorry to read about your funk from a few weeks ago, but glad to read you’re feeling better now. Solid sleep can make such a difference. 

       

      Flavio, it’s cool you signed up for Valencia! Lots of winter marathon action :-) Sounds like a good, competitive race. I like the 8 maxims you set. I think that’s going to set you up for success! I also missed saying this, but I liked the creative pepper-spray solution, even if I doubt it will be very effective. And great week last week!  And yes, I actually started drafting my posts in my notes on my computer, and then copying it over to the forum. This allows me to start writing and go back and forth, use split screens to see what others wrote and my reply at the same time, and so on. I just didn’t do it last time and that’s what I got for it. 

       

      Same to you, Fishy. Great week, especially considering you ran a Half PR not that long ago. Also, you know you can use strava for free, right? :-) I refuse to pay for the subscription, unless someone can convince me it’s worth it. 

       

      RP, you get 7 weeks of vacation?! That’s more than my dad gets, and he’s been working for 45 years! Smart to take half days for training, though :-) But I imagine your wife isn’t thrilled by it. At least you’re making Boston a racecation. 

       

      Re running after eating, it depends on what you eat. A full meal? That’s tougher. Eating something lighter right beforehand? Should be manageable for anything but a race or hard workout. Then I do prefer 2-3 hours. But even for a marathon I’d eat 1 to 1.5 hours beforehand. 

       

      Mmerkle, the strength training will no doubt come in handy. And mileage isn’t the only thing that makes you faster. Good workouts do, and you’ve been getting those. Plus, sounds like all your niggles from earlier in the cycle have gone away? Stay cool. You’re almost at that starting line, and you’re prepared! Also it’s too soon to tell what the weather will be like on race day. 10-days out from Hungryland, it was looking like a mini-cool front! This is the hardest part of the training. Keep your chin up. And 15 mph wind is doable… it won’t be head-on for the full thing. Just remember to use something anti-chafing, as the rain will make you chafe, and you don’t want any distractions. 

       

      Recovering from the race. Going to just run when I feel like it for a while and try to stay active, build a good strength-training regimen and whatnot. Have my eye on a 5k April 23rd that I may just jump into to see where I’m at, fitness wise. But I’m purposefully letting my fitness go a bit, so that I can fully recover and build back stronger for the fall/winter season. Weather is about to turn to real shit (80/75 dew point is about to be the new pre-dawn average), so no need to put myself through grueling workouts. Plus I’ve neglected my work so much for these races. It’s time to shift gears. Was looking into flights to Sacramento. It’s expensive!! Making me reconsider CIM. 

      Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

      Last race: Community 5K, March 2nd. Speed test run with 2 walk breaks. Went pretty well.  

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

         

        Check out some Boston forums and race reports.  The biggest mistake most runners make at Boston is going out too fast and crashing on the Newton Hills.  The hills themselves are not that daunting, but because you have a net elevation drop heading into Newton, then the four major hills from 17-21 miles, one can easily cover those first 17 miles way too fast.

         

        Going out too fast is definitely something I’ve heard lots of people do and I’ve talked about it with a run buddy ALSO doing it. I keep saying how everyone around us is capable of a sub 3, and we’re also capable of going out too fast and blowing up. Sinc eCIM has a relay this one is different because EVERYONE is running the marathon. I try to keep pace +\- 5 seconds per the self imposed ‘rule’ JMac so greatly provided for my first sub 3 attempt.  It helps keep me into a narrow window of ‘THIS IS AMAZIIIIINNNG!!!!’ And ‘pick it up.’

         

        looks like the hills start after the first station, and thei look to be about 1/2 mile long.  Hopefully I’m in shape to crush them, and apparently I’m NOT expected to be going up them at PR marathon pace.

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 53.37 

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        SteveChCh


        Hot Weather Complainer

          Flavio - I don’t think I’ll be running easy today, I could, but it would completely suck. It’s getting worse every day, and unfortunately it’s moving week so no option for complete rest. Hoping by Friday enough is done to relax a bit. The first really cold weather of the year is probably not helping either, 24C on Monday became 2C with wind chill yesterday.

           

          I got my bloods done post-Melbourne and all was good. We actually get heaps of sun, especially in the part of NZ where I am. I appreciate you suggesting ideas though!

           

          Dorothea - I can pinpoint one thing that may have messed with my immune system. Since that thing that can’t be mentioned I’ve been sicker more frequently than ever. I know correlation does not equal causation but I’m not the only one experiencing this, not by a long shot.

           

          Keen - Monster week! The 3s are great. No better, I’ll be off training until an improvement…first time since Covid, a year ago almost to the day.

          5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

           

          2024 Races:

          Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

          Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

          Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

          Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024


          Pain is my friend

            dk- Yahooo you did it. Loved your RR. I wrote reports like that at one time. I think if I really wrote out the details of a 100 miler, it could be 5 pages. I don't know if that would be a good read. I would say only half the courses I have run are marked well. Many of my races I have done before and I know my way. Getting off course or lost sucks. The heat came make or break a good day. I am so happy for you. What's next?

             

            wcrunner2- I should get myself an ice bandana. I try to avoid the hot races. I do better in them than I did 5 years ago.

             

            RP- Nice training as always. It is easy to get carried away in the first 7 mile of Boston and go too fast. My rookie mistake was trying to dodge and weave past people. Waited so much energy.

             

            mmerkle- Sorry to hear your race weather doesn't look great. Wind sucks. I don't mind the rain. If it is wet you wont have to worry about over heating.

             

            Running and eating come easy to me as an ultra runner. I can eat what I want. I still keep to more of a liquid diet when racing. But will eat pizza during an ultra if its there.

             

            I have bounce back quickly from my 12 hour race. Took it easy last week with 25 miles. Took some of my extra time and started hitting the guy. I hope I keep going 3 times a week.

            ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

            Bear 100 22:08 2021 

            Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

            St George marathon Oct 2:58

            ATY 24 130.969 2022 2nd

             

            Pulse endurance 12 hour 76.22 1ST CR

            July Backyard ultra 22 yards Win

            Sept Bear 100 24:08

             

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              I just discovered there are no drop bags at the starting line, and people are saying to bring something to eat. Did Boston EVER have a gear check?

               

              why is this race so great? It's turning into an East Coast CIM at this point. Expensive hotel stay. School bus ride to the start. No gear check. three aid stations, unpredictable weather, and a certified course.

               

              krash yeah I just listened to a coach on a podcast say the first 10km is pretty packed and moving around people is kind of worthless. HOPEFULLY people just go around me as I'll PROBABLY be going much slower than most expect me to.

               

              dk I'm allowed to have 240 hours of vacation roll over. I am not given 7 weeks of vacation. Due to COVID 19, and having an infant, I did not go many places for a while. When I worked from home I could accomplish a lot of things and make up time working in an office doesn't allow.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 53.37 

              5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

              CommanderKeen


              Cobra Commander Keen

                I just discovered there are no drop bags at the starting line, and people are saying to bring something to eat. Did Boston EVER have a gear check?

                 

                why is this race so great? It's turning into an East Coast CIM at this point. Expensive hotel stay. School bus ride to the start. No gear check. three aid stations, unpredictable weather, and a certified course.

                 

                 

                I understood all of these references! Maybe I'll stick to CIM. At least there the time difference from Oklahoma works in my favor.

                5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                 

                Upcoming Races:

                 

                 

                wcrunner2


                Are we there, yet?

                  I just discovered there are no drop bags at the starting line, and people are saying to bring something to eat. Did Boston EVER have a gear check?

                   

                  why is this race so great? It's turning into an East Coast CIM at this point. Expensive hotel stay. School bus ride to the start. No gear check. three aid stations, unpredictable weather, and a certified course.

                   

                   

                  From stories I've heard Boston has changed a great deal from when I ran it from 1970-72.  Part of what made it so great back then was its history, the oldest annually contested marathon beginning the year after the first modern marathon at the 1896 Olympics and deliberately patterned as much as possible after the first Olympic Marathon course.  It was by far the largest marathon in the US though it didn't reach 1000 entries until about 1968-69.  It attracted the best marathon runners in the US and Canada, and then some of the best in the world. It had its traditions and quirks with the checkpoints being at town centers along the way by the train stations rather than at standard distances, and then there was the screaming tunnel of Wellesley College students at roughly the halfway point.  The strategic placement of the Newton Hills created amble opportunity for race drama epitomized in the 1936 race between eventual winner Ellison "Tarzan" Brown and Johnny Kelley that gave Heartbreak Hill its name.  It also had little to no competition from other marathons until the running boom in the early '70s after Shorter's win at the 1972 Olympics. New York was first run in 1970, Berlin in 1974, Chicago in 1977, and London in 1981. Boston lost some of its luster because it was the last major marathon to offer prize money and had been losing top runners to others that did.  The main attraction now seems to be not actually running Boston, but running a BQ which has come to be a status symbol of sorts.  That in itself is somewhat ironic as the initial reason for a qualifying time was simply to weed out people who entered but were ill prepared to run a marathon.  The initial BQ time of 3:30 was roughly the average marathon time then and you could also qualify by running qualifying times for other distances from 10 miles and up.

                   2024 Races:

                        03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                        05/11 - D3 50K
                        05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                        06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                   

                   

                       

                  Fishyone


                    RP- The bag check never came back after the bombing.  Bring throwaway clothes.  Plenty of food, cliff bars and gatorade/water in the village.  It is TRULY a pain in the ass race!!  Unfortunately if you're a runner living in Boston you kinda have to run it but it is logistically my least favorite marathon of all times.

                     

                    You can bring a clear bag with your food/hydration/stuff but it all gets thrown away in Hopkinton.  One year I was talking to a runner who was decked out in his brand new expo gear.  He had no idea he couldn't get any of it back!  I don't know if he actually ran the race or just went home with his gear.......

                     

                    I just discovered there are no drop bags at the starting line, and people are saying to bring something to eat. Did Boston EVER have a gear check?

                     

                    why is this race so great? It's turning into an East Coast CIM at this point. Expensive hotel stay. School bus ride to the start. No gear check. three aid stations, unpredictable weather, and a certified course.

                     

                    krash yeah I just listened to a coach on a podcast say the first 10km is pretty packed and moving around people is kind of worthless. HOPEFULLY people just go around me as I'll PROBABLY be going much slower than most expect me to.

                     

                    dk I'm allowed to have 240 hours of vacation roll over. I am not given 7 weeks of vacation. Due to COVID 19, and having an infant, I did not go many places for a while. When I worked from home I could accomplish a lot of things and make up time working in an office doesn't allow.

                    5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

                      I just discovered there are no drop bags at the starting line, and people are saying to bring something to eat. Did Boston EVER have a gear check?

                       

                      why is this race so great? It's turning into an East Coast CIM at this point. Expensive hotel stay. School bus ride to the start. No gear check. three aid stations, unpredictable weather, and a certified course.

                       

                       

                       

                      The race is not great because of anything to do with the course profile or logistics. It's great because it's the Boston Marathon. It's an iconic event with a storied history, and only the top tier of diehard recreational runners get to run it. It's like the Olympics for hobbyjoggers. For that weekend the whole city mobilizes around the race and the runners. It's like attending a runner convention - you meet hardcore runners from all over the country (and the world), and chat endlessly about running and racing. If that doesn't do it for you, that's fine, it's not for everyone. But to me that's what it's all about. The last 4 miles of the race were fucking miserable for me, but every other part of my trip was awesome, the highlight of my running career.

                       

                      Personally my CIM experience was the exact opposite - I just went to do a job. I showed up Saturday afternoon in time for packet pickup, and left Sunday not long after finishing. Also, I rode to the start in a fancy bus.

                      Dave

                         It is TRULY a pain in the ass race!!  Unfortunately if you're a runner living in Boston you kinda have to run it but it is logistically my least favorite marathon of all times.

                         

                         

                        Have you run NYCM?

                        Dave

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          RP- The bag check never came back after the bombing.  Bring throwaway clothes.  Plenty of food, cliff bars and gatorade/water in the village.  It is TRULY a pain in the ass race!!  Unfortunately if you're a runner living in Boston you kinda have to run it but it is logistically my least favorite marathon of all times.

                           

                          You can bring a clear bag with your food/hydration/stuff but it all gets thrown away in Hopkinton.  One year I was talking to a runner who was decked out in his brand new expo gear.  He had no idea he couldn't get any of it back!  I don't know if he actually ran the race or just went home with his gear.......

                           

                           

                          Yeah, I don't get this. Spectators can still bring stuff, but runners have to suffer.

                           

                          I'd cross the start line, uber from timing mat to timing mat, and jog the final few miles in my gear if I was that runner.

                           

                           

                          clear bag to the start with throw away clothes. Awesome.

                           

                          dave wait...I thought NYC Marathon was for die hard recreational runners. I too left shortly after finishing West Coast Boston. Rang the bell, found some friends, and had to rush out of the hotel because they had NO late checkout.

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 53.37 

                          5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                             

                            From stories I've heard Boston has changed a great deal from when I ran it from 1970-72.  Part of what made it so great back then was its history, the oldest annually contested marathon beginning the year after the first modern marathon at the 1896 Olympics and deliberately patterned as much as possible after the first Olympic Marathon course.  It was by far the largest marathon in the US though it didn't reach 1000 entries until about 1968-69.  It attracted the best marathon runners in the US and Canada, and then some of the best in the world. It had its traditions and quirks with the checkpoints being at town centers along the way by the train stations rather than at standard distances, and then there was the screaming tunnel of Wellesley College students at roughly the halfway point.  The strategic placement of the Newton Hills created amble opportunity for race drama epitomized in the 1936 race between eventual winner Ellison "Tarzan" Brown and Johnny Kelley that gave Heartbreak Hill its name.  It also had little to no competition from other marathons until the running boom in the early '70s after Shorter's win at the 1972 Olympics. New York was first run in 1970, Berlin in 1974, Chicago in 1977, and London in 1981. Boston lost some of its luster because it was the last major marathon to offer prize money and had been losing top runners to others that did.  The main attraction now seems to be not actually running Boston, but running a BQ which has come to be a status symbol of sorts.  That in itself is somewhat ironic as the initial reason for a qualifying time was simply to weed out people who entered but were ill prepared to run a marathon.  The initial BQ time of 3:30 was roughly the average marathon time then and you could also qualify by running qualifying times for other distances from 10 miles and up.

                             

                            interseting. So is this also why Boston, London, Chicago and Berlin are the "major" marathons?

                             

                            The goal of BQ-ing was something I'd worked at for a long time. It was a really hard thing, and I'm partly expecting the image in my head from 2016-19 to come true.

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 53.37 

                            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                               

                               

                              dave wait...I thought NYC Marathon was for die hard recreational runners. 

                               

                              No, that one's for celebrities and 5/6-hour bucket-listers. Boston's still unique in being restricted to time-qualifiers (other than charity runners).

                              Dave

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                 

                                why is this race so great? It's turning into an East Coast CIM at this point. Expensive hotel stay. School bus ride to the start. No gear check. three aid stations, unpredictable weather, and a certified course.

                                 

                                It's CIM's egotistical older sibling.  The hotel stay costs a lot more and CIM weather is generally a pretty good bet.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.