Forums >General Running>Question on BQ training
Will Run for Donuts!
Careful if you use a Pfitzinger plan and do his tempo workouts. He has you doing up to 7-mile tempos, which is a solid workout if you are a sub-3 guy, but a lot more brutal if you are going by current LT pace for a 3:45 guy. E.g. If you call LT slightly slower than 10k pace, and try to run 7 miles of that... you get the picture. Pfitzinger is great, and I recommend his plans too, but here and there it's clear he is thinking of faster runners.
Careful if you use a Pfitzinger plan and do his tempo workouts. He has you doing up to 7-mile tempos, which is a solid workout if you are a sub-3 guy, but a lot more brutal if you are going by current LT pace for a 3:45 guy. E.g. If you call LT slightly slower than 10k pace, and try to run 7 miles of that... you get the picture.
Pfitzinger is great, and I recommend his plans too, but here and there it's clear he is thinking of faster runners.
I'm not clear on your cautioning statement here. Do you think a 7-mile tempo run is excessive for slower runners? I understand that a 7-mile tempo run isn't easy, but then, "not easy" is about what I'd expect marathon training to be.
If LT pace is an hour race pace, and your 10k is ~60 minutes, then your LT pace is 10k pace so you'd be trying to run 7 miles at 10k race pace (which is really hard :P). If your 10k is 48-50 minutes, your 7 mile tempo is very close to a 7 mile race all out.
However, if you can run a 10 miler in an hour, your LT pace is 10 mile race pace, and your 10k is closer to 35-36 minutes, running a 7 mile tempo in 42 minutes is much more reasonable.
Know thyself.
7 mile tempo in 42 minutes is much more reasonable.
But still really, really tough. This is basically me: my 10 mile PR is 60 minutes and I've never managed (or even attempted) a 42 minute tempo run at 6 pace. Not even close.
I like to use a more liberal definition of "tempo runs" than Pfitz or Daniels. Longer tempo runs should not be run at LT. I'm doing a 42 minute tempo run, it's probably at no more than half marathon pace. A 60 minute tempo run would have to be at marathon pace.
Runners run
A Saucy Wench
there is no way as a 3:45 marathoner I was doing a 7 mile tempo at that pace.
Now, granted, UnionBlue is at a different part of the training spectrum from where I was or where MikeyMike is when he talks his PR's vs. his tempos.. I think it is probably more reasonable that he will find faster tempo paces rather quickly. He's not anywhere near his "fight for every PR" stage, my guess is he is in the "every race is a new PR" stage for awhile here.
I would suggest planning some shorter races over the next several months...10K's are good, do them without a taper, just sub them in for a tempo run. I think you'll get a better idea of how you are progressing and how your paces can be shifting. It's also good practice.
I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets
"When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7
Sultan of slug
From my recollection, that's consistent with what Daniels says. He provides a table somewhere that tells you how much to add to your "T" pace for tempo runs that exceed 20 minutes.
In response to the OP: Both camps of respondents here are correct, and I they acknowledge as much. Yes, you can keep doing the killer mileage you're currently doing and shave a ton of time off your marathon finish. But if you're getting sick of just long, steady miles, you'd also gain a lot by reading Pfitzinger or Daniels and giving one of their plans a shot.
Also: Although the idea is that LSD isn't particularly stressful, you can leave yourself vulnerable to injury by doing it exclusively for long periods of time. Variation is good, and faster running will help you build strength that you can then use to build an even bigger base if you wish.
At least, that's what I read nowadays. I could just be projecting my own desire to move out of base building/injury recovery and into a faster training phase...
If it is of any help I've done a series of interviews with runners who have secured a BQ on my blog, including many of the regulars here on RA.
You can see their responses here:
http://miloandthecalf.com/the-bq-questionnaire/
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