Forums >Racing>2012 Sub-3:00 Marathon Goal Thread
2:43:58 provisional for me. Significantly better than I expected but I'll take it! 1:21/1:23 roughly. A tough last few miles - but no surprise there!
Damn! Nice job!
2:56:33 for me. Went for the <2:50 and paid the price...
Wow!
Congrats RothRunner, that's a serious pb!
Nice job flatfooter and roth runner!
What were the weather conditions?
Flatfooter what was your splits?
Also, how about a tally of how much calories you took in total?
(For my road marathon -- 3 hours-- in May I took in 3 gels and some energy drink -- say 500 total calories)
Weather was perfect, 40 degrees, partly cloudy, wind not a factor. Official Splits were:
2:14:05
The timing mat for 13.1 was at least 100 yards before the 13.1 marker, so according to my watch the half splits were actually 1:27:02 and 1:29:31. So I positive split about 2:30. Calorie intake was 2 gels per hour plus 2-3 cups of powerade/hr. So probably about 650 calories. My problem was that I had nothing predicting a <2:50 time but I went for it anyway.
Hello all, my first post here. Doing the Frankfurt Marathon, 28 October (just under 3 weeks time), and am hoping to go sub-3. Too late at this point to get much running advice which will help me, but I'm hoping someone can give me a psychological boost, and reassure me, from experience, that sub-3 is possible even though on paper it looks seriously over-optimistic...
I'm 52, have done 11 marathons, the best being 3:08 in Reims 4 years ago. I did a rather hilly one (by local standards - it's pretty flat round here) in April this year in a time 20 seconds slower than my PR, which I was very pleased with considering I didn't think I was that well trained. I would say I'm now much fitter than I was back then, and have put in lots of high quality training. 8 days ago I did a 10K race in 37:35, and this last weekend I did a 5K in 18:12, (and would probably have got inside 18 if the 3-lap course hadn't got so congested). I did 18:04 a couple of months ago.
So I reckon my speed is there. What is missing, and rather badly so, is overall weekly mileage. I've done 2-3 weeks over 50, a handful in the 40-50 range, but overall my average over the last 6 months has been about 30 mpw. I have just been too busy to get out and run enough miles, so I've concentrated instead on trying to optimize running economy, etc. In the last couple of weeks I've been trying run as many marathon pace miles as I can, to get my body used to that precise pace - last week I ran a total of 40 miles, with an average pace of 6:41.
Now, pretty well all training programs I've seen suggest that you need to be doing a minimum of 50-60mpw to run a sub-3, and unfortunately, I'm sure that's right. I'm just hoping that there are some people out there who can tell me that they have managed it on a lot less. Given that 'all' I have to do is to shave 9 minutes off a time I did 6 months ago, when I was not nearly so well trained, it doesn't sound out of the question. But I can't argue with all those training programs! I do wonder, though, whether I may have some natural aptitude as a runner which might buy me something - 5 years ago, I ran a pretty comfortable 3:11 marathon on the back of training averaging no more than 21 miles per week.
It sounds like you have all the work done except for 1 thing - Taper
I always break the marathon into 3 critical (Equal importance, but not equal amount of time spent) areas: 1) Training - This is the price of admission to your goal - You have done the training and are plenty fit to break 3. 2) Taper - Reducing quantity, while keeping just enough quality to keep the pop in your legs. Taper is different for everyone - 2 weeks or 3? How much speed? and 3) Race pacing - Many race goals are lost in the 1st 4-8 miles, but none are acheived. Do not get greedy - do not "Bank time"
On pacing - I am not strict to my pace splits. I like to run a general effort level and it might mean my mile splits are 6:42-6:52. Some miles migh be close to 7 if it is a harder uphill mile and some close to 6:30 if a downhill. But I keep the range of 6:42-6:52 ~ If I hit this range I would not even thing about ~ Just try to relax and stay smooth ~ expending as little effort as possible to stay in this range. If you run faster - Ask youself is there was a reason (Net downhill or wind at back), if not back off slightly. If you are slower - same routine (Uphill or into wind) see if you can pick up effort slightly.
Now that I have run a lot of marathons - I tend to see where my pace is at the 1st 1-2 miles and then just relax and run that effort level. I just check once in awhile, but not every mile.
Wildcard = Weather, I hope you get decent weather!
In the race relax, stay possitive and smile - You would be amazed at how much this will get you over the hump in bad patches.
Then the last 10k - Convince youself you are the toughest badass in the race and you laugh in the face or race pain!
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
[in reply to DoppelBock above]
Wow, that's pretty encouraging that you think I've done the training I need!
As regards the taper, yes, I'm taking that very seriously - I'm not going to make the mistake of trying to squeeze in some last minute fast or long runs to make up for what was missed earlier in the program. I've seen other people ruin months of preparation by going into marathons tired.
And as for pacing, fortunately that is something I do pretty well, on the whole - I tend to keep a pretty rock steady pace throughout a race (apart from allowances made for hills, headwinds, etc). In fact, people often commend me on my pacing at the end of races, which I always find kind of puzzling, as it's far from rocket science. I have a GPS watch, I work out what average pace I need to run at, and then I keep my pace to around that figure, checking on the watch every fewf minutes. I'll go faster down the hills, and slower up the hills, but always coming back to that average after a while.
For this marathon, my plan is to aim for an average pace of 6:45. I could maybe slow it down to 6:48-6:49 but I wouldn't risk any slower than that because of GPS inaccuracies (I wouldn't be too pleased if I crossed the line in 3:00:01 because my watch had told me I was ahead of the target pace - it happens).
Robin!!! 2:43 ... that is an enormous improvement on your previous marathon best. Implies more improvement ahead. Congratulations.
Ken
Nice job flatfooter and roth runner! What were the weather conditions? Flatfooter what was your splits? Also, how about a tally of how much calories you took in total? (For my road marathon -- 3 hours-- in May I took in 3 gels and some energy drink -- say 500 total calories)
Perfect Weather at about 45-50 and a still wind. The course was undulating rather than flat.
I had 2 gels and probably about 2/3rds of a bottle of energy drink in total so about 300 calories and drank to thirst (a couple of sips every water station).
My chip time in the end was 2:44:03, so I guess I must have stopped to a walk before the second chip mat beyond the line - doh!
& thanks all!
Garmin inaccuracies should *never* cause anyone to miss their goal time. If you do, you're not using your Garmin right. You can't just try to maintain a desired average pace, or assume that the total mileage on your Garmin will be 26.2.
The way to use a Garmin in a race so that you get full benefit of pace readout and no risk is simply to use lap pace, not total average pace, and check your actual splits at the mile markers (or 5k, or however often you like to check). This is what I do:
* Turn off autolap.
* Display total time, lap pace, and total distance (which will generally be high).
* Manually hit the lap button at each mile marker.
* Each mile, try to keep the lap pace readout a few seconds under target pace for that mile.
* Keep my next goal split (total elapsed time at next mile marker) in mind, compare actual split to this, and adjust target pace for the next mile.
This is not rocket science, but so many people really don't use their Garmins correctly.
Oh, and good luck! With your recent race times, and if you can do 40 miles of 6:41 in a week, you seem to be in good shape.
ultramarathon/triathlete
I'm racing NYCM next month. I'd like to go sub:3 (PR is ~3:07; PR for NYCM ~3:16. This will be my 7th NYCM).
Yesterday (and 2 weeks ago) I ran very enjoyable training marathons (i.e. not a race). Both were neg splits. Sept = 3:23, Oct = 3:22. Both felt easy, no wall, no bonk, no hunger, pushed the last few miles into low sevens, high sixes. Lots of energy left afterwards.
My 5K race from Saturday = 18:17.
Recent half marathon = 1:23. A "marathon time estimator" predicts I'll race 2:56 or 2:58, but who knows if those are accurate.
I log ~60-70 miles/ week (2x weekly long runs of 12 - 15, once-a-month marathons, weekly speed work, random other runs). I think the milage is there and has been for a few years now. I've run around 30 marathons (10 of them this year).
Suggestions on how I should pace NYCM?
Should I try to hit mile 9 in just a hair over an hour and keep it steady? Should I start off around 7s and ease my way faster?
If I don't go sub:3 I won't be sad (I've been going for volume this year) but it sure would be nice.
Thoughts?
HTFU? Why not!
USATF Coach
Empire Tri Club CoachGatorade Endurance Team
I'm racing NYCM next month. I'd like to go sub:3 (PR is ~3:07; PR for NYCM ~3:16. This will be my 7th NYCM). Yesterday (and 2 weeks ago) I ran very enjoyable training marathons (i.e. not a race). Both were neg splits. Sept = 3:23, Oct = 3:22. Both felt easy, no wall, no bonk, no hunger, pushed the last few miles into low sevens, high sixes. Lots of energy left afterwards. My 5K race from Saturday = 18:17. Recent half marathon = 1:23. A "marathon time estimator" predicts I'll race 2:56 or 2:58, but who knows if those are accurate. I log ~60-70 miles/ week (2x weekly long runs of 12 - 15, once-a-month marathons, weekly speed work, random other runs). I think the milage is there and has been for a few years now. I've run around 30 marathons (10 of them this year). Suggestions on how I should pace NYCM? Should I try to hit mile 9 in just a hair over an hour and keep it steady? Should I start off around 7s and ease my way faster? If I don't go sub:3 I won't be sad (I've been going for volume this year) but it sure would be nice. Thoughts?
Obviously good rest and good taper.
I think if your goal is <3 I would try to run 6:45 mpm and do the first half in around 1:29. DO NOT run any miles under 6:40. Try to keep an even pace. That's what the best runners do. If you run your first mile in 7:00 that's OK but the rest should be at goal pace.
I think your training is enough for <3. The last 5 miles will hurt -- be prepared.
Caveat: I'm not an expert and have only done one road marathon (<3)
I Ain't Dead Yet!
Looks like I'm up this weekend. Not sure what I should consider for a goal. The last 5 weeks have not been stellar for training (family issues have been difficult...long story) so I don't feel like I'm in PR shape. Problem is it's nearly impossible for me to line up for a race and refrain from racing. So, I'll probably go out at PR pace (6:25 or a shade faster) and either have a stellar race or epic implosion.
Either way, I'm gonna drink a whole lot of beer with friends Saturday night.
My hair is gone and I'm almost blindThe days of my youth are far behindMy neck is stiff, I can't turn my headCan't hear one-half that's being saidAnd this is the message I want you to getI'm still a-kicking, and I ain't dead yet.
Looks like I'm up this weekend. Not sure what I should consider for a goal. The last 5 weeks have not been stellar for training (family issues have been difficult...long story) so I don't feel like I'm in PR shape. Problem is it's nearly impossible for me to line up for a race and refrain from racing. So, I'll probably go out at PR pace (6:25 or a shade faster) and either have a stellar race or epic implosion. Either way, I'm gonna drink a whole lot of beer with friends Saturday night.
I've taken that approach at races before and had a great time. Went into a marathon last year thinking I was under trained and would just run a slow one. Race day I decided I can't just run slowly to minimize later suffering, I'd run a fast and fun first half and just suffer the second half. Ended up with a BQ and a lot more fun of a race than I expected, and had a great time. I bet you have a great time and run better than you think.