2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 496 times)

dktrotter


Dorothea

    I had my first session with my new coach today, and it's pretty exciting to see what is ahead.  Once my new heart rate monitor finally arrives we'll get really good data about my zones, and he explained how heart rate variability is a great stat which will show him when I'm getting close to hitting a wall but before I actually feel it.  I had a period about 8 weeks out from Melbourne where I was just exhausted for a week.

     

     

    Steve, that's exciting about the new coach and someone who will be able to inform you better about HR stats and how they play into training. My previous coach flat-out said he didn't know the best course of action based on HRs and left them alone... the most I got was a HR range to aim for in the easy and threshold runs. But HRV... can one measure that while running? I have an eye on it from day to day (mostly from sleep stats) to make sure I'm healthy and not heading into over-training or illness, but I didn't know one could actually use it to prevent hitting a wall in a race...

    Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

    Last race: Philadelphia Marathon Nov. 19. Great race conditions, though not personally. Eked out a sub 3:30 and a PR. 

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      "Tracks can be inaccurate"

       

      Bwah?  How so?  Granted, tracks can be something other than 400m (we have a few 320m tracks around here - so 5 laps = 1600m) but the whole point of the track is accuracy.

       

      RP - I keep wondering if part of the reason that your interval workouts don't seem to match your race performances is that you are doing them on marked roads or by GPS.  Your 1200s could indeed be longer than 1200m.

       

      Which, to others' point, is a great reason to just run by effort and time.

       

      Short distance.  If a track isn’t actually 400m it is inaccurate. Consistent, but inaccurate. At least I know I can make a lap on my home track in 45 seconds.  Too bad it’s 1/8 mile not 1/4 mile.

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      VDOT 55.2

      5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

         

        darkwave, I thought the same thing at first, but I think RP meant the GPS recording on the track. As in, the GPS calls out 400 meters but you're still at 350 with 50m left to go. At the same time, RP, you say that you like to train with the consistent inaccuracy of the GPS on the road, but let me warn you to have a pacing strategy in the race for when your watch is calling out a mile but the course mile marker is still 200 meters ahead of you. That really messed me up on Sunday- not the first time, but maybe the 19th-26th time. And I also don't know if you can know if you're hitting the paces if the watch is inaccurate. Old school timing on a track is much more reliable and a better way to know if you're hitting your marks. You can set up workouts to go by manual laps instead of automatic... This way you at least know what your times are when you can look at your stats at home.

         

        Ever race is inaccurate for me.   I had a friend tell me the CIM course was long and he knew he was going to have to run faster because the markings were off and it was inaccurate.  GPS is a reference. 
        also, it takes time to get to a track, and most here aren’t open to the public.  I know this is a weird concept to lots of people. Public school tracks aren’t open to the public. Welcome to one of the many reasons I disagree with public schools.

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 55.2

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

          Alright, nobody has volunteered to lead the thread, so now I need to really force the discussion!

           

          The last 3 years have been run by myself, JT, and RPJT is the real champ as he ran the 2019 thread as well! He can officially retire.

           

          I would also say anyone who has run the sub 1:30 thread in the last couple of years is disqualified as well. I am not sure if Flavio is on the list since he abandoned that thread halfway through the year, but it excludes Keen and Steve

           

          For consistent posters who have been around for at least a year, that leaves us with Mikkey, Flavio, Fishy, Mark, and Dave. Who is picking up the slack??

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          flavio1980


          Intl. correspondent

            ch17 - Thanks for the explanation, and kudos for putting in the work!

             

            RP - 800m in 3 minutes is actually quite achievable for you.
            You may instead start training by time. Just do 6x 3 minutes. No matter how far you go, you will run exactly 3 minutes, and you can do that workout with an old timex if needed be. And it will be VERY accurate.
            Also, didn't you know that if you, as a male, don't run sub 20 for a 5k you need to dress like Lady Gaga ?
            It's called the Gaga Challenge and it's even on wikipedia.
            I could post the link but I have rick rolled people here already so nobody would trust the link.

             

            Zebano - some impressive resting heart rate you got there.

             

            Steve - Exciting news, here's to a great training period ahead.

             

            Jmac - I do remember you being burned out from Jack D's 5k plans and commenting on just how hard they were.
            Fair enough, Keen does a ton of mileage so higher workout volume as well.

             

            As for new thread dictator, my vote has to go to Mikkey 💪, if anything for the entertainment value, this thread will be on 🔥. But also he is a marathon expert, and a Hanson's brothers lookalike.

            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

            Up next: 

            2023-12-03 - 42.5km long run

            Tool to generate Strava weekly

            DavePNW


               
              also, it takes time to get to a track, and most here aren’t open to the public.  I know this is a weird concept to lots of people. Public school tracks aren’t open to the public. Welcome to one of the many reasons I disagree with public schools.

               

              RP - don't hate public schools, hate YOUR public schools. I am a 1.25 mile jog from a HS track that is always open. I used to run from work, and there was a HS track 1 mile away that was always open. Where I lived before I moved here, I was 1 mile away from a HS track that was always open. I've even used tracks I've found while traveling on business. My only beef with my current track is that there is a nice brick & mortar restroom building, which is always locked. Presumably only open for official school events. But it would sure be nice to have access to that.

              Dave

              DavePNW


                 

                For consistent posters who have been around for at least a year, that leaves us with Mikkey, Flavio, Fishy, Mark, and Dave. Who is picking up the slack??

                 

                Hey, I'm still kind of a noob here!

                Dave

                JMac11


                RIP Milkman

                   

                  Hey, I'm still kind of a noob here!

                   

                  You've been consistent for 6+ months and are already talking about races next year. Your candidacy remains, do not try to get out of it 

                  5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                   

                  JMac11


                  RIP Milkman

                     

                     

                    As for new thread dictator, my vote has to go to Mikkey 💪, if anything for the entertainment value, this thread will be on 🔥. But also he is a marathon expert, and a Hanson's brothers lookalike.

                     

                    I will +1 his candidacy. He's committed to a race next year, and talks the most about this thread becoming too much like the Waltons. By running the thread himself, he can set the terms as he likes 

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                     

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      Alright, nobody has volunteered to lead the thread, so now I need to really force the discussion!

                       

                      The last 3 years have been run by myself, JT, and RPJT is the real champ as he ran the 2019 thread as well! He can officially retire.

                       

                      I would also say anyone who has run the sub 1:30 thread in the last couple of years is disqualified as well. I am not sure if Flavio is on the list since he abandoned that thread halfway through the year, but it excludes Keen and Steve

                       

                      For consistent posters who have been around for at least a year, that leaves us with Mikkey, Flavio, Fishy, Mark, and Dave. Who is picking up the slack??

                       

                      I second the motion for Keen to run the thread. He’s experienced running threads and is up early enough to cover all time zones.

                      wait..Blush read that wrong.  Why the fuck is the guy who ripped off a 2:56 after a few years of bad marsthons NOT going to lead us all to victory in 2023? We need to use that high he has from being so successful to show us the way, and carry the load.

                       

                       

                      flavio I’d done the 3 minute thing once or twice.  It ended up being almost the exact same as doing the metric distance.  It kinda made me chuckle just because it started out being mentally different, then ended up being the same.

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 55.2

                      5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                      CommanderKeen


                      Cobra Commander Keen

                        Dorothea - HRV is more about tracking trends (day-to-day and longer term) in recovery and stress. Have lower-than-usual HRV? Not a great day to train hard (my has absolutely tanked for a while, partially due to CIM, getting sick the day after, and then picking up a stomach bug yesterday).
                        HRV can be tracked during an activity, but I don't know of anything that actually presents it during said activity. Or even what you'd make of it if you could see it during a race or workout.


                        Flavio - I read your comment about the Gaga Challenge on wikipedia as saying "people here have been rick rolled, and so even though I'd really like to rick roll you I can't because you'll be suspicious of the link."

                        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                         

                        Marky_Mark_17


                           

                          For consistent posters who have been around for at least a year, that leaves us with Mikkey, Flavio, Fishy, Mark, and Dave. Who is picking up the slack??

                           

                          As much as I would find it deeply amusing to be in charge of the de-facto marathon thread despite being a marathon retiree, I do not think it would be the best thing for the thread.  My current plans for next year are 3 half marathons then a trail run series which is probably anathema to a few folks on here.  If I was in charge, the best case outcome is that Mikkey disappears in a sulk and sets up his own thread of moose mug pictures and assorted nonsense, which could mean Cal posts here less regularly too, since he seems to thrive off banter with Mikkey.  Worst case, others decide to go too given that I seem to polarise a few people around here.

                           

                          Personally, I'd vote for Keen.  I have no plans to run another marathon, and marathons are a big focus for many, if not most, on this thread.  Keen is a long-time stalwart of both threads who can be trusted to do a good job and has earned the respect of all - not just for his marathon performance but also for the fact he consistently shows up, posts weeklies, and does races.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Omaha HM, 3 Dec, pushed the limits.

                          Up next: The Goat, 20 Jan, don't die.

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          Fishyone


                             

                             

                             

                            Personally, I'd vote for Keen.  I have no plans to run another marathon, and marathons are a big focus for many, if not most, on this thread.  Keen is a long-time stalwart of both threads who can be trusted to do a good job and has earned the respect of all - not just for his marathon performance but also for the fact he consistently shows up, posts weeklies, and does races.

                             

                            I would second this nomination and for all of the same reasons.  If the Commander agrees to lead us I vow to be a more consistent contributor And now that CAL isn’t around I need someone to motivate me to shoot for 100 when I’m sitting on 97 miles for the week.  Last year Jmac led me to JD insanity now Keen can bring me back to the promised land (sub3)

                            5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

                            dktrotter


                            Dorothea

                              Dorothea - HRV is more about tracking trends (day-to-day and longer term) in recovery and stress. Have lower-than-usual HRV? Not a great day to train hard (my has absolutely tanked for a while, partially due to CIM, getting sick the day after, and then picking up a stomach bug yesterday).
                              HRV can be tracked during an activity, but I don't know of anything that actually presents it during said activity. Or even what you'd make of it if you could see it during a race or workout.

                               

                              Thanks for clarifying, Keen. Yeah, that's what I thought and have been using it for, too. And hope yours goes back up soon! I'm sure once you recover from the bug and continue recovering from CIM, it will.

                              Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.  

                              Last race: Philadelphia Marathon Nov. 19. Great race conditions, though not personally. Eked out a sub 3:30 and a PR. 

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                 

                                You've been consistent for 6+ months and are already talking about races next year. Your candidacy remains, do not try to get out of it 

                                 

                                Accurate and I fully support this dictator’s rule....which should be a compliment given how much of a problem I have with authority.

                                 

                                 

                                flavio 180 seconds for an 800?.!?!. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkkkkk that’s fast.also, I finally broke 20 in the 5k I think in 2021. Later that year I finally broke 40 in the 10k. I was doubtful of both performances.

                                 

                                dorothy I never knew what HRV was until Garmin unlocked it in my watch. It accurately predicted me getting sick about 2 days before I was sick. This wasn’t recently either. It was months ago when I was just casually running. I wake up And laugh how my watch says I’m stressed.   Two days later my fever hits.

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 55.2

                                5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22