Lance Armstrong appears finally to have run out of rope. (Read 2696 times)

    Well Bonds was actually convicted of a crime and Clemens may yet be.  And really I'm not sure I see the logic in, "why spend taxpayer money prosecuting suspected criminals?"

    Runners run.


    Fat butt on couch

      I wonder if he cheated in his last 2 races that he won?

      I wonder if he was tested after he won his last 2 races?

      I wonder why he would enter races in today's environment if he were cheating still today?

       

      i'm guessing that if he did get tested after the last 2 races that he won, and if he was dirty, we might come to find out about it.

      I'm also guessing that if he was clean, then he's a bad-ass 41 year old athlete!

       

      (I'm willing to change my mind any day, but what he does is quite amazing... ).

       

      Lance is an amazingly talented athlete and always has been.  At least for me, my conviction that he is a doper has nothing to do with his performances and everything to do with what has been revealed about some of his blood results coupled with the rampant doping by virtually everyone affiliated with him (close teammates, docs, etc).

       

      If he were cheating today (I actually kind of doubt he'd bother for triathlon), I don't see why he would shy away from races, he worked the system for years without throwing a positive (as did many others).

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        Bonds was not convicted of using banned substances.  And yeah, it's not logical.  Perhaps the difference lies in the "criminal" part of it for me.  I'm all for the lifetime bans from the sport, etc.  Not so much our judicial system involvement.  I was more commenting on how Lance's public perception overall is much different than those two. 

         

        vinno101


          What ever happened to innocent untill proven guilty. Lance is a legend and probably the worlds most tested athlete. His career in cycling has been over for quite some time yet they continue with there pointless witch hunt. Load of crock we were priviliged to witness one of the best cyclists the world has ever seen. And to the sceptics ever thing that seen as everyone else was doing it even if the allegations were true that made it a level playing field and they still couldn't beat hime! LANCE YOU LEGEND Big grin

          Sub 20 5k

           

          !st Marathon in November

           

          Qualify for comrades marathon 2013

            Lance is an amazingly talented athlete and always has been.  At least for me, my conviction that he is a doper has nothing to do with his performances and everything to do with what has been revealed about some of his blood results coupled with the rampant doping by virtually everyone affiliated with him (close teammates, docs, etc).

             

            If he were cheating today (I actually kind of doubt he'd bother for triathlon), I don't see why he would shy away from races, he worked the system for years without throwing a positive (as did many others).

             

            So, if he's winning triathlon's at the age of 41 while clean, could it not be possible that he could win clean in his late 20s and early 30s in the Tour de France?

            Could it be that others near him were doping in order to be "at par" with him in training?

            Whatever happened in the 80s and 90s within numerous sports wasn't good, and I do question his ability, but I'm not looking for another Mitchell Report on cycling.

             

            I believe that he was winning at all levels (triathlon, swimming, cycling) when he was in his teens as well.

            My point is that there are freaks of nature (ie. Michael Phelps, Lance Armstrong, Carl Lewis).  Just because they win and have the suspicion of guilt, are they guilty?

             

            Lance has entered triathlon this year and has competed rather well (2 wins with a 5:45 pace for the run portion after kicking tail in the swim and bike).  Banning him from competition with the suspicion of guilt while he could be innocent because of the bad press that might come from this sucks (if he's innocent).  In essence, he's been found guilty before the trial.

            2014 Goals:

            #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

            #2: 365 Hours training

             

            DoppleBock


              Guilty? 

              Not Guilty?

               

              A lot of athletes are charged with stuff both criminal and PEDs.  Once you are charged (Like Lance already has been before) many in public will hold you guilty no matter what the results.

               

              As a non-cycling fan - It would seem to be cycling is a lot like professional wrestling - Does anyone not take PEDs?  This has to be a sign of a deep rooted issues of how all cycling from ameteur to professional to have as many cases as we have seen in the last few years.

               

              Of couse there are many PEds out there, and many of you have taken them during training or competition ~ Cold medications, caffeine over certain tolerances etc.  Hopefully you have not taken them with the idea of improving your race?

               

              These is a big difference between Efedra based cold medications and EPO ~ Although both would results in disciplinary actions.

               

              I have moved on from caring about Lance a few years ago - Sadly I just assumed he was guilty (Like most all cycling) and got away with it (Like Ryan Braun)

              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

               

                (Like Ryan Braun)

                 

                Over the past 12 hours, I forgot about Ryan Braun.... Now, that's a crime!

                2014 Goals:

                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                #2: 365 Hours training

                 


                Fat butt on couch

                  So, if he's winning triathlon's at the age of 41 while clean, could it not be possible that he could win clean in his late 20s and early 30s in the Tour de France?

                  Could it be that others near him were doping in order to be "at par" with him in training?

                  Whatever happened in the 80s and 90s within numerous sports wasn't good, and I do question his ability, but I'm not looking for another Mitchell Report on cycling.

                   

                  Just because they win and have the suspicion of guilt, are they guilty?

                   

                    Banning him from competition with the suspicion of guilt while he could be innocent because of the bad press that might come from this sucks (if he's innocent).  In essence, he's been found guilty before the trial.

                   

                  Brian, it sounds like you didn't read the first line of my post.  My personal decision that he is guilty has nothing at all to do with his freakish performances and everything to do with a good understanding of the bloodwork results which have been reported, a good understanding of the testing methodology involved (including its significant deficiencies making it easy to get around), and the simple fact that I find it totally unbelievable that a guy who led two teams chock full of dopers, traveling Europe and living/rooming with them for years, not only did not participate, but was totally unaware of what was going on (as he claims).   MTA:  For a long time while the Tour was known to be dirty, no one who rode with LA was caught.  That made me think maybe he was keeping the team clean.  But now most of the good riders who rode with him have been busted so there went that rationalization...

                   

                  It's not "too much winning" which is the problem.  I'm not jealous of LA and didn't have it in for him.  I was a BIG fan and used to follow each of his Tour stages online, then watch them on OLN when I got home...every stage for many Tours.  It was a bitter pill when I became convinced that it was all cheating and I have not watched a Tour since.

                   

                  As for the pre-conviction ban, however, I am not sure.  It really depends what evidence they have in the bloodwork (which, as far as I can determine, has not been revealed in detail).  I don't know for sure, but I believe it us up to national governing body -- not WADA -- as to what happens when you have a positive A sample.  I know there are numerous examples out there where athletes tested positive on their A sample only (not a conviction) and were immediately banned from competition.  It requires testing the B sample to confirm doping and convict you of it, leading to an official 2-year ban.  So if the evidence they have is considered to be on the same level as a positive A sample I can see them putting a ban on now.  If their evidence is only eyewitness testimony -- no matter how many -- I would agree that he should not be banned until a court delivers a verdict.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   

                    since people are bringing up baseball let's ask the great Bill James what he thinks:

                     

                    http://www.ronkaplansbaseballbookshelf.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/cooperstownandtheroids_f2.pdf

                     

                    My take-away is, when most people cheat you are a sucker for not cheating.  And the people of the future living to 500 years old will all thank the cheaters for their foresight and bravery. 

                    In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                    http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                     

                     

                     






                    Fat butt on couch

                       

                      My take-away is, when most people cheat you are a sucker for not cheating. 

                       

                      I agree, it probably is a lot easier to go through life without ethics (or without standing up for your own when it is inconvenient to do so).

                       

                      <<sarcasm>>

                       

                      Like most sports writers, the guy strikes me as a complete buffoon.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                        Although he doesn't have to prove innocence, some might think he'll need to. For what its worth, I grew up idolizing Ben Johnson (1988 Olympic 100 meter winner for 24 hours...). I'm guessing many athletes are doped up (cyclists, runners, baseball players, swimmers, and any other type of competitive sport). But, innocent until proven guilty. Dang, government spending for this stuff sucks, though. Cheers, Brian.

                         

                        I don't get how the government keeps getting brought into this discussion.  The USADA is not a government agency.

                        Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


                        MoBramExam

                          Not speaking directly to Armstrong’s guilt or innocence, but why in certain sports are (way) after-the-fact claims and charges given so much
                          significance with the potential to carry extreme penalties?

                           

                          For me, there is distinction between breaking the law and cheating at a sport.  There are officialsat the events.   Like other sports, if an
                          infraction is called, there is a consequence. Not all are called, there is human error, and that can affect the outcome.  That is sports.  (We know that Armando Galarraga pitched a perfect game in 2010.  We know Johan Santana did not pitch a no-hitter in 2012. History will say otherwise.  It
                          was a game, not a war, so what.)

                           

                          It is; however, easy to see people’s passion on one side or the other when some look at sports as competition, others as entertainment, and
                          some in between.

                           

                          Sports (in this case cycling) gets the black eye.  My opinion is that if they really, really wanted to bust these guys before and during the actual event, they could do a much better job.  Penalize and/or ban the cheaters.  Charge the criminals.  That did not happen, and here we sit.

                            Like most sports writers, the guy strikes me as a complete buffoon.

                             

                            except:

                             

                            In 2006, Time named him in the Time 100 as one of the most influential people in the world. He is currently a Senior Advisor on Baseball Operations for the Boston Red Sox.

                            In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                            http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                             

                             

                             





                            DoppleBock


                              I find Pro-wrestling a PED freak show and do not watch.

                               

                              Cycling is not worth my time to watch - PEDs

                               

                              I do not feel every sport is like this - But probably more than I would like to admit.

                               

                              Do they not test this in NBA? 

                               

                              I wonder if they had 2 sets of every sport - PED league and Clean league (Pretend it could happen) - Whick league would prosper?  Both?

                               

                              since people are bringing up baseball let's ask the great Bill James what he thinks:

                               

                              http://www.ronkaplansbaseballbookshelf.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/cooperstownandtheroids_f2.pdf

                               

                              My take-away is, when most people cheat you are a sucker for not cheating.  And the people of the future living to 500 years old will all thank the cheaters for their foresight and bravery. 

                              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                               

                                I don't believe that.  People are going to cheat whether the person before them was caught, or not.  They are going to believe that they're exceptional and they'll never get caught.  Cheating will continue no matter who is caught.

                                 

                                I'm very close to Trent's opinion on this one.  Who cares if athletes use PEDs?  What if we legalized them?  What if there wasn't a stigma attached to doctors that oversaw their use?  What if there was more and better research on PEDs because of that?

                                 

                                I've come to the point that I have no more belief in clean elite endurance athletes.  I'll just enjoy their performance as athletic entertainment. 

                                 

                                I'm j-j-jaded

                                In all its misery

                                It will always be what I loved and hated

                                 

                                I'm not interested in TdF or any athletic contest that is decided by what the labs can concoct or the degree of clandestine skill with which the hypodermics are wielded.  Just doesn't interest me.

                                 

                                I'd rather watch amateur sports, if they're clean.

                                Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.