Goal 6 minute mile (Read 6285 times)

    Yes, 60x400, again and again.  It is a good read.

     

    I heart message boards.

      Maybe you can clarify this for us. In what way is it alot?

       

      Do you have time constraints that limit your running to well below 45 minutes a day? Is 35 miles tough/fatiguing for you? Do you just think 35 miles is good, solid mileage for a 5k?

       

      What we all don't get is why you think 30-40+ miles a week is so much. It's one thing to say your training for a certain time/race etc. and then explain that you have 6 other major commitments and probably won't be able to train but want info on how to use what time you have as efficiently as possible. In your case though, you don't give any reasons for not doing more mileage, which makes it confusing as hell.

       

      So i'll ask, why is 30+ miles alot, what is the reason you don't seem to have much interest in doing that level or beyond?

       

       

      I have read the maximum mileage you can run where the diminishing returns really eat into your extra time are around 70 mpw.

      Thus I never thought about going over 70 mpw.

      35 mpw was a nice round 5mpd average. That seemed to be the best mileage for me to leave time for my wife and daughter and still run well for me.

       

      Would I like to get to 40-50 mpw? Its not really a huge goal of mine. I worry about knee and hip problems in old age perhaps too much. So I run alot on the treadmill. Talk to me again in the Spring and perhaps then I will be trying to go 40-50. Until then I am content running just enough to keep my times falling slightly as I have alot on my to do list around the house. Typically October 20 is when I start my New Years training program. Right now the passion is not there. I believe if I break 6 by late October I will be pumped and ready to start my base training for the new year.


      Blue Moon Hater

        I have read the maximum mileage you can run where the diminishing returns really eat into your extra time are around 70 mpw.

        Thus I never thought about going over 70 mpw.

        35 mpw was a nice round 5mpd average. That seemed to be the best mileage for me to leave time for my wife and daughter and still run well for me.

         

        Would I like to get to 40-50 mpw? Its not really a huge goal of mine. I worry about knee and hip problems in old age perhaps too much. So I run alot on the treadmill. Talk to me again in the Spring and perhaps then I will be trying to go 40-50. Until then I am content running just enough to keep my times falling slightly as I have alot on my to do list around the house. Typically October 20 is when I start my New Years training program. Right now the passion is not there. I believe if I break 6 by late October I will be pumped and ready to start my base training for the new year.

         

        Perhaps you worry too much is right:

         

        Running and Knees

         

        I'm confused by the 70 mpw eating into your extra time.  If there really were diminishing returns from going over 70 mpw, I'm sure many runners would stop at 70 mpw and use their time for training more wisely--more cross training/strength training/massages/etc.

         

        I really think that if you want to use your time wisely, you would skip the one mile easy runs, and either go for it, or not.

        There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

         

        Well, fuckers

        He still stands

         

        The Diary of a Once-ran.

          I have read the maximum mileage you can run where the diminishing returns really eat into your extra time are around 70 mpw.

          Thus I never thought about going over 70 mpw.

          35 mpw was a nice round 5mpd average. That seemed to be the best mileage for me to leave time for my wife and daughter and still run well for me.

           

           

           

          The key words are "diminishing" and "return".  Yes, the marginal rate of running performance improvement will reduce when you approach a certain mileage.  It may be 70 for some people, and may be 80 for others.  Who knows.

           

          However, even though the rate of improvement is reduced, there are still "returns".

           

          One can, e.g. improve from 21 min to mid 19 min in 5k by upping the miles from 30 to 50.  But to go from mid 19 to sub 19, one may need to up from 50 to 80. 

           

          This injury talk pisses me off sometimes.  When we are running in good form on mostly dirt, chance of injury is now high.  In fact, some other hobbies, like ballroom dancing you see on Dancing with the Stars, can cause a much higher rate of knee injury.  I used to do that and I have constant knee pain.  Most of the dancing teachers I had also had knee surgery.

          RunAsics


          Person of Interest

            MF:   If you need a goal to get you motivated fine but if you are going to do it, do it "right".  Of course there is no absolute "right" but I think we can all agree that, to gain improvement, running minimal mileage is less right.   So... why not just start building your miles now?  Why wait?  You can add in some track work and periodically test your fitness with a mile time trial.   This way you can track your improvement based off training volume / miles per week.  A case study of one with pretty graphs, spreadsheets and such.  

             

            Note that balancing your running with family life and work can be tough but I'd imagine that, if you wanted to run more, you'd find a way. 

             

             

            As a side note inspired by this talk of a sub 6min mile:   I was looking at the results of the 5k qualifiers in Daegu.  The guy who came last in the 2nd heat was from Gabon (somewhere in Africa).  He ran 18:44.  Was that a typo or was he still running 5 minutes after the lead guys had finished?

            "Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is."

              MF:   If you need a goal to get you motivated fine but if you are going to do it, do it "right".  Of course there is no absolute "right" but I think we can all agree that, to gain improvement, running minimal mileage is less right.   So... why not just start building your miles now?  Why wait?  You can add in some track work and periodically test your fitness with a mile time trial.   This way you can track your improvement based off training volume / miles per week.  A case study of one with pretty graphs, spreadsheets and such.  

               

              Note that balancing your running with family life and work can be tough but I'd imagine that, if you wanted to run more, you'd find a way. 

               

               

              As a side note inspired by this talk of a sub 6min mile:   I was looking at the results of the 5k qualifiers in Daegu.  The guy who came last in the 2nd heat was from Gabon (somewhere in Africa).  He ran 18:44.  Was that a typo or was he still running 5 minutes after the lead guys had finished?

               

              Any country that have nobody qualifies for the WC (and also the Olympics) will get a couple of exempt entries.  I think for this time those countries will get 2.  So, if he is not injured, he is probably one of those that get a free ticket because nobody from his country get A or B standards.

                He ran 18:44.  Was that a typo or was he still running 5 minutes after the lead guys had finished?

                 

                Not a typo.

                Runners run.

                  there was also a 17:01.  I bet he was wishing he could have found 2 more seconds on the course.  Maybe if he had shaved his shoes...

                  In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                  http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                   

                   

                   





                    I feel his pain.

                    Runners run.

                    MrH


                      In many events at the World Championships there is at least one person who wouldn't be a standout at a local high school meet. 

                       

                      The women's 100m at Daegu had four runners slower than the best 10 year old girl in our local track club. She's quite good though.

                      The process is the goal.

                      Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

                        There was a 2:36.8 finisher in one of the women's 800m heats.  I looked over at my wife and said "yeah, I could have kicked her ass".  She just rolled her eyes.

                         

                        Hey, what's up with that weird musical tone - followed by a crowd roar - followed by a 'shhhhhhhhhhhh' sound that they play at the stadium before the start of, it seems, every running event?  I find myself waiting/listening for it.  It's aggravating.  That makes me want to run a 6minute mile away from my television.

                        xor


                          That's telling the smokers it is time to come back to their seats.

                           

                            Re: World Championships 18:44 5K.  I loved seeing that type of stuff in college after finishing DFL in about half my track races.  At least I was faster than that!

                             

                            Re:  Michigan and the 6 minute mile. 

                            I've been following along.  It looks like what you are trying to do is find that exact line to do as little as possible to achieve your goal and hope for a miracle.  Its almost like:  "OK I ran 30 miles per week and ran 6:15, let's see what I can do on 30.1 miles...OK how about 30.2..."  That's not going to work, and that's what several folks here are trying to patiently explain.

                             

                            Some people - I am one of them - can go out and run sub 6 with no or very little training.  But that's dependent a lot on genes and background.  I play ice hockey and used to race 800m.  I can still run under 29 in the 200m any day of the week and you can't.  The mile is short enough that I can still get to that level and not really have to train.  Other people - many of whom seem to be on RA - are like that with long distances.  I could train for a marathon for 5 years without injuries (there's your miracle), average 100 MPW, and they'd still have their cooldown jog in and be sampling post race beer at the marathon while watching me finally finish....they are more made to do this and I am not.

                             

                            That being said... even given my background...I was most successful in my life when doing nothing but 60 mile weeks for 3 months and wasn't doing any speed - during that time I set lifetime PR's for 1000m and 10K, plus got within 1 second of my mile PR (on an indoor track, too).   It was time consuming, seemed like a lot of distance, and I had to put running at a higher priority than I had and it wasn't easy to do.  The only thing I was doing fast were a few strideouts 2x/week and tempo run 1x/week.  You have to get the distance in.  You might not be naturally made to run under 6, but you can get there if you put the work in, and its been proven through your experience to date you're not doing enough to get there.

                             

                            You can't expect miracles on "minimalist" training (yes I've talked to Nobby).  I certainly understand time constraints and priority balance...I too have been having trouble getting 20-25 miles a week in for months with job, house, kid coming any day, etc etc...but I also can't expect to have optimal running goals with that, or on aimless 30-35 MPW I was doing.  But if I changed priorities, focus, and got to 40 MPW, 60 MPW - and drop 15-20 pounds doing so - then yeah the expectations go up.  That all should hold true for you too.  It isn't easy.  Don't try to find that exact line.  Take away the margin of error, put in the work, and you stand a much higher chance of being rewarded with 5:XX no matter how little "natural speed" you may have.  Good luck!


                            Slow-smooth-fast

                              Re: World Championships 18:44 5K.  I loved seeing that type of stuff in college after finishing DFL in about half my track races.  At least I was faster than that!

                               

                              Re:  Michigan and the 6 minute mile. 

                              I've been following along.  It looks like what you are trying to do is find that exact line to do as little as possible to achieve your goal and hope for a miracle.  Its almost like:  "OK I ran 30 miles per week and ran 6:15, let's see what I can do on 30.1 miles...OK how about 30.2..."  That's not going to work, and that's what several folks here are trying to patiently explain.

                               

                              Some people - I am one of them - can go out and run sub 6 with no or very little training.  But that's dependent a lot on genes and background.  I play ice hockey and used to race 800m.  I can still run under 29 in the 200m any day of the week and you can't.  The mile is short enough that I can still get to that level and not really have to train.  Other people - many of whom seem to be on RA - are like that with long distances.  I could train for a marathon for 5 years without injuries (there's your miracle), average 100 MPW, and they'd still have their cooldown jog in and be sampling post race beer at the marathon while watching me finally finish....they are more made to do this and I am not.

                               

                              That being said... even given my background...I was most successful in my life when doing nothing but 60 mile weeks for 3 months and wasn't doing any speed - during that time I set lifetime PR's for 1000m and 10K, plus got within 1 second of my mile PR (on an indoor track, too).   It was time consuming, seemed like a lot of distance, and I had to put running at a higher priority than I had and it wasn't easy to do.  The only thing I was doing fast were a few strideouts 2x/week and tempo run 1x/week.  You have to get the distance in.  You might not be naturally made to run under 6, but you can get there if you put the work in, and its been proven through your experience to date you're not doing enough to get there.

                               

                              You can't expect miracles on "minimalist" training (yes I've talked to Nobby).  I certainly understand time constraints and priority balance...I too have been having trouble getting 20-25 miles a week in for months with job, house, kid coming any day, etc etc...but I also can't expect to have optimal running goals with that, or on aimless 30-35 MPW I was doing.  But if I changed priorities, focus, and got to 40 MPW, 60 MPW - and drop 15-20 pounds doing so - then yeah the expectations go up.  That all should hold true for you too.  It isn't easy.  Don't try to find that exact line.  Take away the margin of error, put in the work, and you stand a much higher chance of being rewarded with 5:XX no matter how little "natural speed" you may have.  Good luck!

                               

                              Great post. Really enjoyed the read. I too am awaiting the birth of my 2nd child. Partner is 38 weeks pregnant. I have been taking any opportunity to go out and run. Been getting in about 50mpw. I will be happy if I can be around this in the foreseeable with our new addition. I am a big fan of nobbys stuff and follow his advice to good effect. For example I went from a 22min 5k to a 18:50 in 8weeks doing nothing but 70mpw of aerobic training. After 8 weeks of this I just felt good one night and tried a 5k time trial. The results speak for themselves. I have been getting the miles in by running to or from work, its 10miles away so convenient. I have just started to up the route too. Did 13.2 mile to work on wed and all aerobic. I am starting to feel great again and feel the benefits through all levels of intensity which has been gained by running as much as I can. Good lick in your pursuit.

                              "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009


                              Shady Fellow®

                                Agree that it's "interesting", but I'd rather see the guy train for real and crush his goals once and for all.  No one crushes anything but mediocrity on 10~20 miles per week.

                                 

                                 

                                Michigan Flyer has been unfairly vilified and ridiculed on this thread.  He was not attacked by the Haters because he is a busy lawyer juggling family, OCD, and getting older.  His real crime was challenging the conventional wisdom that mega mileage is the golden key to achieving any running success.  Michigan is not a lazy *ass* trying to avoid a little effort.  Rather he is an obstinate contrarian trying an unauthorized approach to achieving a short term personal goal.  While I may not agree with this regimen, I admire his determination in the face of relentless criticism from the barking mob.  Curiously, I don't see much reference date supporting the critics.  Only unsubstantiated personal testimony.

                                 

                                Now for an unsubstantiated personal anecdote.  I have enjoyed some racing success training on very limited easy mileage.  Sure, I could probably run a little faster if I was able to train like Jim Howe or other elite runners.  But light training with little intensity has allowed me to remain competitive and "racing sound."  And continue to enjoy the benefits of running fitness, nature, camaraderie and competition.  While finding time to pursue other passions.  Heresy, I know.

                                 

                                __

                                Shady Fellow®
                                "Better being over the hill than being under it."