Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 539 times)

SteveChCh


Hot Weather Complainer

    Done - I refrained from blaming Taxcinda since she is only about 50% to blame Smile

    PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

    Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

    2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

    JMac11


    Taper Czar

      Careful boys, RA mods gonna be after you talking government/COVID stuff.

       

      Does anyone have experience with Achilles injuries? I've been battling something there for about 2 weeks. It's weird - it's not in the spot you traditionally think of, i.e. parallel with the ankle bone, but rather in the heel. Its been migrating around the heel which is a great sign because its not some trauma spot.

       

      Some quick googling indicated something called instertional achilles tendonitis, which makes sense: its where your Achilles connects to your heel bone. Seems like most calf/foot injuries: massage the calf, strengthen the calf, mixed messages on stretching, ice/heat, and potentially tape. Just want to knock this out quickly rather than it develop into something real.

      5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        JMac - I've had something similar which I didn't get treatment for and managed to run through it with plenty of icing.  I would load up a bucket with ice and cold water and suffer through 10 minutes of having my whole foot in the bucket.  Holding an ice pack against it just didn't get the results I wanted.

         

        me - I'm going through the post-race blues which come with a disappointment.  Pretty standard I guess but especially so given I had 2 cracks in mid-winter and a nice cool spring morning, with really good training behind me.  My next race is on a slower course at the start of summer so is less likely to give me a shot at sub 1:30.  So I'm coming to terms with having to hold out until 2021, which I guess puts me in the same boat as most people around the world.

        PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

        Recent Races:   Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51 Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49

        2020 Planned Races:  Queenstown Half-Marathon, November 21

        watsonc123


          If its warm, then a half has to be slower.

           

          Ice bucket baths are a staple for my PR and achilles.  Calf raises with slow eccentric can help the achilles too.

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

          Marky_Mark_17


            If its warm, then a half has to be slower.

             

            Definitely, although Queenstown can still be pretty cold in the mornings at that time of year and I don't think heat will be an issue.  There was fresh snow on Coronet Peak last time I ran Queenstown.

             

            Even in the North Island you can sometimes strike it lucky with weather at that time of year.  Kerikeri (which is normally the same day as Queenstown) was perfect last year - cool at the start, slightly warm by the finish but not enough to be an issue.

            5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

            HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

            Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

            Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            watsonc123


              The Pelorus Trust half last November was painful.  It was warm, and the 9am start hurt.  If it had started 8am it would have been OK.  First race where I got sun burnt.

              PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

               

              40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

              flavio1980


              King of pastries

                Z - Ugh, hopefully it’s nothing and it goes away quickly.

                 

                Mark - You should’ve moved out of Auckland while you had the chance heh. NZ situation is quite unique cause you have so few cases and seem to be trying to wipe it out again. It's a completely different situation than say Italy where almost everybody who's susceptible to it already caught it.

                Though there are certainly many things they could've done instead, perhaps they didn't want to risk being the next "Insert that church who was under fire for the outbreak".

                 

                Jmac - I used to feel a lot more tired in the past for 5Ks. Since I started doing strength training with frequency I now don’t suffer as much.

                But it’s not the legs that hurt, it's upper and lower back and abs. It used to be that my abs would give up and my race was toast because I couldn't speed up, just barely maintain pace or fade from that moment on (it usually happened around the 2 mile mark.

                Perhaps you are much stronger so that you don't come close to your physical tiredness threshold.

                 

                Darkwave - that seems to be the standard MO for medical doctors. They don’t want to have their assess handed to them via law suits. At least that’s what I reckon.

                PRs: 1500m 4:54.1 3K 10:34 5K 18:05 HM 1:23:30 - Up next: Some 5K race Sep 6th.

                Tool to generate Strava weekly

                zebano


                  Flavio - gracias

                   

                  Mark -- I hope one of your races goes off, worrying about that day after day would be a whole lot of unnecessary stress.

                   

                  JMac - If I've got a new runner's injury does that mean I get to make fitness gains like a new runner? Regarding legs hurting during a 5k... I'm honestly not sure. I know mine did during the triathlon, but I think that was due to the cycling. My main memory of my various 5ks is sucking wind, hurting and vomiting at the end. That doesn't really mean my legs didn't hurt, just that the pain in from my lungs was much worse. I agree with DW that if you do this 5k specific block you should keep an eye on things and see if you really need that long of a specific phase or if 2-4 weeks is enough for you.  Anecdotally I did a huge 10 week specific block for a 10k trail race in 2018 and a less specific block of 4 weeks in 2019 and got identical results.

                   

                  JMac - I had some Achilles issues mainly due to switching to 0-drop shoes without a proper adjustment period. I've found eccentric heel drops to be amazing. I've no idea about the specifics of different achilles issues however.

                   

                  DarkWave - Yes, the primary recommendations are either to strengthen the hips or the quads. Some places are more specific and mention that the hamstring and quad need to be equally strong, however you measure that.   The knee tracking thing sounds like it went out of fashion years ago, I'm glad you got a second opinion. Personally I've added some banded side shuffles (not sure if theres a better name) to my list of things I'll randomly take a break and do while working (mostly eccentric heel drops, single leg deadlifts and pistol squats which are on hold until the knee allows).

                   

                  Watson - there will surely be people who miss their goal, yes? I'd be shocked if you finish last but a PB and a last place would be a great story.

                  1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    Jmac - I am not a doctor.  But I believe that eccentric heel drops (from a flat floor, NOT from a stairstep) are the gold standard for insertional achilles tendonitis.

                     

                    The moving around thing is odd, though.  Generally soft tissue injuries have an obvious place where they hurt, and that place stays constant.  Pain that moves around is more of a nerve thing (of course, I could just be diagnosing other people with whatever I have at the moment, just like every other idiot on the internet).

                     

                     

                     

                    Darkwave - that seems to be the standard MO for medical doctors. They don’t want to have their assess handed to them via law suits. At least that’s what I reckon.

                     

                    In defense of doctors, I don't think they are a monolithic whole prioritizing avoidance of lawsuits at all costs (though nobody likes to get sued).

                     

                    I think 99.9999% of doctors have the primary focus of helping their patients.  But.....doctors disagree in how to help those patients.  And in particular, older doctors seem to place a stronger emphasis on "first do no harm" - which often translates into ordering full rest as the safest option.

                     

                    Older doctors, in my experience, also tend to have a different definition of health from younger doctors.    Doctors my age or younger tend to include my participation and enjoyment of sports as part of my health, and something to be protected and restored if possible.  Older doctors tend to exclude it, or see it as an ultimately destructive habit.  If I tear my hamstring and get it good enough to walk again and do all my non-athletic activities without pain, but not to the point where I can train for a marathon, some doctors (generally older ones) see that as a successful outcome, others as failure.

                     

                    I've also learned that it's best to work with doctors who work regularly with, or at least understand and respect, older recreational athletes.  If you go to the team doctor for the local college team, that doctor may be more likely to dismiss the injuries of a masters runner as the logical consequence of age.   And if you see a doctor who regularly works with very very sick people (i.e. my prior pulmonologist, who saw a LOT of COPD patients) they understandably tend to not be as impressed with a relatively mild "I used to run 10 miles every day, now I can only run 5).

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    zebano


                      Hey DarkWave,

                       

                      I did a two minute experiment with water running today and it doesn't hurt my knee so I'm going to try it out tomorrow. A few questions if you don't mind:

                       

                      1. How do you track distance?

                      2. what watch setting do you use? I have an indoor running that I'm going to try but I'm not sure If I'll have a complete enough arm swing for that to work and I should just use an general aerobics setting that just shows time and heart rate.

                      3. Cold water will naturally depress your HR, do you still aim for the same HR zones that you would on land?

                       

                      any suggestions on workouts? I figured I'd just keep it simple and do a ladder 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 min hard with min recoveries.

                       

                      Thanks

                      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 45:24 (2017), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Mary - 3:37:17 (2018)

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                        1. How do you track distance?

                        2. what watch setting do you use? I have an indoor running that I'm going to try but I'm not sure If I'll have a complete enough arm swing for that to work and I should just use an general aerobics setting that just shows time and heart rate.

                        3. Cold water will naturally depress your HR, do you still aim for the same HR zones that you would on land?

                         

                        any suggestions on workouts? I figured I'd just keep it simple and do a ladder 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 min hard with min recoveries.

                         

                         

                        1) general rule of thumb - 10 minutes of easy pool-running ~ 1 mile.   For workouts, I go by what the time would equate to for the interval, while ignoring the recovery, if that makes sense.  So...supposed I normally do 800s in 3 minutes with a 400 jog.  If I was doing 3 minutes hard in the pool, I'd count each 3 minutes as 0.5 miles, but not count any distance for the recovery.  Make sense?

                         

                        Other rules of thumb for pool-running workouts - a) they need to hurt harder than they do on land, and b) you will recover much sooner in the water, so you need to shorten the recovery to 1/3 the time of the interval.  On land, I might do 6-8x800 in 3 minutes with a 400 recovery jogged in 2:30-ish; in the water I would convert to 10x3:00 very hard with 1:00 recovery.

                         

                        2) I use the outdoor swimming mode on my Garmin - that seems to work best.

                         

                        3) Yes, cold water will depress your HR, as will the compression of the water, which assists the return of blood to the heart.  So...do not try to match your land based HR.  About 15-20 beats lower has been what I've found for myself.

                         

                        Workouts - I really like 10x3:00 very hard, 1:00 recovery - it gets you a good aerobic workout, and the intervals are long enough that you get to practice the mental focus you need on the track.  At the same time, if your intervals get too long, your body will conk out and you wont be able to push your HR up.  I think 3:00 hard with the short recovery works well.

                         

                        I also wrote a bunch of stuff about pool-running here, if you are interested.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        Longboat


                        On the roads again...

                          Does anyone have experience with Achilles injuries? I've been battling something there for about 2 weeks. It's weird - it's not in the spot you traditionally think of, i.e. parallel with the ankle bone, but rather in the heel. Its been migrating around the heel which is a great sign because its not some trauma spot.

                           

                          Some quick googling indicated something called instertional achilles tendonitis, which makes sense: its where your Achilles connects to your heel bone. Seems like most calf/foot injuries: massage the calf, strengthen the calf, mixed messages on stretching, ice/heat, and potentially tape. Just want to knock this out quickly rather than it develop into something real.

                           

                          Oh yeah, too much experience! Three long bouts with tendonitis that didn't want to heal, and one surgery to repair a near-100% rupture.

                          What dw said about heel drops. You can try heel raises from a flat floor with two feet, then heel drop with one. Don't make the injured side carry the entire weight for heel raises.

                          I don't agree with icing generally for the A.t. The problem has been there for a while, the initial inflammation, if any, has gone down. The biggest problem with Achilles injuries is that the tendon gets very little blood supply. Heating it may help the blood supply; icing probably reduces it. 

                          Most healing takes place at night, during sleep with the tendon relaxed (feet usually point down -- planter-flexed, during sleep). So the second biggest problem is waking up in the morning, stepping out of bed, bringing the foot back to normal... and tearing out the overnight start of healing. Sleep with a night splint that holds the foot at right angles to the shin. That should reduce the chances of tearing the healing out in the morning. Sounds awkward, but one gets used to it.

                          Next, the first steps of any exercise may also undo the healing. Start out with lots of gentle no-load flexing, no stress on the tendon. Something that helped me was to soak my foot in very hot water for a few minutes while flexing it around. Hot tub if possible, bucket of hot water if not. Get it warm and loose before you subject it to the impact of running.

                          If it's sore after running, that may be time for icing.

                          Neil

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Some actual good news on the marathon front.  Although Wairarapa Country Marathon has typically had a very small field (20-30 runners, and a sub-3 time would generally get you the win), word on the Strava is that the field should be quite a bit deeper this year.  In particular a few decent sub-2:45 Wellington runners are likely to have a go.  Not sure how hard they are all targeting it, but there's a reasonable chance of getting a decent group.

                             

                            JMac - big advocate of taping here for staying on top of niggles.  Not sure how to tape an Achilles properly though sorry.

                             

                            Flavio - at this point I'm honestly not sure what the best strategy is.  We thought we were awesome but then it mysteriously came out of nowhere and we're all back in lockdown again.  Not sure if the lockdown would stick if it happened a third time.

                             

                            Watson - I'm amazed you got sunburnt!  Even at Omaha I didn't manage that (and it got pretty bloody hot up there).  IIRC Pelorus had a surprisingly late start time for that time of year?

                            5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                            HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                            Last race: NZ 10,000m Champs, 21 March, 32:34 (PB) 

                            Up next: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct (I HOPE!!!!)

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              Longboat that's some golden info there on AT.

                               

                              Mark that's great news with a stronger field attending. Better pacing motivation for you.

                              Without sounding arrogant covid is non existent here in Tauranga and even work wise I seem unaffected.

                              50+ PBs -  

                              5k 18.25 Tauranga Parkrun  Sept 20      81.36 % age grade

                              10k 38.55 oct 19 strava run

                              Next race Mount Maunganui half 10k 28th nov 2020

                              " If you don't use it you lose it but if you use it, it wears out.

                              Somewhere in between is about right "      

                               

                              JamesD


                              JamesD

                                 

                                ...Sleep with a night splint that holds the foot at right angles to the shin. That should reduce the chances of tearing the healing out in the morning. Sounds awkward, but one gets used to it...

                                 

                                The Strassburg Sock (available on Amazon) is a popular splint-type product.  It seemed to help me when I had lower calf & Achilles trouble several years ago.  Changing to slightly higher-drop shoes also helped.

                                Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

                                Revised 2020 Goals:  40+ mpw (getting there), 5K<19:30 (not yet); Mile<5:40 (done), no injuries