Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023 (Read 573 times)

Thank you everyone. I do feel I did great. Don't we all want to do a little bit better?

I do feel you can push your body to go farther than you think you can. But there is a breaking point that the body wont go any more. Most of the time it is because we didn't train for it. I don't think if you are training for a marathon, a 100 miler will be easy or possible. Also if you don't fuel right you will bonk. The body doesn't have the fuel to continue the path. I have a friend that has attempted a 100 miler 5 times and not finished. I know she trains but times out every time or has stomach problems. Most of the time the 'dark" places come when I run alone. You are trapped in your own mind and it can be the worst enemy. That is why I love pacers for long races. Keep it a party all night long.

 

 

Krash - I'm curious what you think about that physical/mental split and entering that "dark" place given you've done this more than many of us. I wonder about that in a marathon. There seems to be a big argument these days around whether you can overcome those "mental" barriers, i.e. it's not actually mental but truly physical. Of course, in reality it's all one thing. But I actually think I used to think "it's just mental, get over it," then I came to "you can't overcome this stuff if your body won't let you." However, I think having that latter mindset actually allows you to quit whenever the going gets tough. So one of my goals of 2023 is to go back to the former.

 

 

krash, also from me congrats on your awesome race. Like RP says, if it hadn't been for you setting the bar, that other person probably would not have gone that extra loop. Imagine if you had gone that last day...

Also, that dark place sounds really, really uncomfortable, but it sounds like you've surrounded yourself with the right people to help you get out of those. And as for people being there to help get one out of their head... I've had and appreciated that on any race where it was possible to talk... just having someone ask you "are you injured? Are you unable to control your bowels?" and then saying "Then there's no reason to have those negative thoughts" when you say no can get one through those tough spots.

Dave, I dropped the ball extending an invite to run together next time you're in town to visit your parents! I'm just 15 minutes north.

Also, JMac, you need to find another club! I often have to catch up to people because I'm 3 minutes late to my group runs and they start on the dot. If there's a photo, I may get there just in time for the run. Especially, like Dave, for the long runs on weekends, driving those 20 minutes is worth it as having running mates seems to make the run much more enjoyable. Interesting that you prefer company for the workouts, Mmerkle. That's actually where I prefer to have no distractions and need the least motivation, though I'll admit it's fun to do sets with peers and push to another level than I usually do when alone.

Nice to meet you, Ian! You're about to finish the marathon majors? That's really cool! And also Andy! We have the same 5k PR :-) I think diet doesn't play as much of a role in more leisurely running, but it can definitely affect performance in races and training. It's good to try and focus on that (especially alcohol) as you try to get faster. Though maybe NeedsACleverName can give better advice there, as that's actually his field :-) (nice to also meet you, NACN!)

Flavio, hope you continue to feel better!

Really enjoyed reading through a few of your reports, RP. I used to have a running blog and took the time to type up my race recaps... but dissertation writing killed the blog. Your reports are fun and educational--especially if I ever get to run CIM!

Also I now have two lines from you in this forum that really helped me out this week: "The hardest part of the streak is ending it" and "Sometimes the "injury" is more of a pain than an actual injury." I sat with my feelings a bit over the weekend and decided to end my streak at 316 days, because I have a tendency run myself to the point of serious injury (it's what threw me out of commission in 2020), and I didn't want to be tempted to do that again now--especially given the other things I'm trying to do this spring. Breaking my previous streak record of 477 days will just have to wait. That being said, Keen, your streak is amazing! And I'm glad the ankle thing wasn't so serious that you had to take a day off. Hope it continues to be okay.

My issues seem to be okay. Taking RP's words as a good reminder (yeah, I've had races before where I worried a recently stress reaction would turn to a break.. not a fun way to race), I just told myself to run without fear on Tuesday, and what do you know, the knee thing and foot thing are only slight twinges now... something to keep an eye on but nothing to write about anymore. I will say that the day off on Monday may have helped, plus the sports massage therapy I got on Monday. The therapist was a body builder, and I felt it, but the knee certainly has been feeling better since then. I also had cupping for the first time... and that was interesting. Not sure how much that did, but the massage was gold. Much better than my foam rollers, ha ha.

RP, as for your Boston training, as mmerkle wrote, it's still too early to despair about the training. Stress + poor footing conditions are both equally likely to set you up for injury. Hope both get better soon... You didn't necessarily build fitness last week, but you didn't lose any either.

But Mmerkle, I'm not a sure if I agree about treadmills as good for speed training, even in winter. I don't trust the effort being the same as outdoors...  Most places I've done winter running had at least one track that was kept ice free, and like JMac I've always found plowed/salted routes. But trail running in winter without spikes is no fun (and I'm not a wuss!). Fractured my elbow once trying.

JMac, anytime you run more than a marathon, it's an ultramarathon. Ironman finishers are ultra, certainly, but not ultramarathoners (my $0.02).

Andy - Welcome aboard!

NACN - Welcome back! Do you also coach online on platforms like team run run? And Kudos for going after that knowledge!

Mental strength - As others have said, I find that mental strength helps more during training to keep the discipline. On race day you can only go so far as you have trained.

That said, I do believe the mind can hinder you, as in, you can develop a mental block that does not allow you to reach your potential.

But I don't think if you "think hard enough" you can go beyond your limits. No matter how hard Krash or Jmac think, they're not going to be running 9.57 for the 100m dash.

As an example of tricks the mind can play on you, during 2020 and 2021 I've developed some condition that made me feel much colder than it really was. And it was very real, it was like 10c 50F and I'd be covered head to toe in heavy jackets, but I would not be sweating or feeling hot, despite being overdressed. Then after say 2 or 3 hours that condition would pass and I'd be back to normal.

My mom had fibromyalgia which is essentially a constant pain in some part of your body that is triggered by stress.

Come to think about it, I sometimes have pain/tension on my back which I believe is triggered/induced by stress.

If you manage to be relaxed and mindful of the moment during the race, you have your best chance.

If you are tense, or anxious, or stressed, your performance will be sub-optimal.

Many of us here are extremely competitive and judge ourselves very hard, this can hinder us at times if not managed well.

dktrotter The treadmill is awkward for doing things near mile race pace but I think it's great for tempo and interval training. If you put the incline around 1.5% to 2% it should compensate for the lack of air resistance. I like to use this chart https://www.hillrunner.com/calculators/treadmill-pace-conversions/

I'll also admit that I personally feel that if weather is bad enough, I won't get as good of quality from a workout as I would on the treadmill in the warm and non slippery. I have no shame in saying to hell with that weather. It's just not something I feel the need to tough out and brag about, not saying anyone on here brags but I've met people who do.

dk 8m glad you enjoyed the recaps/reports. As for the injury phrase, I learned it here kind of. I’ve even discussed with friends “do you take a week off and hope it heals, or lose a week of training to find out nothing changed?” It’s a hard balance. 
sorry about the streak. I think it was really good for me last year, and I think starting it early December was also good. Winter came the week after I ended it. Really easy to be glad a streak is over when ice, rain, and snow are the forecast.

Jmac quitting, in my mind, is contagious and a disease. If you quit every time things get hard, then eventually the things you use to say were only moderate difficulty become too hard and you quit. This extends beyond running and into parenting, or work. Why deal with a two or three year old and have to entertain them in public when you can just give them a tablet or phone and keep them quiet? Why run 4x2T when 2x2T seems just as hard?

 

Yeah I think the mental & physical are essentially inseparable. You need the mental toughness to get through the training, to achieve a certain fitness level. Your body only has that fitness level on race day, and nothing mentally can improve that. I feel pretty confident in saying that I have been at a point in races (typically the final miles of a marathon) where I could not go any faster if there was a bear chasing me.

The flipside of this is that it is possible to run your race in training and then be overcooked by race day.  You need the mental strength to push through the big workouts for sure... but it is entirely possible to push yourself too hard in training and effectively run your race before race day has even arrived.  It's not solely about hitting target paces as there's also the mental aspect of psyching yourself up for those workouts.  You definitely need the mental toughness but it's a fine balance not burning all your matches too early.

 

Other random side note: Jmac I am entered in the Brooklyn Half for 2023.  My plan is to snag my qualifying time for NYC Marathon 2024 there, so that I'll have a time from a NYRR race (my standard is a 1:49 half/3:51 full)

On this note, JMac you may have missed my post from last week - does meeting the times guarantee qualification for New York?  Because I can qualify with a sub 1:28 half this year, assuming I can find an AIMS certified race (that is also fast - it's on the edge of my range).

Mark - My ears are burning.  Also, congrats on the future #2 direct descendant.