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What do you do on a training run and you just don't have it today? (Read 1223 times)

BaldMike


    I felt fine going out yesterday, i was to do 1.5 mile warm up, 4x1 mile intervals with 3 minute rest breaks in between and a 1 mile coold down. My mile intervals were supposed to be in the 7:00-7:30 per mile range, but the fastest of the 4 I could muster was 8:09. I was exhausted, had not slept well the night before, etc. But like I said, I felt fine going out until I started running. So what should I have done? Turned around and gone home? Just trashed the intervals session and run an easy 4 or 5 miles or HTFU'd like I did and tried anyway?
    PR 10k - 47: 41 in 2007, goal to break 45 minuntes in 2008 PR 13.1 - 1:44:19 PR 26.2 - 4:24 in 2007, goal to break 3:45 in March 2008 Upcoming races: March 2008 - ING GA Marathon July 2008 - Peachtree Road Race And hopefully the Marine Corps Marathon in October 2008.
    jEfFgObLuE


    I've got a fever...

      Well, if I was that far off my target, I'd call it after one rep , put some easy miles in, and try again the next day. Though I have read that sometimes it's not a bad idea to break a workout into smaller chunks when you're having that kind of day. Meaning, turn it into repeat 800s, but at your target mile pace. You won't get the full benefit, but it's a solid workout. Plus, sometimes trying to save your workout like this helps you get your mojo back; you end up feeling better by the end.

      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

      JakeKnight


        But like I said, I felt fine going out until I started running. So what should I have done? Turned around and gone home? Just trashed the intervals session and run an easy 4 or 5 miles or HTFU'd like I did and tried anyway?
        I'd probably just run easy. Or run slower intervals. Unsolicited advice to follow: Speaking of the intervals ... 7:00 pace is awful quick, even if you're trying for a 3:45 marathon. Why so fast? That's a full minute under your recent half-mary pace and a full 1:30 under your goal marathon pace. You also decided to do those intervals 48 hours after your long run, with no recovery runs in between. A week after racing a half-marathon. I'd think all of the above could lead to feeling crappy during your intervals. If I were you, I'd at the very least wait until later in the week for the intervals. If you do them at all, which is debatable. I'd focus on slightly faster than race pace tempo runs instead, if it was me. And if I did do the intervals, I'd be doing them a full minute slower. At least. Unless you're actually training for a 3:15 marathon. In which case, never mind.

        E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
        -----------------------------

        Mr Inertia


        Suspect Zero

          Run by feel, not by some number on some schedule. If you've got something going on, and you need to adjust your run, so be it. Lack of sleep can be a real killer; if you need to modify your workout to accomodate fatigue, then do so. Look at it this way, putting too much into one specific workout can be wasteful if it harms your other runs. Similarly, if you're feeling great and add in an extra interval or two, that'd be fine, too.
            Well, if I was that far off my target, I'd call it after one rep , put some easy miles in, and try again the next day. Though I have read that sometimes it's not a bad idea to break a workout into smaller chunks when you're having that kind of day. Meaning, turn it into repeat 800s, but at your target mile pace. You won't get the full benefit, but it's a solid workout. Plus, sometimes trying to save your workout like this helps you get your mojo back; you end up feeling better by the end.
            I pretty much second what Jeff had said. I'd say your choices would have been: 1) If you felt you just didn't have it (even during the warm-up); pack up and go for a nice easy jog and go home and don't worry about it. 2) If you felt fine during w-up but when you started doing the first one and you're that much off, stop there and go for a nice easy jog (even for 15 minutes) and go home. 3) Do shorter reps (but, instead of Jeff's 800s, I'd go as short as 200); this way, you'd do some faster stuff and feel like you didn't completely "fail". 4) Forget that day and switch it to the next day (depending on what workouts follow); this way, you won't miss out that particular element of workout in the overall program. Good call, Jeff. I feel way too many people, particularly those who are preparing for the marathon, feel that they HAVE TO run the prescribed workout regardless of how they feel (I've seen so many people posting a question like "I'm supposed to run 12 miles this Sunday and I absolutely feel awful; what do I do?" Well, don't do it!). We all have our own biorhythm (now, this is when you all English speaking people should praise that I, a foreigner, didn't misspell "rhythm"!) and we have good days and bad days. It is no fun struggling through a "failing" workout. I firmly believe that it's far better to have a successful workout and feel good about it (even though you might do a little bit less or slower). Just this weekend, I had a couple of distinct ups and downs: I hurt my back and couldn't run for almost 2 weeks (I did NordicTrack and stationary bike). So on Friday and Saturday, I wanted to go a nice 45~60' run to prepare for a 2-hour run with my girl on Sunday. I did 47 on Friday fine and felt good. But on Saturday, I was not worth crap; I got on a treadmill at the club and struggled @ 12-minute-mile pace. So I stepped off after 20 minutes and sat in sauna and jacczi. Sunday's 2-hour was tough but I managed. Then on Monday, I was flying--did 25 minutes of tough hill (continuous) on treadmill followed straight by 20-minutes at 7-minute-pace. I noticed, as I got older, the gap between good days and bad days had widened :-( But if I try to push on those bad days, I'd go lower and lower. Some old lady might be walking @ 12-minute pace beside me at the club but if I don't have it, I don't have it. I won't try to squeeze something that's not there. Listen to your "Inner Coach"; go by how YOU feel; now what the schedule tells you.
            jEfFgObLuE


            I've got a fever...

              now, this is when you all English speaking people should praise that I, a foreigner, didn't misspell "rhythm"!
              Props to Nobby for the correct spelling of rhythm! Yes And good advice, as always.

              On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                Props to Nobby for the correct spelling of rhythm! Yes
                ...but did I spell "jacczi" correctly???
                jEfFgObLuE


                I've got a fever...

                  ...but did I spell "jacczi" correctly???
                  Nope, it's jacuzzi. But that's an Italian word, so you'll have to blame them instead of the tortured English language. Clowning around

                  On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                    Nope, it's jacuzzi.
                    Oh, rats! And I was stupid enough to bring it up! I knew there is one set of double-letter (either "C" or "Z")... Oh, well... At least I can spell "pizza" correctly! Okay, sorry for digression.
                    BaldMike


                      Thanks, I did modify my marathon training program the week before and after the half marathon race, but just thought that maybe I was recovered and ready, but that was obviously not the case. I guess I should have just bagged the intervals and run an easy couple miles and will do that next time or take a rest day on this advice, thanks!!! As for why I am running that type of interval time, its just part of a prgram that I have put together and that is the time I read I should shoot for on 1 mile intervals. I said shoot, for, not had to make, I have on all my other mile intervals days, but not this one. There was just zero speed in the tank. Yes I am shooting for a 3:45 marathon or faster. Eventually, I would like to BQ, but I am just training my way there. No rush, it might take a year, maybe two or three, again no rush. My first marathon was March of 2007 and I ran a 4:24, but the goal was to finish and see if marathons were for me after running one. I did enjoy it and I am back for a second one and I feel based on my half marathon races that a 3:45 is a good goal, anything under that and I am extremely happy. Considering I will be going from a 10:09 pace in my first marathon to a 8:32 pace, all in 12 months, I feel like that is a pretty decent pick up and not to far for me to reach. My recent half marathon was a 7:58 pace overall and while I could have gone further at that pace, I don't think it could have been 13.1 more. Thanks again and I appreciate all the input and advice. Keep it coming!
                      PR 10k - 47: 41 in 2007, goal to break 45 minuntes in 2008 PR 13.1 - 1:44:19 PR 26.2 - 4:24 in 2007, goal to break 3:45 in March 2008 Upcoming races: March 2008 - ING GA Marathon July 2008 - Peachtree Road Race And hopefully the Marine Corps Marathon in October 2008.


                      Just Be

                        jeffgoblue, question for you... Big grin Following the theme of this thread, I went to the track yesterday to jog 11 miles, but I ended up giving in to the beast within and did about 6 intervals. None of them were at an all-out 100% effort, but I found that, having not run as fast as I did yesterday in 4+ years and especially with all this aerobic work over the past 5 months, my anaerobic systems are shot. Even though I was only pushing at probably around 70% to 75% of my maximum speed, I still couldn't maintain that pace for 200 meters! I'm not ready to start interval work yet until May, so I won't mess around like that again, but my best time for the 100 was 14 seconds (rounded up slightly) and my best time for the 200 was 32 seconds (rounded up as well). My Polar HRM recorded a top speed of 16.5 mph, which sounds about right. It never felt like my gait switched over to a full sprint, I was still at a fast run form. Question for you, based on your book that you mentioned, where does a 200m time of 32 seconds place me in terms of chasing the corresponding mile time? EDIT: modified the 200m time. It was 32 rounded up from high 31.8x, not 34. also... I'm prould to report that in spite of the beast's influence, I still jogged 10 miles out of the planned 11. And today I'm sore like nobody's business! Tongue Hate to think I'm gonna have to deal with this soreness again in May. Maybe I should do a couple intervals at the same effort a couple times a month to keep from losing this adaptation my body is currently going through?


                        SMART Approach

                          BaldMike, That aggressive speed work can be counter productive to building your base unless you are doing a 10K training phase before your actual marathon specific work outs. For you to get faster, you need more miles not faster intervals which can erode the very aerobic base you are trying to improve on. What purpose does 7 - 7:30 pace interval do if you goal time is a pace a decent amount slower than this. I wouldn't do more than 4 X 200M at that fast pace (with full recovery) once or twice a week after some long tempo running. This will perk up your legs just fine without hurting base.

                          Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                          Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                          Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                          www.smartapproachtraining.com

                          jEfFgObLuE


                          I've got a fever...

                            jeffgoblue, question for you... Big grin Question for you, based on your book that you mentioned, where does a 200m time of 32 seconds place me in terms of chasing the corresponding mile time? EDIT: modified the 200m time. It was 32 rounded up from high 31.8x, not 34.
                            Runner92, The book referred to is The Self Coached Runner II by Allan Lawrence & Mark Sheid. Each training schedule begins with a statement like:
                            You are ready to train for a x : xx mile if you can run 220 yards in xx.x seconds and 440 yards in xx.x seconds.
                            And then it gives a detailed, (and rather challenging) 12~16 week schedule designed to get you to the goal time. Here's the breakdown for their 1-mile training programs: Goal Mile / 220yd requirement / 440yd requirement 4:00 / 23.8 / 52 4:15 / 26 / 55.5 4:30 / 27 / 58.5 4:45 / 28.5 / 61.5 5:00 / 29.5 / 64 5:30 / 33.5 / 72 6:00 / 37 / 78 6:30 / 40 / 86 The requirements are in yards because the book is over 20 years old, back when there were still a lot of 440yd tracks around.

                            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


                            Just Be

                              Jeff, thanks a lot for the reply! I really appreciate it. Smile