2017 Sub 3 Marathons...and beyond! (Read 400 times)


    I virtually cheered a couple of virtual friends (not on this forum) running CIM yesterday. Female is hoping to eventually get an OTQ got 2:47xx yesterday. Another friend got his first sub 3 at 2:55xx. Fast course they both said.


    I upped my mileage a little more than what week 3 of the 18/70 has, mainly with 10 instead of 5 on Saturday. I'm feeling pretty good so far as long as I can get decent amounts of sleep. I want to add a few miles per week, but don't feel like I can do the 85mpw plan. I like having Monday off, and I have a hard time getting more than 11 or 12 on a weekday, so I'm not sure the best way to add miles.


    Is it bad to add miles to the recovery days (Thu & Sat)?


    Weekly Summary
    Monday, Nov 27, 2017 thru Sunday, Dec 03, 2017

    Day Miles Pace Duration Description HR Link
    Mon       Rest Day; weights @ gym    
    Tue 11.0 8:02 1:28 Medium Miles; weights @ gym 145 strava
    Wed 11.3 7:46 1:27 More Miles 152 strava
    Thu 5.0 8:48 0:44 Easy 5; a little trail time 0 strava
    Fri 10.1 7:30 1:15 Time for Tempo 160 strava
    Sat 10.0 8:09 1:21 Saturday miles; weights @ gym 146 strava
    Sun 18.1 8:16 2:29 Long Run with faster finish 142 strava
      65.38     Bike commute: 137 miles    

      Flash - Awesome race!  Sub 6 is huge.


      IAM - Great race report.  Did you post the link here?  If not, you should.  A lot to be learned from it, even by us slower folks.  As for the Styrd stuff, seems like it was very precise, even if the accuracy was off a bit.  Since you both trained and raced by the data (for the most part), not sure what else you would have/should have done earlier if you had re-calibrated it to line up with true pace.  But it's super impressive you were able to push through the negative information during the race and keep going.


      Kram - Thanks for the race report.  I think you just had a bad day with your guy not cooperating, and your previous similar experience in the cold was equally bad.  I have hard time believing you need too much of a warm up, even in 32F, for a half.  Even for a guy that thinks getting in to the low 50s is cold, 32 just isn't all that cold.  I mentioned this before, but I'm still impressed you kept it together enough to get the result you did.  That was still quite early in the race for things to turn south. I've had several races like that, and they don't end nearly as well.


      Paul - Your up next!  Hope you get to 2:48.


      Mikkey - I'm liking your OP suggestions.  I'd also like to see the DisplacedDingo come out of hiding and take over.


      My week:

      Weekly Summary
      Monday, Nov 27, 2017 thru Sunday, Dec 03, 2017

      <tfoot> </tfoot>
      Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
      Mon 8.2 8:09 Morning Run 138 (71%) strava
      Tue 8.9 7:05 Ooof! 4x1.5mi in 8:55, 9:05, 9:06 and 9:17 159 (82%) strava
      Wed 4.4 9:21 Morning Run 126 (65%) strava
      Thu 8.2 7:43 Morning Run 143 (73%) strava
      Fri 8.1 7:54 300 in 30 days? 142 (73%) strava
      Sat 15.0 7:25 Morning Run 151 (77%) strava
      Sun 7.2 8:23 Morning Run 132 (68%) strava
        60.0 7:50      


      My first workout of my planned half workouts didn't go as well as I would have liked, but I'm not going to let it get me down too much.  I've got enough time to turn things around.  I noticed on Friday that I would need roughly 300 miles for the month of December to get to 2,300 for the year.  Nothing all that special about 2,300 other than that's what I had last year.  I don't want to be dropping down in mileage two years in a row! I had 2,600 in 2016.  I'll give it a go, but it's going to be tough with a 4 day trip to Taos around Christmas.  Running in ice freaks me out.

      Upcoming races:  Houston HM (January 2019) | A Spring 2019 Marathon (Brighton?)


        Flash:  Congrats again on the marathon.  Can't wait to hear more about it!


        Kram:  Enjoyed your RR.  Not all that bad considering how bad you felt early on.  We have all had those days.  Congrats on the PR though!  And rest assured you're in much better shape!


        Andres: Nice week.  Workout wasn't all that bad, but like you said plenty of time to get the fitness sharpened up.


        Mikkey:  Sounds like you'll have a nice base to jump into your next training cycle.


        Paul: Nice week.  Good luck next week!


        Congrats to anyone who ran CIM this past weekend.  Looked like nice conditions.


        Here is my latest week.  Now inside of 8 weeks until my next marathon.  Pretty happy with my week coming off the strong HM pacing effort (1:21 or so) last Sunday inside of a 18 mile day.  Most pleased with my LR workout yesterday where I ran 10 miles at marathon pace or faster (ending with 2T at 16-18) after running pretty easy for an hour (8 miles) to start off.  Plus it was my longest run since Boston by just a tiny bit Smile


        Weekly Summary
        Monday, Nov 27, 2017 thru Sunday, Dec 03, 2017

        <tfoot> </tfoot>
        Day Miles Pace Description Link
        Mon 7.2 7:46 AM EZ strava
        Mon 4.1 7:47 PM EZ strava
        Tue 10.2 7:48 Breezy Morning Run strava
        Wed 9.1 8:12 EZ w/ Jon & James strava
        Thu 12.2 7:13 4E + 4T (5:59,58,57,46) + 4.2E strava
        Thu 4.3 7:59 PM Recovery strava
        Fri 9.1 7:20 A few Hi-Point laps strava
        Sat 4.5 7:44 EZ + strides strava
        Sun 20.2 6:55 8E + 💩 + 8M + 2T + 2.2E strava
          81.0 7:30    

        5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)


          Flash - Great race, congrats!


          Paul - Best of luck this weekend. What is your goal and pacing plan?


          Kram - Having suffered through my fair share of stomach issues in race, I fully sympathize with you. I sort of second Andres's opinion though, although everybody is different. For a half, even in those conditions, I would think I wouldn't warm up more than about 15 minutes.


          Mikkey - Great job hitting the gym, definitely something most runners lack.


          Matt - Based on your week, I would think the first place to add miles is either Tuesday or Wednesday if you really don't want to run 7 days week. Otherwise, if you wanted to add more on your true recovery days, you should be doubling up. Something like 4 am 6 PM or vice versa works.


          Andres - You didn't run a marathon this fall, a drop in mileage is not the worst thing in the world. Don't just try to cram them in to hit a silly number!


          Weather - You've been in full beast mode lately. I feel like all you need is a) your health and b) a good weather day and you'll be set if you keep up your training.

          5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 36:21 (9/18)  |  HM: 1:20:39 (5/17)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 


          Next Race: Joe Kleinerman 10K (1/5/19)

          Goal Race: Boston (4/15/19)


            Hey everybody! Thanks for the support over the weekend. It was an amazing weekend and I am excited to report back on how everything went.


            But before I do, I would like to give a quick RR for my brother in law who was running his first ever have marathon. It was the true highlight of the weekend...


            Background: He is an athlete, but not necessarily a runner. He is just getting into it and I am pushing him along the way. His training was not what it should have been, but he was looking to average 7:45 pace for his first half. He shows up to the race about an hour and 15 minutes early and has to jump out of the car and run to find a port-a-potty. He kept saying he wasn't nervous, but obviously he must have been a little nervous.... He found a bathroom not far from the start line and took care of business. After coming out of the port-a-potty he heard the announcer say that they were 2 minutes away from sending off corral 3. Well he knew that we was supposed to be in corral 3 so he hopped in line and took off with everyone else.


            It was 2 miles later (at 7:36 pace) that there was a split and arrows pointing 10k runners to the left and half marathoners to the right. NO ONE was going right! He is 2 miles into his first half marathon and he realizes that he just started the wrong race an hour earlier than he was supposed to. He was able to find a volunteer to drive him back to the start line and got back just in time to hop back in with corral 3 and start all over again. Needless to say, it was not the ideal first race and he bonked about 10 miles in. But I am hoping that now he has the bug and will want to come back and do much better the second time.


            In the meantime, I will NEVER let him live it down.


              Flash - Funny story about your brother.  Sounds like one of those crazy running dreams we all seam to have.


              All - Thanks for the well wishes for my race this coming weekend.  I'm still not sure about a goal.  My aspirational goal when I first considered this race several months ago was sub-2:49, but I'm just not sure I'm there.  It's not a 2:49 or bust goal.  I want to do a smart race.  I expect a small positive split both because of the course profile and I expect it to warm up during the race.  I found someone on Strava who did the race last year, and have been looking at his paces and GAPs.  I'll probably use those as a guideline and also run what feels like a sustainable effort.  Weather is looking good - 40F at the start, 55-60 at the finish.


                St Jude Marathon, December 2, 2017 Race Recap


                I am going to apologize now, because this is probably going to get a little long. I've never run as an "Elite" before and it came with some cool perks I'd like to fill you guys in on.


                First off, thanks Swim for posting updates during the race, and thank you everyone else for the words of encouragement and support. It was an amazing weekend. As I stated above, I qualified as an "elite" for the first time (previously run sub 2:40). This came with free entry into the race, expedited check in at the expo, a hotel room for Friday and Saturday nights, as well as an elites only Suite at the finish line. This race actually finishes in a really nice minor league baseball stadium, so the suite and facilities are really good.


                Race morning I woke up way to early, ate a bagel, a banana, and downed a gatorade. About 6:45 I walked over to Autozone to drop some stuff off at the Suite and meet up with the other Elites. Between the half and the full there were about 20 total elites, but only 3 men in the marathon. The suite had a bunch of fruit, powerades and waters for us and we all kind of hung out until about 7:20. Then they lined us all up and people hold signs saying "Elite Runners" lead us through the crowds of people over to the start line. We warmed up, stretched, used our "Elite Only" port-a-potties, and got ready for the race. They even collected all of our warm-ups and bags and had them waiting back in the suite for us when the race was over. It really was nice to not have to worry about some of those little details.


                Temperature at the start was about 45 degrees and was pretty much ideal for the start of a race. I got to say a quick hello to TNWeather (Scott) who made his way through the crowds to come up and say hi. And at 8:00 sharp the race was off.


                The race is a little unique with the half and full starting at the same point and then splitting off at mile 11. It means that I had roughly ten people ahead of me, but the only one that I actually knew was in the marathon was the sponsored guy out of New York, Chris Raulli. He took off pretty fast at 5:36 pace for his first 5k and I had no desire to try and match that. Prior to the race I had decided that if he started between 5:45-5:50 pace that I would try and stick with him, but if he took off I was just going to coast at 5:55 pace and see what happened.


                By mile 11 Chris had built about a 2:30 lead and I was running with a younger runner named Matt. He seemed to be in pretty good shape, but he was breathing way too hard for this early in the race and I wasn't too concerned about him in the long run. Having said that, he hung on way longer than I expected and it was just after mile 17 that he started to drop off. At mile 11 the half and the full split directions and I was hoping to get a good view of exactly how far ahead Chris was in front of me. To my surprise there was a runner in a bright orange jersey between us and it looked like he was about a minute and a half ahead of us. Here I thought I was in second place the whole time, but in reality I was a distant third.


                At the half Chris was a full 3 minutes ahead and telescoping out. I was just staying constant with my pace and felt really good about where I was at. About mile 15 there was a long straight away that I could clearly see the orange jersey. It was at this point that I knew I had him. I don't think that we had necessarily made up any ground, but he had stopped pulling away. I commented to the runner with me that the runner was no longer pulling away and that we were definitely going to catch him. There was a brief conversation about blood in the water and on we went. Around mile 16 someone told me that the leader was 4 minutes ahead and my hopes of catching him dwindled. I resigned myself to staying on pace and simply catching 2nd place.


                Around mile 23 I finally caught and blew by orange shirt. He was obviously struggling at this point and I really felt for the guy. At the 24 mile markers is a half mile of gradual uphill. In my previous 2 marathons I have had to walk on this hill both times. Not today! I felt great and was able to just cruise up. With just over 1.5 miles left I let loose and finished off about 5:50 pace. Finishing with a 4 minute PR with a time of 2:35:49, averaging 5:57 pace.


                I have never felt this good at the end of a race. Below I am posting a a video of the last 200 meters of the race all the way through the finish. Last year I could barely stand as I crossed, this year felt amazing and I kicked it in all the way through. This was a great day and I am so excited about the results.


                I should also say that there is a small * to the race. Chris Raulli ended up slowing pretty considerably after mile 20, and without even pushing I was able to make up 2 minutes on him. I don't know whether or not I could have beat him, but I made the decision at the beginning to run conservative and I got a conservative 2nd place. I am still extremely happy with my race, but there will always be the "what if...." Really, it just makes me want to go out and run another one so that I can do better next time.





                  Flash - nice RR and have to say I am envious of that 'elite' treatment! That is pretty cool. Most races here aren't big enough to justify it, but the Auckland Marathon / Half Marathon has a small elite area and it's pretty useful just having a dedicated port-a-potty that close to the start line. Also hilarious story about your brother.


                  Kram - PR day is still a good day!  Like Andres and JMac, TBH even in cold conditions I wouldn't warm up a lot - just enough that I was comfortable turning the legs over at speed.


                  Paul - good luck for the race!


                  Andres - I might finish the year on a pretty similar number to you! Currently I'm sitting on 3,396km/2,110mi. This week will be a little light with a race coming up on Sunday but should get 3 reasonable weeks to finish the year.  Certainly no risk of ice around here.  For me that will comfortably be a record year (last year was around 2,700km but included 8 weeks out for various reasons).


                  5km: 16:24 (Auckland Corporate Challenge, Nov-18) | 10km: 34:08 (NZ Road Race Champs, Sep-18)

                  HM: 1:15:40 (NZ Half Marathon Champs (Dunedin), Sep-18) | FM: 2:57:36 (Auckland Marathon, Oct-17)

                  Last race: Omaha Half Marathon, 2 Dec, 1:19:15

                  Up next: Bays Night of 5's 5000m, 21 Dec

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  cinnamon girl

                    Flashing Fast !! Nothing wrong with 2nd place! Getting the elite treatment is super nice and helpful. I wish I could see the video but I'm not on Facebook - love it when people post pics. I got spoiled with elite treatment at Chicago and NYC. You don't want to go back .. just like after flying first class. Congrats to you!


                    Paul - your training has looked consistent and great. Time to look back at those workouts that show you're ready. Good luck. WS? holy crap.


                    Kram - thanks for the report - still bummer it wasn't your day and you couldn't show your fitness. It is hard to believe a 1:22 is a PR for you... you so speedy! I ran a HM in Toronto in Fall of 2015. My training up to it had been done in the 90s and had been going super well but then the race was 30 deg and it was just hard for me to move and/or breathe. My muscles and lungs never warmed up. I PRd at that race by one second (1:23:54). I was in way better shape though. Oh well ... too often shit happens we can't control. Kudos for still finishing and the PR.


                    CIM - I saw Kayry did awesome.


                    Mikkey - You should since you're close to retirement. Ha! I do appreciate your support though  I definitely agree you should be getting the miles going again! I hope 2018 will be a good year all the way around!


                    TN - Hey, you ok?


                    Weather - another great week!


                    Yes it was ideal conditions yesterday. If it was today would be totally different. Super ass windy out there today. I ran the 1st 16 mi as a training run then to a brewhouse to drink off being frustrated I wasn't in shape to run it.


                    M: 8.75 mi (7:54)
                    T: 10 mi (7:31)
                    W: 5 mi (8:29)

                    T: 7 mi (7:39) 
                    F: 7.25 mi (7:18)
                    S: 5.6 mi (7:35)
                    S: 16 mi (7:02)


                    Must Go Faster

                      Mikkey don't be flirting with me.


                      Kram: Some days just suck. You are ready to be a 1:18 guy. Give it another go soon.

                      PRs: 5k: 16:45 (04/17) -- 10k: 35:48 (03/18) -- 10m: 58:04 (04/16)  -- HM: 1:17:29 (03/18) -- FM: 2:47:11 (11/17)

                      Goals: 2:44 FM, 16:29 5k

                      Next Up: Cherry Blossom 10 (4/19), Boston (04/19)


                        Cinnamon!  Yeah I'm ok. 2017 was forgettable. After my pelvis healed I developed a stress fracture in my heel coming back to quick. Vit D low. Been riding the bike a bit this fall. Back to running now and up to about 20 mpw. Feeling good but very out of shape. What are you up to?


                        Flash - Great write up!  Seems that races are always filled with what ifs. There is a fine line out there. You felt great post race so maybe you left a little under the hood. Go over that line just a bit too far (like the guy who was in 2nd) during the race and the deterioration is not linear. 2018?


                          matt  - welcome back!


                          Andres/Mark - I'm pretty close to you guys for yearly mileage. Just crossed 2500. That's actually a record for me, that's because I did two marathons with training up to 75 mpw.


                          Flash - great race, very impressive! And that story about your bro was hilarious!


                          Mikkey - I thought calbears did a nice to get a sub-3 at CIM, after all, he is about 54 and had not run much this year (source: Strava). I think he crammed 70mpw in the last few weeks like a madman to pull that off.


                          Cinnamon - Hey there! You need to get an ADP entry into Chicago 2018, if you have an eligible time. I've sent this thread to the two masters women that I run with, so they are least lurking at this point, maybe they'll post sometime soon.s


                          Strugglr - It's time to focus on Cherry Blossom, we need to get Dingo out of retirement! I'll probably do it, since I have a seeded time. Not sure I can pull off sub-60, but it's nice to think about it.


                          Paul - good luck this weekend!


                          All - My vote is for a new thread in 2018, let this one go to the archives, new thread new luck for Boston 2018! Hopefully, someone will volunteer to kick it off, otherwise, I may have to bring back the throat punch process for extracting volunteers. Wink


                          PR's - 5K - 17:57 (2017) | 10K - 38:06 (2016)  | 13.1 1:26:36 (2017)  | 26.2  2:58:46 (2017)

                          2018 Goals - Sub-2:55 Marathon                                Up Next: Broad Street Run, Chicago Marathon


                          Elite Jogger



                            Mikkey - I thought calbears did a nice to get a sub-3 at CIM, after all, he is about 54 and had not run much this year (source: Strava). I think he crammed 70mpw in the last few weeks like a madman to pull that off.




                            Definitely and I hope that means he starts posting again! Iirc he’s only a few months older than me so probably just turned 52 and not that old. 


                            Flash - Great RR, but your bro in law story was even better!  He probably wouldn’t have bonked at mile 10 if he had time to chill out pre race and not ran the first 2 miles of the 10k. Don’t give him too hard a time!


                            Cinnamon - Thanks for the encouraging words and I hope that your 2018 is good as well... starting with the Houston marathon in January?  I saw your post in the CIM thread and curious to know why you wouldn’t choose it as a goal marathon? I would also love to run NYC again....A, because I know the course now and would do much better....B, because it’s by far the best destination marathon I’ve run...and C, I need to beat Flyrunner’s NYC PR!


                            Fly - You might have to start the new thread if we get desperate...or what about JMac11?  He’s been the most enthusiastic marathoner this year!


                            Paul - Good luck on Sunday!

                            5k - 18:29 (2018)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:22:06 (2017)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)


                            Next Up: 

                            cinnamon girl

                              TN:  It just seems so weird to me that you got stress fx. Your training was never real crazy jumps in intensity or miles or anything. Plus the years of miles you already had on your legs. I thought your training always looked model like. Seems undeserved! It feels like just yesterday when we were all 44! I hope to follow your training for St Jude 2018! As per my norm, I don't know what I'm up to but I'm ok.


                              Fly: I went to Chicago's site and see now they have a different time for Masters (sub 3:13 is pretty soft!) I had ADP in '12 when it was sub 3:01 for everyone. I don't have desire to run it again. It would be great if your female friends would join here if they're interested.


                              Mikkey: Houston was a gut reaction. Plus January is still too early with new job. I've chosen Paris in April. Sounds idyllic anyways. And uh .. so you're not retiring after London! Sweet! You need to run NYC again I agree.

                              cinnamon girl

                                Matt: 85 mpw on 6 days?