The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition (Read 444 times)

zebano


    I've been avoiding looking but while it's supposed to reach 45F today, the temps absolutely plummet after dark and at race time tomorrow it's supposed to be 13F and windy with a ReelFeel of -10F. Ugg. Time goals are gone, just gonna bundle up and run hard.

    1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

    CommanderKeen


    Cobra Commander Keen

      Zebano - It seems like this will be a race to see who's the toughest. Best of luck!

      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

       

      Upcoming Races:

       

       

      Fredford66


      Waltons ThreadLord

        I've been avoiding looking but while it's supposed to reach 45F today, the temps absolutely plummet after dark and at race time tomorrow it's supposed to be 13F and windy with a ReelFeel of -10F. Ugg. Time goals are gone, just gonna bundle up and run hard.

         

        Zebano - Best of luck tomorrow.  Definitely better for the primary goal to be staying warm rather than a time.

         

        Mark - Sorry for the late reply, but I'm fine with you just posting the dates of races and not worrying too much about targets or results.  Congratulations on winning the race on your home course.  Time to start plotting when your daughter will be faster than you?

         

        CC - I prefer quite roads too, but have to deal with busier ones just to have some variety in routes.  That said, whenever possible, I try to get off the busy roads quickly (or even better, just cross them).  My RP is more tolerant of traffic and some of his routes make me uncomfortable - a matter of personal preference, I guess.

         

        Keen - Best of luck Sunday.

         

        Thank you to all those offering kind words and congratulations on my 5M (and my year in general).  I officially started training for my spring halves yesterday (i.e. did the first workout of the Hansons plan).  Contrary to the plan, however, I intend to run some shorter races while training.  Question to the group - is there a rough relationship between times in street races and times in trail races?  I know a lot depends on the trail, but in general should I expect to be 10% slower on a trail?  25% slower?  More?  I ask because I have a 5k trail race coming up later this month and have no idea how to run it or what pace to start off with.

        5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
        10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

        Upcoming races: RunAPalooza (Asbury Park) HM, 4/6; Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27

         

        zebano


           

           

           

          Thank you to all those offering kind words and congratulations on my 5M (and my year in general).  I officially started training for my spring halves yesterday (i.e. did the first workout of the Hansons plan).  Contrary to the plan, however, I intend to run some shorter races while training.  Question to the group - is there a rough relationship between times in street races and times in trail races?  I know a lot depends on the trail, but in general should I expect to be 10% slower on a trail?  25% slower?  More?  I ask because I have a 5k trail race coming up later this month and have no idea how to run it or what pace to start off with.

           

          There is way too much variability in what constitutes a "trail" to make any sort of estimate. When I was in the shape of my life 4 years ago, I went out to Colorado and ran a few trails and they were so hilly and nasty I was running 13:00/mile. I have some back here that are basically packed dirt and flat and I run 5 seconds per mile slower than roads.

          1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

          Fredford66


          Waltons ThreadLord

             

            There is way too much variability in what constitutes a "trail" to make any sort of estimate. When I was in the shape of my life 4 years ago, I went out to Colorado and ran a few trails and they were so hilly and nasty I was running 13:00/mile. I have some back here that are basically packed dirt and flat and I run 5 seconds per mile slower than roads.

             

            Thanks.  Deep down, I thought that might be the case.  There's a winter series of 5 runs on the same trail.  Maybe I'll run a few of them - the first to get the lay of the land and then another few to see what I can do.

             

            ETA:  I ran in two different shoes today.    One model on my left foot and another on my right.  They were by the same manufacturer and had the same basic color scheme, so on quick glance they're similar.  I only discovered the difference after the run when I took a closer look at why one seemed to have shorter laces than the other (which I noticed, but didn't investigate, when I was putting them on).  I ran three miles without noticing anything.  Shows how much attention I'm paying to how I feel on short, easy runs....

            5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
            10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

            Upcoming races: RunAPalooza (Asbury Park) HM, 4/6; Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27

             

            Marky_Mark_17


               Question to the group - is there a rough relationship between times in street races and times in trail races?  I know a lot depends on the trail, but in general should I expect to be 10% slower on a trail?  25% slower?  More?  I ask because I have a 5k trail race coming up later this month and have no idea how to run it or what pace to start off with.

               

              A bit slower, or a lot slower, depending on the trail.  Zebano's answer is bang on the money.

               

              For reference, I ran a trail half on reasonably good quality trails with a few moderate hills last year, I think 1:19.  In contrast, the trail half I've got coming up next Saturday normally gets won in around 1:35-1:40 (and as a fairly inexperienced trail runner, I might be slower again!) - so that's a good 25% slower than another trail!

               

              The other factor to bear in mind is that it can change the style of running quite a lot too.  If it's a good quality gravel or packed limestone trail, that's a different proposition to a more technical trail with lots of tree roots or ruts where sometimes you have to think quite carefully about where you plant your feet.

               

              The trails will be great for your running though - they'll make you stronger for sure.  I've been thoroughly enjoying my trips out to the forest lately.

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

              Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              ccoakley


                Zebano, I had to run it twice yesterday and twice today but I stole back the legend on my block from my neighbor for ya 

                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                 

                 

                Marky_Mark_17


                  Caitlin - hooray!!

                   

                  Last week of training for me before the trail half next weekend and last long run out in the forest.  I've been testing out the Hoka Tecton X but like some Hoka shoes they just seem to be a bit... clompy, so I think I'm gonna go with the Salomon Pulsar's instead which feel a lot more agile.  My goal for this race is simply "don't die" (it has sand dunes, a stream crossing and some savage hills).  I've only raced one trail half before which was (a) in the middle of winter and (b) on much better trails, with (c) a lot less hills, so I'm definitely going in with the mindset of respecting the course.  It'll be tough, and slow, but it may even be fun.

                   

                  Weekly for period: From: 28/11/2022 To 04/12/2022

                  Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                  in m
                  28/11 That run where it’s that point of the year where you’re counting down the weeks 5.00 8.04 00:36:51 07:22 04:35 18
                  29/11 That run where the interns look so young 8.73 14.05 00:56:59 06:32 04:03 33
                  30/11 That run where the grey humid soup of early summer in Auckland drifted in 8.77 14.11 00:59:01 06:44 04:11 41
                  01/12 That run where the track’s not normally that splashy in summer 9.38 15.10 00:54:24 05:48 03:36 132
                  03/12 That run where coach was unusually generous with the recoveries 7.61 12.25 00:46:11 06:04 03:46 79
                  04/12 That run where a pine forest is a great place to score a Christmas tree 🎄 11.94 19.21 01:26:33 07:15 04:30 448

                  Total distance: 82.76km (51.4 imperial crescent wrenches)

                  3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                  10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                  * Net downhill course

                  Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                  Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  CommanderKeen


                  Cobra Commander Keen

                     

                    Thanks.  Deep down, I thought that might be the case.  There's a winter series of 5 runs on the same trail.  Maybe I'll run a few of them - the first to get the lay of the land and then another few to see what I can do.

                     

                    ETA:  I ran in two different shoes today.    One model on my left foot and another on my right.  They were by the same manufacturer and had the same basic color scheme, so on quick glance they're similar.  I only discovered the difference after the run when I took a closer look at why one seemed to have shorter laces than the other (which I noticed, but didn't investigate, when I was putting them on).  I ran three miles without noticing anything.  Shows how much attention I'm paying to how I feel on short, easy runs....

                     

                    This begs the question: are you going to repeat this with the mismatched shoes the other way around so you can even out the mileage?

                    5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                     

                    Upcoming Races:

                     

                     

                    JamesD


                    JamesD

                      Nothing noteworthy this week, just continuing to recover from my half.  Race-related aches & pains have mostly gone away, so I’m back to just the usual ones.  Hope to get my mileage up to normal next week.  Didn't enjoy today's World Cup match, but it was a reasonably good showing overall for the very young U.S. team.

                       

                      Sun - 5 miles in park PM @ 8:14/mile faster than expected

                      Mon - ~25 minutes swimming

                      Tues - 4.2 miles in park @ 8:3?

                      Weds - 6.2 miles in park @ 8:32 

                      Thurs - 7.3 miles in park PM @ 8:32

                      Fri - ~32 minutes swimming (and covid booster shot)

                      Sat - 6.2 miles very slow on treadmill (72 minutes) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins

                       

                      Total - 28.9 miles

                      YTD Average - 34.5 mpw



                      Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)

                      '24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32

                      Fredford66


                      Waltons ThreadLord

                         

                        This begs the question: are you going to repeat this with the mismatched shoes the other way around so you can even out the mileage?

                         

                        That would be the proper thing to do, wouldn't it?

                        5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                        10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                        Upcoming races: RunAPalooza (Asbury Park) HM, 4/6; Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27

                         

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          James - was a tough match for the US to draw at that stage.  I'm happy because the Australians got knocked out.

                           

                          Fred - I agree with Keen's query.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                          Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          Fredford66


                          Waltons ThreadLord

                             

                            Fred - I agree with Keen's query.

                             

                            I likely won't do the reverse to get equal mileage on the shoes.  1)  it was only three miles.  2)  once I know the shoes are different, it's almost certain my mind will exaggerate the difference and mess up my run.

                            5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 
                            10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)

                            Upcoming races: RunAPalooza (Asbury Park) HM, 4/6; Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27

                             

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                               

                              I likely won't do the reverse to get equal mileage on the shoes.  1)  it was only three miles.  2)  once I know the shoes are different, it's almost certain my mind will exaggerate the difference and mess up my run.

                               

                              You could throw out all the shoes and get new ones....

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                Marky_Mark - I've honestly never understood how any Hoka shoe could be anything but "clompy" - that is the perfect word for those shoes.  I appreciate the sanity of next week's race goal.  "Any race you can walk away from."

                                 

                                James- nice steady week for you.

                                 

                                My week:


                                52 miles running, 5.5 hours pool-running, and 1000 ~yards swimming.

                                M: 90 minutes pool-running
                                T: Upper body weights/core and 11 miles very easy (9:41) plus drills/strides
                                W: 12 miles, including a track workout of 4800m, 3200m, 1600m in 22:11, 14:26, 7:00 (5:00 jog between each). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swiming.
                                Th: 2 hours pool-running and streaming yoga
                                F: Upper body weights/core and 12 miles very easy (9:41) plus drills/strides
                                Sa: 17 miles, with 2x5 miles in 37:38 (7:32 pace) and 38:39 (7:44 pace), followed with injury prevention work and 500 meters recovery swimming.
                                Su: 2 hours pool-running and streaming yoga.

                                 

                                The new medication I'm taking really helps.  I upped the dose on Friday, and I couldn't believe how great my running gait felt at times during the first part of Saturday's run.  It definitely seems to wear off though, so I need to figure out how to schedule taking it around racing.  But still, things are moving in the right direction in terms of fixing my running.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.