3:20 Marathoners ... New and Improved for (the rest of) 2017 (Read 372 times)

oh and one more thing, maybe a bit philosophical ... what would you all do in this situation?
i am probably in 3:15 shape. various calculators have me between 3:12-3:16, based on average 63mpw and a recent (rather subpar) HM of 1:32:20. my PR is 3:21:05. the harder we try to run our best possible race result on a given day, the more likely we are to overreach, struggle in the end, blow up a bit - correct?
would you:
1) "go for it" - my best possible race time on 12/3, and accept the higher risk of fade, blowup, not even PRing, etc.? (my PR is 4.5 years old. i was also in ~3:15 shape in the spring, it was Hot, it went poorly, i ran a 3:25.)
or:
2) run more conservatively - say, 3:17 pace - to ensure higher likelihood of a PR/sub3:20/whatever, while still having a chance of notching things down towards 3:15 in later miles if things are going well?

Familiar territory. CIM 2016 I was aiming for 3:12. A WEEK before the race someone commented on Strava (sub 3 local) I was in 3:15 shape. I'm sure Ilana remembers my plan to aim for it. This is where my "It's not richmond/Boston/Morgan hill etc." comment comes in. CIM isn't any of those races. What happened there, or didn't, doesn't matter for CIM. CIM is it's own race and needs to be treated/approached as such. Put all the previous races behind you and focus on CIM.

CIM 2015.

What I did in 2016.

200 miles in November 2016 with a 16 miler at 8:22 pace on November 13. Hanson training plan.

Pretty much aimed for it from the start. I decided I was going for it before I showed up Sunday. I wish I could pull my race review. At halfway I remember thinking something along the lines of "time to drop the hammer" as I made the left hand turn since I decided if I was feeling good I'd still go for it. Around 23 or 24 it became me vs the race. Suck up the pain and push. "Give me 15 minutes" went through my head over and over. I'm VERY confident in your ability to go (sub) 3:15 this year. The weather gods are smiling on you. #ripthatbitchup.

Oh, and I was always excited for Thanksgiving because it means the race is here, no more long runs and I get to take a break. I also quite drinking from Black Friday until race day. Unsure if it helps but I've PR'd CIM every time I've done it and I think I wore orange both times too.

As for running with weapons I'll just say if you have your car keys it's possible to use them as a weapon. Reach into your pocket and try and get a key between each finger. Use it to punch someone as needed. It probably isn't the easiest thing to do in a run but it's something every "woman's defense" course mentions as an option for protecting. I agree with the whole "activating pepper spray while in a run" might be the weirdest thing to do and I haven't encountered a single person who carries it who has actually practiced using it to know how it works (safety/unlocking, distance, realizing wind will blow it back in your face, etc). Just some advice.

ace: Congratulations. My wife had a dream DS was 9 lbs 2 oz, full of hair and came out talking.

arvind as others have said, listen to the advice here. dw's analysis of your race starting too fast is possible. I had a blow up for my first marathon doing the same thing.

max congratulations on the overall victory.

races Too many to keep up with. You folks are serious about your running.

kk hope all is well. I enjoy your parenting updates on the page of faces.

ME: meh, running has been minimal. I'll need to pick it up for Chicago if I'm serious about a 3:10 or faster race. Speed is going to be tough to get back. Wife is 39 weeks today. She's OVER being pregnant and just ready for the kid to come. Grandma comes to town and DW is hoping to deliver before so she doesn't have to tell grandma she isn't allowed in the delivery room (this could all change) and DW is afraid of how she will take it. I'm just expecting a phone call that she is at work (hospital) and I need to leave work. Her work put up a baby pool (date, weight. etc.) and her old boss said 12/12/17 (two weeks plus a day). I said 12/11/17 (day grandma leaves) but 11/29 would work for Optimus Prime. Honestly I'm not worried about anything at this point and I realize it would be a lot easier if he arrives to this world while grandma is here for two weeks. I'll probably tell people here before anyone else.

Got the message Loud and clear . I will try to pace my next marathon accordingly.

My goal for the next race is 3:15 to 3:18. Next race will most likely be Chicago (Oct 2018). What can I start doing from now to achieve my goal

 

arvind as others have said, listen to the advice here. dw's analysis of your race starting too fast is possible. I had a blow up for my first marathon doing the same thing.

 

I guess the tune-up 100k is a real thing. Sitting in the Raleigh airport waiting to fly home after two chaotic but mostly good weeks during which I spent 14 hours at home. Phone catch-up so brief. The reply box scrolling on this phone sucks. Wow, and editing is nearly impossible.

Jim's Kat: If you'll be happy with 3:17 I'd aim for that. If you're in better shape than that, it won't be a perfect race but it seems like it would be 99% of perfect and you can always run another. That NF50 course change is weird and a pita with start and finish in different places.

Headphones: I use them somewhat regularly but can hear and I also look over my shoulder at times. I don't think it's headphones, it's staying aware. Rules about headphones should be replaced with one that says "Be aware and courteous, not oblivious.". I've been stuck behind plenty of people without headphones who are chatting or on some other planet. Also, I was falling asleep once on a very steep hillside  even after 7 zillion mg of caffeine and music was the only thing that woke me up

Spray: I considered carrying it for Issy Alps (very real chance of meeting cougars - three attempts have ended due to cougar encounters) but chose not to after I read that some significant % of users spray themselves . Also, since one can lasts 7 seconds what happens if the cougar circles back for a second pass? I finally got Zen about it and decided it would either be my time or not. I didn't lie down on the trail for a dirt nap though..

this is one of those posts that will prompt Dad to say "there are so many things wrong here"

I also got two new pairs of shoes: Ghost 10 and adidas adios. I tried the adios on Friday and just could not keep the pace above 8 mpm. I did 4x1k after a 10k "warm up" and felt great (3:38-35-36-28). This is my first pair of "faster" shoes since I would mostly use wave riders for most of the racing before, so I can't believe how light they feel. On the other hand, I do feel the road a lot more in them. So, question: has anybody had any experience running marathons in them? And HM? Especially asking to taller / heavier men (size probably has an impact on how much the shoes can handle), but happy to hear any insights.

I'm not going to be that helpful, since I am most definitely NOT a taller/heavier man.

I use the Adios Boost 2 for track workouts, and for racing anything 10K and longer, including marathons.  I also run in the Adios Boost 3 (what you most likely have) - I don't like those quite as much as the Adios 2 - the 3 is a bit softer and more flexible, while the 2 is very stiff (I like a stiff hard shoe for racing).

I've run three marathons in the Adios Boost 2, and the shoe has felt great the entire race - no foot soreness or other issues.  But again, I'm small and light, with a very light and quick foot strike.  I use the Nike Free as my daily trainer for runs up to 12 miles in length, sometimes on concrete.  That tells you something about my stride and what shoe I can handle.

I would suggest running a 20 miler in them during your next cycle, with some miles at MP.  If you like the shoe at the end of that, you'll likely like it in your marathon.

7 miles easy today (8:58).  Opted to run outside and skip yoga and the pool so as not to contaminate others.  I don't feel awful, but still a bit run down.  Hopefully this clears by Thursday.

DkW and PJ - thanks for the input on the adios! I like your idea DkW (so you did end up being very helpful). I was going to do a 20 miler during the cycle in them and see how they felt, but I do like the idea of throwing some MP miles in there as well. PJ, I did have some annoyance (I wouldn't call it pain) on my knee at the beginning of my first run in them, but it went away after a few miles. I'm hoping it was just adapting to a new shoe that is very different from the ones I've run in before. I'll probably use them for a HM during the cycle too and see how they feel.

ace - I actually ran my first race ever (a HM) in the ghost 7. For some reason, I just kept trying different shoes and never went back to them. I forgot I really liked them. Like you say, they have a good balance between cushion and weight. While the wave riders feel a little lighter, I find them a tad bit on the hard side for a trainer. I was also curious about the kinvaras as racers, which you've mentioned before. I may give them a try if the adios don't work out.

SC - nice week, good to see you here!

brew - good luck with the last week! I'd put my money on 12.5.17, just because 12+5=17. But I definitely hope it's earlier.

arv - glad to hear recovery is going well. You still have a looong way to Chicago 2018, so I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet. FWIW, I have been trying to keep a decent mileage (30-50 miles per week if possible), including one day of speedwork. But I am starting a new cycle in a few weeks. In your case, you seem to already be keeping a very good volume even a week after the marathon, with 41 miles and a HM. Just make sure you don't over do it for now. Some reduction or a break may help, like brew suggests.

Katia: Wow, that is literally "close to home" for an attack. That's amazing that the woman was able to fight back! Glad to hear the run went well. As for staying safe, I run through residential neighborhoods that are well lit in the suburbs. If it's dark, I have a headlight. Also, I run with my husband about 75% of the time. Regarding the pepper spray, I agree with Darkwave about it being difficult to use. I wouldn't mind carrying it, though, in case a dog started to attack. I am more afraid of being attacked by a dog while running than a person. There are a few dogs that have invisible fences that are aggressive, and if those dogs are out, I have to modify my route.

Ace: Cute baby!  She will be destined for sub 3:20! That's awesome you were still able to get your workout in! And ahhhh-- a 5K in the 17's would be AceMazing!

Commander: Sorry to hear about the cold. 8 Days sounds like it really hit you hard. I like your approach to the HM of focusing on having fun! It's great when you are in that fun race environment but not feeling the race pain!

Ilana: That's so col about your ski resort. Even though I would have zero desire to ski or mountain bike, it sounds cool for those who enjoy that.

Jim E:  That's really awesome that you were able to help someone PR in the half. Sorry to hear about the knee. I wish I had some advice for you but it sounds like you are doing all the right things.

RLK: I think that judging it based on how you feel is a good thing. Typically 2 weeks out I am so fit that a 22 miler is pretty easy, as long as I don't try to make it my fastest long run ever! But it's always better to err on the side of caution when the race is so close. A 16 on trails and hills can be tougher than a 20  on flat pavement so it sounds like you will get in a good workout. (Or "got" a good workout - I am late reading your post so now it's probably done.)  As for your other question, my vote is for you to pace for a 3:17 for the first half and then if you are feeling good, speed up at the halfway point (gradually). And if something does go wrong, at least you won't be blaming yourself for going out to fast. I just had a big bonk at my marathon, but I'm not regretting going out too fast. My first 10K averaged a pace of 7:33 (3:18) when in reality I was shooting for a 3:16, which was in line with all the calculators and my coach's assessment.

Dad4J: Congrats on your XC race. 9th overall is impressive, especially considering you were the first person over 22 to finish.

Runner Jones: Totally agree on the headphones. I used to wear them while running outside, but recognized how dangerous this was about 4 years ago. I also don't race with headphones, so it makes sense not to train with them. But on a treadmill - they are a must!

Climber: Cool about the coach!

Rovatti: Fantastic week. I'm always impressed by runners who can do 10 the day after a long run.

Darkwave: Nice week for you. Sorry to hear about the throat. Are you running the Alexandria Turkey Trot or the SOME 5K? Or a different one? I will be running my 12th consecutive Virginia Run 5K. I'd have to be on my death bed to not run it, and even at that I would want to be wheeled. It's my longest standing running tradition. Greg is on year 9.

Pesto: Wowsers! That's amazing about the half marathon/MP run for you and helping others to PR. I haven't worn either of those shoes, but I love my Adidas Adizero Tempo for racing.

Arvind: It's truly a miracle that you were able to run a half so quickly after your full. I'm lucky if I can run 5 miles at a snail's pace the following weekend. How did you manage to recover so quickly!?

pepperjack: you're right! My new goal is 18:28. There's no way I could even think of running in the 17s.

pesto: I ran the columbus marathon in Kinvaras. No foot issues, but we also know how that race went, so...

elizabeth: glad to hear the achilles is improving. What are you aiming for at the 5k?

Dwave: goal for your 5k as well?

brew: it's almost time?!?  Those deer in your strava post looked awfully chill for walking through a neighborhood.

Anybody else running a turkey trot?