Flying Pig in Cincinnati (Read 850 times)

jEfFgObLuE


I've got a fever...

    Do you guys believe in The McMillan Running Calculator?
    Sure, but like everything in life there are caveats. Click Here And here And here These are all different spots in the same thread. A lot of folks around here use McMillan, but take it with a grain of salt, as indicated in the links. Cheers, Jeff

    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

    jEfFgObLuE


    I've got a fever...

      My avatar is the logo from the monkey marathon. I am beholden to that beast. JK is just an ape.
      And PerfesserR is the one who takes JakeKnight to school and keeps him in line... Wink

      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

      RunFree7


      Run like a kid again!

        Can any of you guys help with this question. http://www.runningahead.com/forums/post/61826f12ee8c4917b2e259131e911b7e#focus
          2011 Goals:
          Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
          Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)


        Imminent Catastrophe

          ... Any clue how you did it - if you were having trouble recently getting under-4:00? Sounds like you've got a BQ time waiting in the fall ...
          I hope so, I have renewed confidence now. Anyway, here's what I've been doing different lately: Flying halfway around the world and getting very little sleep probably didn't help. The weather was really pretty nice, just enough breeze to keep it cool. Training: I'm using a plan (more accurately a guideline) from Marathon & Beyond magazine. Basically, a lot more training at tempo pace (7:25-7:45) and goal MP (8:00). I worked into it gradually to avoid injury. Started with fartleks (1,2,3-minute bursts), then tempo runs (warmup, tempo, cooldown), then ran races (5k, 10k, 15k) at tempo pace. The result is that I am MUCH more comfortable running at 8:00-8:30/mile than I used to be. That's both physical and mental. I'll increase my runs to MP runs of 13.1 and 18 miles and add more hillwork. (BTW my log is misleading as I sometimes don't know exactly how to categorize these runs). Plus every run I do is hillwork, just becuse of where I live. I've been working the hills harder, which really helped at the Pig, the hill up to mile 9 didn't bother me at all. Like I said, I just kept an eye on my heart rate monitor to avoid going out too hard. The other aspect is nutrition during the race. I've figured out that after about two hours running I really can't stand to eat anything sweet, whether it's gels, bloks, beans, whatever. I did eat a pack of sportsbeans around 8 and half a pack of (caffeinated) Shot Bloks around 20, but it was all I could to to get them down. I can tolerate sportsdrinks but I don't really like Gatorade or poorly mixed "whatever the race provides". The result is that I just don't eat enough carbs during the run. So this time I had my own bottle with concentrated Hammer "Perpetuem", a favorite of ultrarunners. It's got a pleasant and not too sweet taste. I had 800 calories total in that bottle and every water station I just took a quick squirt (about 1-1/2 oz.), then water from the volunteers. So I was well-supplied with carbs (Perpetuem is maltodextrin, which is supposed to absorb better than sucrose). It seems to have worked. Plus, I'm not forced to drink Gatorade (Pig), Accelerade (CMM-yuck!) or nothing at all (ING Georgia). As you can see from my log, my mileage has not been that high, averaging about 40 so I think I can get those 9 minutes if I train harder. I'm tentatively planning on Tucson in December for a BQ, and more quality training in the month leading up to that, hopefully peaking at 55 mpw or so. I also want a backup, probably in January--any ideas? BTW do yo read "Marathon & Beyond"? It's a really great magazine.

          "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

           "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

          "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

           

          √ Javelina Jundred Jalloween 2015

          Cruel Jewel 50 mile May 2016

          Western States 100 June 2016

          Trent


          Good Bad & The Monkey

            BTW do yo read "Marathon & Beyond"? It's a really great magazine.
            YES!! Great mag. I am looking into giving it to Monkey Runners, although it is not clear that I can make it happen in '07. I have been reading it for around a year. Good stuff. And a monkey tells me that the September issue will have in it two of the best articles EVER included in that mag. Just sayin'. Oh, and the Gatorade at Pig was the high-sodium Endurance version. I guarantee that almost nobody trained with it, and they were all surprised. I have a tough stomach generally, so no problems here. Many I know were less fortunate.


            Why is it sideways?

              Training: I'm using a plan (more accurately a guideline) from Marathon & Beyond magazine. Basically, a lot more training at tempo pace (7:25-7:45) and goal MP (8:00). I worked into it gradually to avoid injury. Started with fartleks (1,2,3-minute bursts), then tempo runs (warmup, tempo, cooldown), then ran races (5k, 10k, 15k) at tempo pace. The result is that I am MUCH more comfortable running at 8:00-8:30/mile than I used to be. That's both physical and mental. I'll increase my runs to MP runs of 13.1 and 18 miles and add more hillwork. (BTW my log is misleading as I sometimes don't know exactly how to categorize these runs). Plus every run I do is hillwork, just becuse of where I live. I've been working the hills harder, which really helped at the Pig, the hill up to mile 9 didn't bother me at all. Like I said, I just kept an eye on my heart rate monitor to avoid going out too hard.
              Thanks for posting this. In a certain sense it reopens a discussion we've been having for quite a while. I've become much more committed over the past several months to the idea that the quality of volume should be the central focus of marathon training, but here it seems like you've had success in focusing on the quality of marathon-specific intensity. One thing I think about in my training is how to get comfortable running faster paces, and it seems like this is a really good plan for doing that, particularly if you've been working at the marathon for a while and are looking to get over a particular pace hump. For folks who run two marathons a year, perhaps it would be optimal to focus on volume for one marathon, pace on the next, working the two notions against each other almost as levers to vault yourself to a new level of running. Another option would be to blend each approach in each season--3 months of volume, 3 months of marathon-specific intensity. I'd be interested to hear what folks think. Great stuff, Perfesser.
              Trent


              Good Bad & The Monkey

                However, as I clearly demonstrated, there is a risk of doing too much at your goal marathon pace or faster. After three months of running nearly every mile at this effort, my body felt broken on marathon day, even despite a good taper. The high-intensity work needs to be couched in a hefty base of easier aerobic miles to allow the aerobic system to develop and to permit adequate recovery from the intensity.


                Why is it sideways?

                  O.K., I just looked at Perfesser's log and saw that intensity is not really the focus of the training. You've got some hard efforts every week or so, but what you describe makes it sound as though you are out running "a lot more training at tempo pace (7:25-7:45) and goal MP (8:00)." "A lot more" in this case just looks like "a little"--meaning once a week or so. The rest of the week is actually very easy mileage (MP+1:30) with multiple days off. Plus, there are EASY LONG runs, like marathons and over. You say your log is misleading...am I reading your log right?
                    However, as I clearly demonstrated, there is a risk of doing too much at your goal marathon pace or faster. After three months of running nearly every mile at this effort, my body felt broken on marathon day, even despite a good taper. The high-intensity work needs to be couched in a hefty base of easier aerobic miles to allow the aerobic system to develop and to permit adequate recovery from the intensity.
                    I agree. I think a lot of people come at this problem from one of two extremes: either they do nearly all of their running at aroud goal marathon pace and faster, or they do hardly any. To me A LOT of running at MP or faster would amount to maybe 16 miles out of a 60 mile week. That would be broken up into a couple of large chunks (like tempos) and a lot of small chunks (like 2 minute on / 1 minute off type stuff) but almost never would an entire run wind up being at or below goal marathon pace and it would always be surrounded by a lot of easy running. For example today's run I would consider a pretty hard mid-week run--not quite workout level but pretty hard. I did 10 miles with 8 x 2 minute pickups. Not sure how fast the pickups were but I can guess they were maybe between 10K and 10-mile race pace. But other than the 16 minutes when I was running pretty quick, the rest of the time was easy mileage and the whole run wound up averageing nearly 7:20 pace, more than 45 seconds per mile slower than goal marathon pace. And that will wind up being one of my fastest 2 runs of this week.

                    Runners run


                    Imminent Catastrophe

                      However, as I clearly demonstrated, there is a risk of doing too much at your goal marathon pace or faster.
                      Yes. I clearly demonstrated this in 2005 also, too much fast running resulted in a stress fracture. By a "lot more", I really mean, "some" because previously I was doing almost none. I still do a small percentage of my training at MP or tempo and that's after over a year of almost exclusively slow, aerobic base building.

                      "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                       "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                      "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                       

                      √ Javelina Jundred Jalloween 2015

                      Cruel Jewel 50 mile May 2016

                      Western States 100 June 2016

                      jEfFgObLuE


                      I've got a fever...

                        Yes. I clearly demonstrated this in 2005 also, too much fast running resulted in a stress fracture. By a "lot more", I really mean, "some" because previously I was doing almost none. I still do a small percentage of my training at MP or tempo and that's after over a year of almost exclusively slow, aerobic base building.
                        Forgive my ignorance, but aren't stress fractures more of a function of quantity of running as opposed to speed? (And also to sudden increases in either of the above?). Just askin'

                        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


                        Imminent Catastrophe

                          O.K., I just looked at Perfesser's log and saw that intensity is not really the focus of the training. You've got some hard efforts every week or so, but what you describe makes it sound as though you are out running "a lot more training at tempo pace (7:25-7:45) and goal MP (8:00)." "A lot more" in this case just looks like "a little"--meaning once a week or so. The rest of the week is actually very easy mileage (MP+1:30) with multiple days off. Plus, there are EASY LONG runs, like marathons and over. You say your log is misleading...am I reading your log right?
                          Not really, and it's because I don't really "compartmentalize" my runs. For instance, many of my "easy" runs are on my local route which is very hilly and I generally hit the hills fairly hard, so MP+1:30 on a really hilly course is more intense than it sounds. Flying Monkey, anyone? Also, much like Mikeymike, I am frequently mixing in fartleks/pickups into a run that I will log as "easy", because the overall effort is not so hard. I frequently don't note that in my log. Then add in my shorter races which I run at tempo (MP-:30-45)--I'm using them as training runs, not races, and I think it's about 15 percent of my weekly mileage at MP or tempo and that's about the maximum that I think is prudent.

                          "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                           "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                          "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                           

                          √ Javelina Jundred Jalloween 2015

                          Cruel Jewel 50 mile May 2016

                          Western States 100 June 2016


                          Why is it sideways?

                            Yes. I clearly demonstrated this in 2005 also, too much fast running resulted in a stress fracture. By a "lot more", I really mean, "some" because previously I was doing almost none. I still do a small percentage of my training at MP or tempo and that's after over a year of almost exclusively slow, aerobic base building.
                            Cool. This and the post above clarify. Thanks!
                            RunFree7


                            Run like a kid again!

                              I think this discussion kind of goes along with my future plans. I plan on running a 5k with in the month with a pace under 7:30 (my BQ). Then I need to find a race that is either 10K or 15K a month or two after that with the hope of running it at a 7:30 pace. A lot depends on weather conditions for these races. I will then start to train for Dayton which is on 9/15. Hoping to run that at a 8:30 and learn how to even up my splits. This is a flatter course then the PIG. I will start out slow 8:30 and then see how it goes from there. I think a big problem with the flying pig for me was that I was running at an 8:05 pace for the first 13.1. This race is strictly "I want to finish strong" marathon and get used to eating more during the run (Gel Shots, Beans etc.) A training Marathon. Then on Oct 21 I will run Columbus and the goal will be to run at an 8:15 pace. This is a much flatter course then Dayton. Then I will train for the PIG and when I get done I plan to eat Ham and Bacon to celebrate my Boston Qualifing time! I know wishful thinking but hey why not. Oh yeah forgot to mention that I will run at least 40 miles every week except the taper weeks.
                                2011 Goals:
                                Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                                Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                              Trent


                              Good Bad & The Monkey

                                BTW, Pig race pics are up. I need to learn to smile more.