Forums >Running 101>Feeling discouraged yet again
What all the others said is great. What jumped out at me, and I think is the simplest answer, is that you need to run six times a week, even if they are only 2-3 miles each, and slow. Avoid the walking. Your log shows only three runs/week.
I'd second this but with the caveat that I wouldn't even worry about distance yet. I'd start by just trying to run for 10 minutes straight without any idea what your pace is. When you can do 10 then it's time to try for 12 etc. Until you get up to 30 minutes at some pace (no matter how slowly) I wouldn't stress about distance or speed or about targeting a specific race.
Take this with a grain of salt though because I am injured 1-2x per year due to poor training practices.
Oh boy, I am scared to open up this can of worms, but I need to know. And yes, I already did some poking around other threads using the search option before I dared post this. Here goes.... I am currently training for my second HM. I am not fast. I am not a long-time runner. (Just 5 years). I am still learning new things every day about running. My first HM was a dismal 2:55:00 - for the most part, my plan was a run 3 min/ walk 1 minute until I finished. And to keep my HR mostly below 170 for as much as possible. My approx maxHR is 191-195. My time sucked so much due to a poop issue right off the bat, and numerous stretching breaks throughout the race. (both of which were due to inexperience, and arrival to the race later than anticipated). Alas, the main reason I am even attempting this race again is to simply improve my time. I'm pretty sure I can do it in 2:25:00 if I dont have issues again. So here's the deal: Lets assume my maxHR is correctly tested at 191. Let's also assume my approximate LT HR is about 168. Please dont ask how I tested, and the specifics. Lets just assume that's what it is. Also, a couple of weeks ago I decided to change my running form and pay closer attention to better mechanics - I am trying to forefoot strike more, lean slightly forward, and keep my knees below my hips. Natually, this will lead to faster turnover (not quite 180, but higher than what Ive been running previously) and even more naturally, a HIGHER heart rate! Thus my greivance.......my LT HR sucks as it is. Being that I have to run/walk just to keep me as aerobic as possible, how the hell can I possiblly change my form, i.e. increase my turnover, and still be able to stay below 170-ish? Its impossible. For instance, a 12mm mile run for me will very quickly shoot my HR up above 168....probably around 171-172ish. So already, I am above where I want to be. When I do speedworkouts, my HR is definitely 185 - 195. I am damn near puking. When I do my "tempo" runs (I am not even sure what that means for my level of fitness anyway), I am trying to keep my HR in the mid 170's - lo 180's. But I have no idea if this is optimal. Oh yeah, and I'm STILL RUN/WALKING for all of these. Its almost as if my HR will NOT stay below 168 unless I am solely walking. Anything less than a 12mm is painful for me and obviously I can't maintain proper form I want to improve my LT HR, so my Ironman athlete friend told me I should do more speedwork to push my body to the limits and let it get used to it. Is this right? What do I need to do in order to get past this run/walking thing? Do I need to see a cardiologist, is something wrong with my heart that it shoots up so quickly? Oh, and please dont tell me to run by feel - I am still too much of a newbie to even know if what I "feel" is too much, too fast. What I seem to think is an acceptable out-of-breathness is what everyone else would say is faster than "conversational pace" I've learned over the years that I was consistently running in Zone 4 and 5 for ALL of my runs, even though I "felt" ok during them. I know there are alot more questions I have, but I can't think right now.
Oh boy, I am scared to open up this can of worms, but I need to know. And yes, I already did some poking around other threads using the search option before I dared post this. Here goes....
I am currently training for my second HM. I am not fast. I am not a long-time runner. (Just 5 years). I am still learning new things every day about running. My first HM was a dismal 2:55:00 - for the most part, my plan was a run 3 min/ walk 1 minute until I finished. And to keep my HR mostly below 170 for as much as possible. My approx maxHR is 191-195. My time sucked so much due to a poop issue right off the bat, and numerous stretching breaks throughout the race. (both of which were due to inexperience, and arrival to the race later than anticipated). Alas, the main reason I am even attempting this race again is to simply improve my time. I'm pretty sure I can do it in 2:25:00 if I dont have issues again.
So here's the deal: Lets assume my maxHR is correctly tested at 191. Let's also assume my approximate LT HR is about 168. Please dont ask how I tested, and the specifics. Lets just assume that's what it is. Also, a couple of weeks ago I decided to change my running form and pay closer attention to better mechanics - I am trying to forefoot strike more, lean slightly forward, and keep my knees below my hips. Natually, this will lead to faster turnover (not quite 180, but higher than what Ive been running previously) and even more naturally, a HIGHER heart rate! Thus my greivance.......my LT HR sucks as it is. Being that I have to run/walk just to keep me as aerobic as possible, how the hell can I possiblly change my form, i.e. increase my turnover, and still be able to stay below 170-ish? Its impossible.
For instance, a 12mm mile run for me will very quickly shoot my HR up above 168....probably around 171-172ish. So already, I am above where I want to be. When I do speedworkouts, my HR is definitely 185 - 195. I am damn near puking. When I do my "tempo" runs (I am not even sure what that means for my level of fitness anyway), I am trying to keep my HR in the mid 170's - lo 180's. But I have no idea if this is optimal. Oh yeah, and I'm STILL RUN/WALKING for all of these. Its almost as if my HR will NOT stay below 168 unless I am solely walking. Anything less than a 12mm is painful for me and obviously I can't maintain proper form
I want to improve my LT HR, so my Ironman athlete friend told me I should do more speedwork to push my body to the limits and let it get used to it. Is this right? What do I need to do in order to get past this run/walking thing? Do I need to see a cardiologist, is something wrong with my heart that it shoots up so quickly?
Oh, and please dont tell me to run by feel - I am still too much of a newbie to even know if what I "feel" is too much, too fast. What I seem to think is an acceptable out-of-breathness is what everyone else would say is faster than "conversational pace" I've learned over the years that I was consistently running in Zone 4 and 5 for ALL of my runs, even though I "felt" ok during them.
I know there are alot more questions I have, but I can't think right now.
If you are walking at those high heart rates, you need to shift your thinking to long-term. Because it looks to me, what you are doing is heading towards injury and overtraining. You are aerobically deficient and need a lot of work at lower aerobic heart rates. You might have to walk for a while, until you an run everything. It could take a few years. But if you stick with it, it will pay off in the end. Here are a few links, take it or leave them. Read the case study. It shows what happens if you think long-term.
Aerobic runningMAF tests180-age formula6-time Triathlon Champ Mark ALlen on heart rate trainingMark Allen on Base Training Heart Rate Training Case Study
Good luck!
--Jimmy
Why is it sideways?
To the OP: I read your write-ups of some of your runs, and I have to say that I think you've been getting some bad advice from the folks you have been interacting with.
I am not going to tell you to run by feel, but I am going to tell you that you certainly should NOT be thinking about your LT or doing speedwork to lower your LT. That is a bunch of total nonsense, and actually it makes me sorta angry that people are filling your head up with this nonsense. In case you haven't noticed, the world is full of well-meaning people with a dangerous amount of knowledge.
(I may be one of those people. There are tons of them on the internet.)
I want to tell you one simple thing that will (I hope) help you concentrate on what's important. In coaching an athlete, one of the most basic principles is not to change too many variables at once, and your case demonstrates why.
You have too much going on, too many variables in the air. That's why you are confused. You are at the beginning of a process, and you need to start at the beginning and work towards the end. (I know, duh.)
The first variable, the sine-qua-non of training is: consistency. You need to be laser-focused on consistency. That's why LedLincoln's post is right on the money. Without consistency in training, you can't have anything: aerobic development, form, strength, speed--all of these things depend on consistency.
So, if I were your coach or your friend, I would ask you to focus on a simple thing: What do I need to do to develop consistency in training?
I don't know the answer to this question, but I would say that these are the sorts of things that help other runners achieve consistency:
1) Forget about trying to run faster. Be happy when you get out the door and get it done.
2) Incorporate walk breaks if you feel like walking.
3) Develop the habit of running every day.
4) Take away the things that create anxiety and complicate the process and distract you from your goal of developing consistency in training. (In my opinion, your heart rate monitor is one of these things.)
I don't know much, but I do know that if 4 -6 weeks from now you have gotten to the point where are running or run/walking 2-6 miles every day (with an occasional day off), and it feels like a habit, then you will be in a very good place.
I bet that in the process of getting there, you will even find out what the next "variable" to change--over the next 4-6 weeks--will be (and you won't have to ask your geeky tri-friends, rely on inspiration from awesome but a little over the top books like Born to Run, interpret lab-speak from silly running-lab technicians, or suffer abuse from random strangers on the internet) because you will know your own running.
The second thing you should do is smile. Every. Single. Run. Research has shown that even a fake smile will create a positive association with whatever task you are doing, and will therefore make the overall experience more positive. Plus, it makes other people wonder why you seem so damned happy.
That makes me smile. This is my sister and I running our first marathon. We smiled the whole way!!
cewickbe you have gotten some great advice. Take it and enjoy your running. Running should be the thing that makes your life less stressful...not adds stress to it.
That makes me smile. This is my sister and I running our first marathon. We smiled the whole way!! cewickbe you have gotten some great advice. Take it and enjoy your running. Running should be the thing that makes your life less stressful...not adds stress to it.
Great pic! Now I am smiling
To the OP: I read your write-ups of some of your runs, and I have to say that I think you've been getting some bad advice from the folks you have been interacting with. .....In case you haven't noticed, the world is full of well-meaning people with a dangerous amount of knowledge. ... Good luck!
.....In case you haven't noticed, the world is full of well-meaning people with a dangerous amount of knowledge.
...
Great post!
There are many people here that know what they don't know.
There are some people here that don't know that they don't know.
There are some people here that don't know that they know
There are a few people here probably know that they may not know.
There are a few people here probably know that they know.
There are a few others that know that they know.
The challenge for us that read these forums (and learn from others outside of these forums) is to figure out who is who and what they know (or don't know).
OP, Listen to the words of the wise (whoever the wise are)
Cheers,Brian
(FWIW, I know that I don't know).
Life Goals:
#1: Do what I can do
#2: Enjoy life
Consistently Slow
The first variable, the sine-qua-non of training is: consistency. You need to be laser-focused on consistency. That's why LedLincoln's post is right on the money. Without consistency in training, you can't have anything: aerobic development, form, strength, speed--all of these things depend on consistency. Good luck!
I was wondering where you were.
Run until the trail runs out.
SCHEDULE 2016--
The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff
http://bkclay.blogspot.com/
And I'm quoting him again. I find that I need to run six days most weeks in order to improve. I've been running for 8 or 9 years, and did all easy runs up till about a year ago, when I started doing a tempo run once per week. It's been working for me.
That speedwork stuff is for people with a solid aerobic base and people that want to get the last ten minutes off their marathon time.
I don't know if this will help you, but here's my story. In January, after an 8 week hiatus, I reviewed my running for the last six months and was frankly discouraged. I thought I'd been running consistently since July, but when I reviewed my logs and was honest with myself, I realized I was not really being consistent. I put all ideas about races and dreams of ultras (ha ha) aside and set one simple goal: running every day for the month of February. Didn't have to be fast or slow, long or short, no tempo or speed work mumbo-jumbo, nothing ambitious; just every day, somewhere between two and four miles. I accomplished that goal today, and it's the single best thing I've ever done for my running. I won't say that's what you should do; I'll just say it worked for me. It helped me to realize why I run (we all have different reasons) and that I am willing to commit to it.
Good luck! The hard work really is worth it!
I don't know if this will help you, but here's my story. In January, after an 8 week hiatus, I reviewed my running for the last six months and was frankly discouraged. I thought I'd been running consistently since July, but when I reviewed my logs and was honest with myself, I realized I was not really being consistent. I put all ideas about races and dreams of ultras (ha ha) aside and set one simple goal: running every day for the month of February. Didn't have to be fast or slow, long or short, no tempo or speed work mumbo-jumbo, nothing ambitious; just every day, somewhere between two and four miles. I accomplished that goal today, and it's the single best thing I've ever done for my running. I won't say that's what you should do; I'll just say it worked for me. It helped me to realize why I run (we all have different reasons) and that I am willing to commit to it. Good luck! The hard work really is worth it!
That should build her up.
(Someone will get that.)
That should build her up. (Someone will get that.)
That's some good Foundational stuff.
#artbydmcbride
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