Forums >Running 101>Soccer player needs help!
I hope you don't mind this slightly off-topic question, but I am looking for some training advice for my 16 yr old son who is a soccer player.
In about 5 weeks, August (17th), he has to run a 2-mile time trial as part of his high school soccer tryout. He needs to do it in under 12 min. Many of the soccer trainers and coaches we know (not including his HS coach) tell us this is not a very soccer-specific metric for fitness, and they have always recommended that he focus on speed work (10, 20, 30 40m sprints) and high intensity interval work and to avoid long distance running per-se, because it can effect the fast twitch muscle fibers etc and doesn't necessarily help with the type of soccer fitness that includes lots of short to medium sprints with jogging and walking in between.
He has been training consistently since school shut down in March, and last week he ran a test 2-mile at 12:35. He is a big boy - 6'1 175 lbs and not heavy at all for his frame. His soccer-endurance training over the past 3 months has consisted of 3 "running" session per week which are usually 30 min in duration. A typical run might be 4 min tempo interval w/ 4 min rest repeated 4 times. Or 60 meter shuttle run in 10 sec, rest for 15 seconds, and repeat for 15 min - rest 5 min and repeat (2 15-min sets total). About 3 weeks ago he ran 12 400's at the track at his goal pace, which would be 90 sec/400, will a 100m walk in-between and was able to complete it without a lot of difficulty. However, last week he tried to do 6 x 800m intervals at race pace of 3:00min/800 with 100m walk in-between, and by the 4th one his heart rate was above 190 and he couldn't finish.
My question is... with about 5 weeks to go, can anyone recommend anything that he could do to try to help his fitness and get his time closer to 12 min? He has no trouble running easy "long" distances. At the end of May when he needed a little soccer break, he took a week and ran 45 min per day at and average heart rate of 155 and felt fine. He ran about an 8 min/mile pace. However, whenever he tries to do interval running closer to the 6 min/mile pace, his heart rate goes quickly up to the 80-90% max heart zone, which is hard to maintain. For example, when he ran his 12:35 2 mile, his average heart rate was 182 and his max was 196.
We are not sure if long slow runs would help at this point, or running in a certain heart rate zone for a certain time would be more effective. He has a heart rate monitor, so zone training is possible. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
thank you,
Michael
an amazing likeness
You know...a version of this question comes up a lot: police fitness test panic, military fitness test panic, some other qualifying standard. The replies are all over the board from specific to general advice.
My opinion is that the challenge is running more, running faster and at the same time not overdoing it and getting hurt. The runner needs to get more comfortable with the discomfort of the needed pace. Run more, mostly easy, sometimes hard. Progression laps on the track, up the ladder to all out...then down. Then recover a few days. Then longer tempo, then recover a few days, etc.
fwiw
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Agree with milktruck. Your training plan seems pretty sensible.
One thing that helped me for such a thing is to do ladders. Every 1/2mile (800m) drop 15sec off the pace. Start slow. End about 30sec below objective pace. Then ride the ladder back up. The take-away is that on the way down, each step feels harder. Objective pace feels hard, but then -15s from that and then -15s from that again, feels impossible. HOWEVER, on the way back up Objective pace feels like a complete pleasure. The purpose is to break any psychological barrier he might have for the pace -- if you think that's the problem. (avg total pace should be much easier than a full run at objective pace -- I was training for marathons, so maybe 400m intervals is better for him).
Then again, it's hard to argue with heart-rates.
Best of luck!
2021 Goals: 50mpw 'cause there's nothing else to do
SMART Approach
2 mile run has a heck of a lot aerobic component to it. Let's try to keep it simple. Right now your son is running each run hard and teaching body to adapt to anaerobic spurts. Not a lot of pure aerobic running. Hold off on so many time trials. Your son is lacking aerobic base. I recommend your son add one more day per week where he just runs an easy 4-5 miles. Also, on the other days of his training I recommend adding an easy 1 mile run before his drill work and 2 miles easy after. He still gets his fast drill work in The benefit is he increases volume of running and not both volume and intensity. Doing both is too much. These extra miles should be easy pace. Below 140 avg HR. This should serve him well. One day per week on the day he does is tempo like work I would rotate one week 10 x 400m at goal pace with 200 m slow jog between. The following week do 5 x 4 min at around 6:30-6:45 pace. With 200 m jog between. These help build stamina which is his weakness now. Again after this work out a very easy 2 miles after. I think your son will be fine in 6 weeks. On the week of test, be sure to tell son not too hammer work outs as he needs to absorb his training and go into the time trial feeling pretty good. Also know on test day he will have added adrenaline.
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I am curious what happens if no one runs 2 miles in 12 minutes or only not enough to have a team.
Is 12 minutes just a a goal or will it keep you off the team.
What happens if the returning leading scorer runs over 12 minutes
I am curious what happens if no one runs 2 miles in 12 minutes or only not enough to have a team. Is 12 minutes just a a goal or will it keep you off the team. What happens if the returning leading scorer runs over 12 minutes
I think we all know the answer - at least approximately. Probably, it just only a test - just for an information. If there are any cuts, then those coaches have no idea what football/soccer is about. Anybody knows that a ball moves much faster than even Usain Bolt - so, having technically skilled players is much more beneficial than having fast runners. Of course, there should be some reasonable level of fitness, no doubt, but the maximum I heard of (and actually went through that) is having a Cooper test - just to see where your aerobic fitness is. You don't need to make cuts because fitness can be improved with a little bit of time and determination, and even if your fitness sucks, you just spend your time on a bench instead of playing. So, I think your son just needs to understand how to keep some level of fitness all year around and for that, the advice given here is really good.
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Biomimeticist
In reading your post, I'd openly tell you your son's coach knows very little about training to be an athlete for his sport. Maybe can teach how to kick a ball, but not how to run and optimize playing performance needs of the game. Not to mention this is a highly myopic group of vultures who know nothing beyond this distance running, "forum." Your sport's physical demands are over the heads of the regular posters here...
First off, soccer is a speed of time endurance for the game, not running any race in the shortest time. If your opponent is a quicker runner than you, then pass the ball to someone else. Nobody can run quicker than a ball can be kicked, so the focus on speed is primarily useless unless you focus on improving your sprint running technique (also different for a sport like soccer given you have to handle a ball as well as try to run as fast as possible controlling it).
As for the competition, one of the reasons I enjoy teaching soccer players is because I focus on the endurance of the 30 or 45 minute halves of the game rather than wasting time improving sprinting speed. While quick bursts of speed are necessary, in the bigger picture of the game, soccer is a competition of outlasting your opponents, not outrunning them..
Since I use treadmills to develop endurance skills, being able to train to meet the distance needs of the game is a far more efficient approach to being a more effective player.
I found this article which references the real skill and that's how far a player actually travels for the duration of the event. With soccer, they document 7+ miles per game. This casual link gives a better picture to running in a game rather than a race...
https://airows.com/adventure-and-sport/how-far-do-athletes-run-in-each-major-sport
Train to the 7 miles per time of game, and the endurance path will generate far better return on your training investment
How quick anyone runs in a game is important, but peak speed is rarely executed, the game is being able to keep moving given most of any player's time is away from the ball for the game.
Experts said the world is flat
Experts said that man would never fly
Experts said we'd never go to the moon
Name me one of those "experts"...
History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong
Since I use treadmills to develop endurance skills, being able to train to meet the distance needs of the game is a far more efficient approach to being a more effective player. I found this article which references the real skill and that's how far a player actually travels for the duration of the event. With soccer, they document 7+ miles per game. This casual link gives a better picture to running in a game rather than a race... https://airows.com/adventure-and-sport/how-far-do-athletes-run-in-each-major-sport Train to the 7 miles per time of game, and the endurance path will generate far better return on your training investment How quick anyone runs in a game is important, but peak speed is rarely executed, the game is being able to keep moving given most of any player's time is away from the ball for the game.
As a former field hockey player, what you say is almost completely wrong. Admittedly field hockey is slightly faster than football, but the core structures and associated effort levels are very similar.
In these sports you generally only have 2 paces. A jog to stay in position when play is a long way from where you are, or a sprint. The sprint can either be on the ball, or off the ball to get into position or support play (by definition the latter is always going to be faster).
The 7 miles per game is a function of probably 4 miles of sprinting and 3 miles of jogging. The sprints will never exceed 50m and will normally be a lot less than that. The effort levels are therefore almost completely binary. Endurance training is therefore less helpful than specific interval training, with short efforts and recovery in between - much like what most soccer trainers the OP mentioned suggest. While an athlete needs to have the muscular endurance to be able to sustain this over 90 minutes, it's much more about training the anaerobic system to sustain effort and recover quickly than the aerobic system.
Coming back to the original post - and I agree with others that a 2 mile TT is not a great fitness test for soccer - I would personally that heart rate training has been the most beneficial for me in terms of developing my distance running ability, particularly early on.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
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what you say is almost completely wrong.
Given the source, that goes without saying...
The difference being my first soccer specific student is playing soccer at a Division One school on full soccer scholarship. I've done it once, doing it again is easy.
Not to mention being Dutch, I grew up on skates. In fact I skated regularly with world record holders and could out corner them with ease (I skate with no leg crossover in turns). My uncle coached hockey teams to world championships for their age groups. To tell me a hockey background is credible is a long stretch...
Hockey is short bursts of intense speed. The physicality of it is why you're rotated out frequently to push your opponents with playing intensity. It's also why the drug creatine is popular with it's players and not rowers. The real comparison to your sport and soccer is in asking what percentage of game time does any hockey player spend on the ice in ratio to the length of the entire game? It's nowhere near soccer's.
Training per the speed perspective is no different than training to be a fast two mile runner and entering a 10K race. If you can't cover the distance for the length of a game in the long run, how quick you are for the short bursts won't matter...
I would very much love to see someone on skates playing field hockey.
Just in case you don't know what field hockey is, it's 11-a-side and played on a field, much like football. The core principles and structures are very similar to soccer, it's just a bit faster and has no offside rule.
Dude. You left out the most important differences! Instead of a great big ball it's played with a little ball. Instead of moving the ball with your feet you move it with a wooden candy cane.
<parody>I train for field hockey by dribbling a soccer ball like a t-rex on a treadmill set to 20% slope while carrying 50% of my bodyweight on my head. When I do this, my heart rate is lower than my resting heart rate. I emailed the most famous field hockey coaches and they were amazed! I have the emails to prove it. If you can't prove to me why this works, why is your education worth anything compared to mine?</parody>
Many football players are very fast runners, and they spend a lot of their body's resources. This is their work and they choose it themselves, but in good clubs, players get a very good salary and I think their sacrifices are worth the money.
There is no other way but intensive training. Your son needs to run a lot, but it's important to alternate running with other exercises, such as stretching and jumping rope. This way of increasing endurance is useful for reducing muscular tension. You can start with 15 minutes, alternating legs and gradually increasing the time. As a result, fat is quickly burned, the cardiovascular system is normalized, and almost all the legs, buttocks, and abs muscles are trained. There is also a forum footy, where you can discuss with fans of soccer training, probably there are experts.
He doesn't have much time. Besides not overdoing things and getting injured there's not a ton of fitness improvements that can be made in four weeks. And he needs to taper a little the last week.
Might help to lose 5-7 pounds. That's doable in a month. Like a fighter or wrestler trying to make weight. Maybe talk to some guys on the wrestling team. Running with 5% less weight might make him faster enough.
Born: 1973
Marathon PR: 3:44 (2000)
5k PR: 22:02 (2022)
1 mile PR: 6:09 (2022)
Goals:
5k - 21:42
Mile - 5:59
400m - 1:10