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Introduction and Looking for Advice (Read 132 times)

    Have not done any road cycling or racing since 2004. Raced here in New England from 1998 until 2004 which was great but after that started playing in a golf league, met my wife, and that was it as far as physical activity other than the gym. Started running in the fall of 2017 to train for a 2 mile race and really loved the idea of competing and preparing for races again. The exhausted feeling after a hard run, the nervous energy before a race, the party like atmosphere of most 5K races  and the spent feeling after a race is why I do it at this point.

     

    Jay

      The exhausted feeling after a hard run, the nervous energy before a race, the party like atmosphere of most 5K races  and the spent feeling after a race is why I do it at this point.

       

      Same.

       

      Only in my case I'd add: the camaraderie of long runs with friends.

      Runners run.

      hog4life


        You’re getting older! You should be running easier paced runs. There’s lots of great advice here. I just want to add that age is working against you. I’m not saying you can’t be competitive or fast, I’m just saying you “must” take a different approach than when you were in your twenties. I’m 58, and I can tell you from experience, our bodies need time to adjust and more recovery time compared to when we were younger.

        Half Crazy K 2.0


          Brad Hudson's book Run Faster also has 2 3-day per week programs geared towards master's runners. One is geared towards a 10k, the other for a full. His plans are a little more varied than the Run Less Run Faster ones.

           

          Oh, and I totally understand not wanting to do cycling races. I did both road and mountain bike races in college. The men's cat 5 races were downright scary to watch. Luckily for me, the women's races were much smaller, although it really sucked when they were so small that they lumped everyone together. First road race I did had maybe 10 women, 1 was a master's national champion.

           

          I tend to buy used copies of the running books from Amazon,  often I pay more for shipping than the actual book.

            You’re getting older! You should be running easier paced runs. There’s lots of great advice here. I just want to add that age is working against you. I’m not saying you can’t be competitive or fast, I’m just saying you “must” take a different approach than when you were in your twenties. I’m 58, and I can tell you from experience, our bodies need time to adjust and more recovery time compared to when we were younger.

             

            I actually get injured far less than when I was younger.  Knowing one's body and how it reacts as well as taking proper care of it can make up for aging.  I'm not sure if you read my original post in its entirety but I pointed out that I got injured even with cycling when I started at age 28.  Now I almost never get injured while cycling.

              If you truely are focusing on a time let's say a year from now you may see progress on your harder 3 days per week approach but nit without risk. If you are truely looking at becoming a better and faster runner 1 year, 2 years, 5 years from now.....the continual hard approach is going to stall your progress sooner than later. Think of slower miles and more and more miles going into your bank for later progress. I used to train your way in my 20s and 30s and pretty much had my same race times year to year. Could not progress at all. At age 38 I started doing things more traditional with easier mile mixed in with faster stuff in a structured way. I PRed at all distances up to half marathon by age 40.

               

              We want you to enjoy running so it is really up to you on how much better and how far you want to go as a runner. Adding another day or two per week of easy  running (recovery runs) would be a first step and help a lot even if you keep everything else the same.  I also agree about finding a 5K and racing it all out to see your current fitness. Generally easy miles are 2:00 min per mile slower than 5K race pace give or take.

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                With your cycling background your aerobic fitness level is well ahead of your muscular skeletal abilities.  Your body is not used to the pounding nature of running. The increased speed, also increases the impact forces of running. I would imagine with your limited mileage background you also may have some running mechanical issues.

                 

                All of these issues can be adjusted with increased amount of SLOW easy paced miles. I'll be honest, when you say you don't enjoy them, thats just your ego talking.   Grab a friend or some music and enjoy the view as you adventure through some single track trails or on a through a nice road run and slow down.  As you body adapts to running you can adapt your training to include more higher intensity workouts.

                 

                You can say you got injured more as you were younger, but that is not because you are more resilient to injuries as you were younger, it just means you were not all that smart about your training back then either.  You should be including dynamic warm ups before running and use the first mile of the run to ease into your natural easy pace range. Follow up with some running form drills will help if you have any running mechanical issues as well.

                 

                "Some people create with words, or with music, or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's style. It's doing something better than everyone else. It's being creative."-pre

                www.runcanvas.com

                 

                  With your cycling background your aerobic fitness level is well ahead of your muscular skeletal abilities.  Your body is not used to the pounding nature of running. The increased speed, also increases the impact forces of running. I would imagine with your limited mileage background you also may have some running mechanical issues.

                   

                  All of these issues can be adjusted with increased amount of SLOW easy paced miles. I'll be honest, when you say you don't enjoy them, thats just your ego talking.   Grab a friend or some music and enjoy the view as you adventure through some single track trails or on a through a nice road run and slow down.  As you body adapts to running you can adapt your training to include more higher intensity workouts.

                   

                  You can say you got injured more as you were younger, but that is not because you are more resilient to injuries as you were younger, it just means you were not all that smart about your training back then either.  You should be including dynamic warm ups before running and use the first mile of the run to ease into your natural easy pace range. Follow up with some running form drills will help if you have any running mechanical issues as well.

                   

                  I appreciate the advice but don't presume to tell me what I enjoy and what I don't enjoy.  It's very possible more easy miles are needed but whether I prefer that type of running or not is my own prerogative. .

                   

                  I love the feeling of total engagement.  Perhaps your body reacts differently but I just don't get the same feelings of elation and endorphin overload when I do slow runs.  I've almost finished the book recommended above 'Run Less, Run Faster'  It seems like a perfect fit for me.  It eliminates the junk easy miles and focuses on three quality runs per week along with two cross-training workouts.

                   

                  Although my interest in cycling has waned, I continue to ride twice per week.  The book recommends an interval track workout, a tempo run, and a long run per week.  It also advises to do the long run at a faster pace than other programs.  Certainly slower than the tempo run but not super easy either.  I won't be doing the track workout for a while and will probably substitute an easy run.  I plan to focus on the other two.

                   

                  I walk about a half mile before and after my runs and also make my first mile running my slowest.  This seems to be working quite well.  I also only run on dirt.

                  Seattle prattle


                     

                    I would plan on going slower on the long run.  I guess I would need to determine just how much slower would qualify as "easy".  If 7:45/mile just touches on tempo, would 8:15 then be easy?  Would that pace be bringing more of the oxygen component into it?

                     

                    Are you doing all your runs at a slower pace?

                     

                    Thanks.

                     

                    Whoa! Easy there, cowboy!

                    If 7:45 is approaching your tempo pace, consider an easy pace would generally be about a 1 - 2 minutes per mile slower. So, for a long run, for example, try out a 9:30 pace, with a little margin to speed up or slow down depending on feel.

                    Good luck.


                    Elite Jogger

                       

                      Whoa! Easy there, cowboy!

                      If 7:45 is approaching your tempo pace, consider an easy pace would generally be about a 1 - 2 minutes per mile slower. So, for a long run, for example, try out a 9:30 pace, with a little margin to speed up or slow down depending on feel.

                      Good luck.

                       

                      Easy pace is always going to be different depending on your weekly mileage. I always go by feel rather than have a set pace in mind. If I’m running less than 50mpw then it usually works out at 7:45/8:00.....if I’m running over 70mpw then it could get to around 9:00 pace.

                       

                      The OP isn’t training for a marathon so I actually think the Run Less, Run Faster plan could work well for him at this stage. It’s all about enjoying your training at our level and he can always go down a different route at a later stage.

                       

                      MTA - Yeah if 7:45 is tempo then I wouldn’t imagine 8:15 to be easy!

                      5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

                         

                        Easy pace is always going to be different depending on your weekly mileage. I always go by feel rather than have a set pace in mind. If I’m running less than 50mpw then it usually works out at 7:45/8:00.....if I’m running over 70mpw then it could get to around 9:00 pace.

                         

                        The OP isn’t training for a marathon so I actually think the Run Less, Run Faster plan could work well for him at this stage. It’s all about enjoying your training at our level and he can always go down a different route at a later stage.

                         

                        MTA - Yeah if 7:45 is tempo then I wouldn’t imagine 8:15 to be easy!

                         

                        I guess 'easier' is about as slow as I'm planning on running.  The 'Run Less, Run Faster' doesn't specify any super slow pacing.  According to its tables, I should be running my long run at around 8:20/mile.  That sounds about right.  I ran 5.6 miles the other day at 7:37/mile and it felt good.  I think I went slightly anaerobic a couple of times.  I did the first mile at a considerably slower pace so the rest of the run was probably around 7:20 or so.

                         

                        Like I mentioned above, I'm not going to be doing the track workout at this point.  On the other hand, I'm cycling way more than what their suggested cross-training workouts call for.  Cycling carries zero risk of injury for me at this point so I think this is a good substitution for the track intervals.

                        Seattle prattle


                           

                          I guess 'easier' is about as slow as I'm planning on running.  The 'Run Less, Run Faster' doesn't specify any super slow pacing.  According to its tables, I should be running my long run at around 8:20/mile.  That sounds about right.  I ran 5.6 miles the other day at 7:37/mile and it felt good.  I think I went slightly anaerobic a couple of times.  I did the first mile at a considerably slower pace so the rest of the run was probably around 7:20 or so.

                           

                          Like I mentioned above, I'm not going to be doing the track workout at this point.  On the other hand, I'm cycling way more than what their suggested cross-training workouts call for.  Cycling carries zero risk of injury for me at this point so I think this is a good substitution for the track intervals.

                           

                          I think the disconnect here is the pace of the long run. I've scanned back and don't see that you mention how long your long run is. Only mention is that you plan to add miles to build into a long run.

                          To me, a long run means about 10 miles or more.

                          How long are you doing your long runs now?

                             

                            I think the disconnect here is the pace of the long run. I've scanned back and don't see that you mention how long your long run is. Only mention is that you plan to add miles to build into a long run.

                            To me, a long run means about 10 miles or more.

                            How long are you doing your long runs now?

                             

                            You're right.  I should have clarified that only now am I going to start adding on to one run.  'Run Less, Run Faster' recommends a three month base of thrice weekly running before getting into their specific workouts.  I have that now.  I've already been doing the tempo run and the long run will be my focus going forward slowly adding distance.  Especially because I don't plan on running really slowly, I'll be careful as I lengthen it.

                            Seattle prattle


                              That's excellent! You may find that it's easier to add the miles by modulating that pace a little. Maybe you won't have to - or want to - but speaking for myself, I know I would have a hard time in a longer run trying to maintain that pace. And the very point of the long run is not about pace, so reap its benefits, focus on attaining the distance component most.

                              Basically, it's a question of where do you want to put your focus.

                              If you are trying to reach a running goal as opposed to simply doing a week's worth of fun runs on an ongoing basis, one might just go very light on the long run pace and bang out the miles, easy-peasy. Kind of boring but it's a means to an end.

                              So, feeling under-challenged, you mihgt want to ease into the intervals. Start by doing a few strides after easy runs. Eventually develop that into a work out of its own. Honestly, intervals and hills make for very exciting workouts. And they are super critical for maximizing one's potential.

                              Another thing that helps with fitting in these in if it's a bit too challenging right off the bat is to elongate your training cycle from a week to 10 days. That way, getting in a tempo, interval, and long run within a cycle does not seem so relentless and draining.

                              Hope this helps.

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