1

Looking for a reasonable training plan or comments to go to the level (Read 164 times)

RITODO


    I am a 51 year old male residing in SOCAL and I would appreciate any helpful running tips from the many experience runners of RA.

     

    Background: I started running about 5 years ago (on and off) and from 2012, each week I would run about 3-5 days accumulating 40 mpw.  I just finished the LA marathon in 4 hours 1 min and last year, I ran both the San Diego and Santa Barbara marathons in  4 hours 2 min.  I don’t have any plans to run another marathon in the next 6 months, but I may sign up to run a marathon in Nov.

     

    Goal: Although I could not complete the last 3 marathons under 4 hrs, I felt much better during and after the marathon so I  think it’s time to complete the next few marathons under 4 hrs with the goal to complete it within 3:40.

     

    Appreciate any tips and suggestions which I could incorporate into my training to help me speed up and finish in less time.

      A quick review of your log shows that your go-to easy run pace is basically your marathon pace. So, one take would be either you are doing your easy runs way too fast, or you are racing way too slow. You'll have to tell us about the race...was that a big blowup so the overall pace slowed way down at the end, or was it pretty even? The answer to that will guide some of the answers to your questions.

      Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
      We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
      RITODO


        A quick review of your log shows that your go-to easy run pace is basically your marathon pace. So, one take would be either you are doing your easy runs way too fast, or you are racing way too slow. You'll have to tell us about the race...was that a big blowup so the overall pace slowed way down at the end, or was it pretty even? The answer to that will guide some of the answers to your questions.

         

        Thanks, here's my race result for LA marathon

         

        LocationNet TimeClock TimePacePace BetweenTime of Day
        Start 00:00 4:39     7:31:17
        10K Split 56:02 1:00:40 9:01   8:27:18
        20K Split 1:50:57 1:55:35 8:56 8:50 9:22:13
        30K Split 2:47:30 2:52:08 8:59 9:06 10:18:46
        40K Split 3:48:30 3:53:08 9:12 9:49 11:19:46
        Finish 4:01:03 4:05:41 9:12 9:12 11:32:20

          I quickly looked back at your log and I think your stagnating (at 4 hours for a marathon) because your training is not diverse and your basically doing the same training from a body physiology standpoint. You do one long run (many times run close to your marathon pace) and a LT Tempo run (usually 24 - 30 min) each week on a very consistent basis. At a certain point your body "detrains" (or stagnates when you repeat the same cycle targeting the same areas of your training). And Kevin's correct in his assessment that your easy runs are run at MP (so rather than recover your stressing your body w/your easy days).

          Think of a workout plan in terms of hitting a broad range of the body systems -- Speed (intervals > 45 sec <= 2 min w/200% recovery, VO2Max intervals, 10k/Groove Intervals, Cut-Down Interval, LT Tempo (>= 24 min <= 30 min), AT Tempo (>= 40 min <= 60 min), where you run two of these workouts per wk + your long run (customarily if your running two workouts p wk you run one interval, recover at least one day and then a tempo); or two workouts week 1 (interval/tempo); one workout week 2 (interval), and repeat plus your long run each week. Most importantly, insert "easy" runs (VO2Max + 90-120 seconds) for your other runs or an off day. Each of these "cycles" go out either 4 or 6 weeks depending upon your workout cycle (2/2 or 2/1/2/1). And you "stack" or repeat these cycles. And when you have a marathon scheduled, about 10 weeks out fr the marathon, change up your training cycle to focus more on marathon pace and longer stuff (i.e., your AT Tempo to 60 min, your intervals to 1/2 marathon or MP w/shorter rest, but run at least VO2Max intervals during this time) and then taper accordingly. For your long run, for every 3 or 4 long runs, you should do one "fast finish" where you run the last 15-25% faster (marathon pace or 1/2 marathon pace, and that "fast finish" percentage would build up to 40% during your "marathon phase period"). You (must) also need to run strides (2x p wk) and best to do that prior to workouts (4x to 6x) since your devoid here and also introduce hill sprints (10-15 second efforts, work up to 6x to 8x) at least bi-weekly (if you limit these to 10-15 seconds you can run them on an easy day and not need recovery time). You also need to measure what your VO2Max (roughly 5k race pace) is so that you can gauge the correct pacing for all of this (one could use their marathon pace and back into the pacing but in your case I'm not sure that is going to get a good read).

          Rob

          RITODO


            Rob,

            Thank you for your input. I guess next step for me is to race a 5K to find my VO2Max and use it to improve my training plan in order to reach the next level.

             

            I quickly looked back at your log and I think your stagnating (at 4 hours for a marathon) because your training is not diverse and your basically doing the same training from a body physiology standpoint. You do one long run (many times run close to your marathon pace) and a LT Tempo run (usually 24 - 30 min) each week on a very consistent basis. At a certain point your body "detrains" (or stagnates when you repeat the same cycle targeting the same areas of your training). And Kevin's correct in his assessment that your easy runs are run at MP (so rather than recover your stressing your body w/your easy days).

            Think of a workout plan in terms of hitting a broad range of the body systems -- Speed (intervals > 45 sec <= 2 min w/200% recovery, VO2Max intervals, 10k/Groove Intervals, Cut-Down Interval, LT Tempo (>= 24 min <= 30 min), AT Tempo (>= 40 min <= 60 min), where you run two of these workouts per wk + your long run (customarily if your running two workouts p wk you run one interval, recover at least one day and then a tempo); or two workouts week 1 (interval/tempo); one workout week 2 (interval), and repeat plus your long run each week. Most importantly, insert "easy" runs (VO2Max + 90-120 seconds) for your other runs or an off day. Each of these "cycles" go out either 4 or 6 weeks depending upon your workout cycle (2/2 or 2/1/2/1). And you "stack" or repeat these cycles. And when you have a marathon scheduled, about 10 weeks out fr the marathon, change up your training cycle to focus more on marathon pace and longer stuff (i.e., your AT Tempo to 60 min, your intervals to 1/2 marathon or MP w/shorter rest, but run at least VO2Max intervals during this time) and then taper accordingly. For your long run, for every 3 or 4 long runs, you should do one "fast finish" where you run the last 15-25% faster (marathon pace or 1/2 marathon pace, and that "fast finish" percentage would build up to 40% during your "marathon phase period"). You (must) also need to run strides (2x p wk) and best to do that prior to workouts (4x to 6x) since your devoid here and also introduce hill sprints (10-15 second efforts, work up to 6x to 8x) at least bi-weekly (if you limit these to 10-15 seconds you can run them on an easy day and not need recovery time). You also need to measure what your VO2Max (roughly 5k race pace) is so that you can gauge the correct pacing for all of this (one could use their marathon pace and back into the pacing but in your case I'm not sure that is going to get a good read).

              More weekly mileage, shorter and less frequent long runs.

               

              You left your marathon in your training -- I am less concerned about the pace of your easy days and more concerned with the pace and length of the ONE long hard day on your schedule.

               

              Your primary issue is that your training on the other six days of the week (and over the course of your whole life, or at least the last 6 years) is not enough to support the sort of stimulus that you are providing on your long run day. So, the long run is breaking you down too much and the other days are not building you up enough. This is imbalanced training.

               

              Sign up for your marathon in November. Between now and September, run the same mileage that you ran in your marathon buildup, but spread it over the entire week. No run longer than 10 miles. If you do this, then run 3 or 4 runs of 16-20 miles in September and October, I guarantee that you will break 4 hours, and probably you will run under 3:45.

               

              Cheers!

              RITODO


                Jeff,

                Thank you for your advice.

                Ricky

                 

                More weekly mileage, shorter and less frequent long runs.

                 

                You left your marathon in your training -- I am less concerned about the pace of your easy days and more concerned with the pace and length of the ONE long hard day on your schedule.

                 

                Your primary issue is that your training on the other six days of the week (and over the course of your whole life, or at least the last 6 years) is not enough to support the sort of stimulus that you are providing on your long run day. So, the long run is breaking you down too much and the other days are not building you up enough. This is imbalanced training.

                 

                Sign up for your marathon in November. Between now and September, run the same mileage that you ran in your marathon buildup, but spread it over the entire week. No run longer than 10 miles. If you do this, then run 3 or 4 runs of 16-20 miles in September and October, I guarantee that you will break 4 hours, and probably you will run under 3:45.

                 

                Cheers!