Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
I'm enjoying the variety of workouts posted here. Realizing that my marathon training's gotten way too monotonous: 2-3 easy days, the obligatory track workout (of either 800s or mile repeats), mp workout, and long run. I look forward to trying out some of these workouts in my summer / fall marathon training cycle. Between now and then I'll need to reread a few books ... or get a coach.
RLK - that track meet sounds like a lot of fun and congratulations on the rundown. I didn't race track in high school but have done a few as a grownup. I'm the distance runner with no kick, too often have provided the great stories for others ...
Dwave / FB - Plantar fasciitis and Achillies paratenonitis had me in support shoes and RX orthotics in 2016, heelstriking like I had two peg legs. Chucked the orthotics, wore Altras and Hokas through 2017, did a fair amount of PT and hip strength work. The Altras made me feel slow, but put my calves & ankles back in the game. Feet feel great now as I alternate between the light trainers I love and Hoka for the easy or trail runs. The RX orthotics are still in the closet, motivating me to do my clamshells and bridge-ups.
Saw a cardiologist last week re some strange skipped beat sensations I've had off and on for years. Mercifully, he didn't raise any concerns about continuing training and racing next Saturday's 50k. Ordered a two week monitoring patch, which I'm trying to decide whether to start now or after the race.
Weekly SummaryMonday, Feb 12, 2018 thru Sunday, Feb 18, 2018
Rlk - nice job on the track meet!!
DWave - interesting opinions re: your coach. I am a fan of yoga, cushioned shoes, and I'm sure I'd do pool running but right now I'm just trying to do regular running enough. I'm with you on the breathing/asthma flare. It's been years since this has happened but I've found myself needing Symbicort daily (in addition to the albuterol I take before every run) since a week into this nasty cold that also has my voice STILL not able to reach normal octaves. How long do you wait before asking your dr for a dose or prednisone? I've never tried it but I'm normally ok without a steroid inhaler, so needing it daily is annoying me and I'm wondering if a dose of prednisone would be better. I can always ask my PCP.
Ace - nice week.
Brew - what's daddy day care for you guys?
E78 - nice week to you, too. I haven't picked a goal MP and I don't know that I will.. just training on effort for now.
Oregon - sunny runs are always nice!!
Dad - enjoy the taper!
My (admittedly odd) week:
M: off
T: 5.3 @ 8:31 am, 4.7 @ 8:22 PM (lunch)
W: off
Th: off
F: 4 @ 8:35
Sat: 16.2 @ 8:09 (3 at MP around 7:30ish average, very hilly)
Sun: 5 @ 9:05
Total: 35.5
Yesterday I was going to do 8ish but my legs were pretty tired and it was blizzard conditions, so I did 6 instead so that I could run with the running group tonight. Shooting for just under 40 miles this week. and feeling pretty good all things considering, but definitely trying to manage it when my legs feel dead. I'm planning on increasing until the taper, which I haven't done in a while.
PRs: HM: 1:32:59 (2015); FM: 3:18:36 (2017)
Mother of Cats
Dad - Ice Cream Sandwich workout looks tough. I'm guessing it is not a lactate free ice cream.
Nice. Very nice.
Brew - your description of your tempo made me laugh. I think that counts as running by feel.
Duke - take care of yourself. Were you out there this morning? I was wearing a black shirt (NYC Half) and black tights with a blue stripe.
DWave -How long do you wait before asking your dr for a dose or prednisone? I've never tried it but I'm normally ok without a steroid inhaler, so needing it daily is annoying me and I'm wondering if a dose of prednisone would be better. I can always ask my PCP.
We have an escalation plan- Advair 250/50 is my normal daily med, and then I can take up to two puffs a day of QVAR (inhaled corticosteroid) twice a day, if things are getting a bit tight. If I'm taking the Advair AND the max dose of QVAR AND I'm still needing to use my rescue/coughing a lot/have low peak flows, then we start talking pred. But it's really the nuclear option - we exhaust everything else first. The systematic effects of a small dose of oral pred vastly outweigh the effects of regular and even heavy use of an inhaled corticosteroid, so in my experience they like to be sure the inhaled steroid isn't cutting it first.
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12 miles for me today. A very schitzo workout full of miscommunication. The workouts was supposed to be 2000 and then 4-5 by 800. Since I'm marathon training, I assumed that the plan was to cruise these and max out the reps. So, started the 2000 at a relaxed pace, and then my coach told me to "group up." I thought he meant catch the group ahead of me, which surprised me, but whatever. So I did, and ran the rest of the workout with them, at what would be my normal pace if I was training for shorter distances. (7:32 for 2000m).
Turned out that I had misunderstood, and he wanted me to slow down and run with the group behind me....So, I returned to what I thought was the plan and cruised the next 4x800 in 3:03-3:04 each (for those of you playing at home, that's a bit slower than I ran the 2000) with the intention of getting a lot of reps in . And then he shut me down anyway.
I guess we'll file that one under ooops. I'm annoyed, and reminding myself that workouts can provide benefit even if they're messy. The good news is that the 2000m felt surprisingly easy.
Also did injury prevention work and recovery swimming.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Dwave: way to make the most out of confusing instructions on the track. This distance from the goal race - any quality that doesn’t injure isn’t a problem, right? Yes, was out at W&L this morning - dark green Parks Half Marathon shirt and a slowish 3 mile tempo workout for the taper. Saw your group but didnt recognize you. Such a fast bunch! Some Tuesday I’ll put it together and say hi.
E78: Well, I have thermal pants for when it's colder out, but I do wear tights from time to time. I apparently just have horrible fashion sense and wear shorts over them. Nice week!
Keen: I enjoyed the day, mostly because it was an absolutely gorgeous day for standing outside doing nothing for 95% of the time...well, except watching a young woman vomit, things like that. It if was cold and rainy, I'm pretty sure I would've hated it. Solid week for you as well!
I ran about 50 feet on Monday, and about 75 feet on Tuesday. All of it easy.
Resident Millennial
dwave- ahh, I know how you feel about disorganized workouts and being bummed about it. when this happens i try to remind myself that my legs don't know about the disorganization and mental confusion, they just know they workout they felt. so don't read too much into it!
it's been "cold" this week ... low 40s. everyone is freaking out. i have been running in capris + long sleeve shirt + earband. 40 degrees here definitely feels balmier than it does in the northeast. maybe it's the lack of humidity, not sure.
we did our "michigan miles" workout last night which i think i've described before. (cliff's notes: 1600@10k pace, road mile @ LT, 1200 @ 5k pace, road mile @ LT, 800 @ 3k pace, road mile @ LT, 400 @ 1500 pace. no rest.) it was pretty decent, started with 6:35 for 10k pace and did the LT miles at like 6:47. but on the 800 i just ran out of turnover and my one hamstring, which is sometimes cranky, was creaky and very tight. it felt like a good time to call it, so i channeled a dwave's coach for myself (our coaches don't do a lot of...uh, "coaching" and directives like "hey you are done now"). could've busted through the end but woudln't have accomplished anything positive.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Problem Child
Matt I'm just impressed by the speed. Good to know the fast people like you and dw still do your easy runs around my pace, or slower.
KK Me staying home all day until he goes to daycare. Thankfully I have enough paid time off to cover FMLA leave. The original plan was me staying home through May. A daycare my wife wanted to go to called with an opening in March, we declined, then an opening in April, which we accepted, so my FMLA will be cut short. It gives me an opportunity to see what she went through daily. So far he's behaving but that can all go South really quick. Oh and he eats like 16 ounces a day. Which seems like a lot when it's about 50% of his weight.
dw Yeah I was a LITTLE forced to run by feel. I had Strava but the stupid "live segment" came up and my gloves wouldn't allow me to close that when I wanted to. I aimed to stay at the self-prescribed pace which I seemed to have done. I'd say it was "comfortably hard" because when I was close to 1 goal, like 15 minutes, I could tell myself to go longer while keeping the pace.
I hope you have to avoid the nuclear option. When you say "if things get a bit tight" does that mean when you think you need it and can't self control it, or is there a "perceived effort of breathing" you're told to take it at? Only asking because I could see some people "pushing through" points because they want to avoid a nuclear option.
rlk Those miles sound interesting. Locally there is only two tracks, maybe 3, I know of open to the public. It's really annoying a public school has a fence around their track they lock. I'm sorry my tax dollars pay for the track and I'd appreciate using it. The two tracks in town open to the public don't seem to be destroyed and one is a 10 minute drive (I know that's like a block in your world) from the other. I don't understand the logic. Either way I could do them on the road. Is the main reason you do them on the track to know the exact distance for 1,600, 1,200, 800, etc.? I'd imagine with a mile of road you'd be able to do the entire workout on the road.
ace Submarine route....I love it. I'll see what else I can come up with. Keep up those Rorschach Runs.
HOPEFULLY not sick. If so I'm blaming my 3 year old nephew. I'm hoping it was the TRX/6.5 mile run combination yesterday causing this tired feeling and stuffy nose with congested head thing.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
On the road in MN
RLK - that workout sounds familiar - never done it myself, but sounds tough! I have a hard time keeping track of paces when its all mixed like that... lol I usually just stick with one type of pace per day for the most part. fairly boring stuff 4x3min vo2 or 4x8'... 3x15' etc.
Seeing other peoples stuff sure makes me think about getting more interesting... :-)
OMR - I had a very similar Monday and Tuesday it sounds like. Although I did do a lot of stair climbing at an indoor waterpark both days... lol.
After a strong week of 56miles (most since last May/June) - with 3 solid efforts and a bonus MLR with DW (EZ 9mi sunday w/hills) - getting rain/sleeted out Tuesday made me feel ok with 2 rest days. This mornings 6 miler felt a little rusty, the face mask and negative 8°F windchills didn't help! But had to rush home for 'nature' and managed a good strong 10minutes to cap off the run. Felt pretty good!
Mustering a game plan for tomorrows treadmill workout - right now I think it will be a longer version of last weeks(24') Tempo run - shoot for another 5-10minutes at pace. (2mi WU, 30-35minutes at 6:35/mi rolling hill, mix after). Legs are feeling good solid which is nice - but want to play it 'safe' and probably will hold off on anything faster than 10k pace for another week.
5k: 19:29 Oct'17 26.2: 4:03 Oct'15 3:22 Grandmas June'17 Upcoming: Grandmas Marathon June'18
Cobra Commander Keen
DWave - Sounds like a definite communication error, but hopefully the training response offsets the annoyance.
RLK - That looks like a tough workout, and there's no way I could keep all that straight without some help from my watch. Sounds like you made the right call to cut things short.
Brew - It's awesome that you're getting to spend so much time with NeRP.
Ace - Good for you bringing a book for your little running buddy.
Nick - Before this training cycle all my workouts were one pace and length for the intervals. Having mixed paces and distances has been much easier with the workout steps programmed into my watch.
Weather has absolutely turned to poo here lately. Thunderstorms yesterday turned into sleet/freezing rain and we've had sleet coming down off and on all day today. This could keep up until Saturday. I've been drinking all the coffee I can to compensate.
The roads and track are far too dangerous to run on, so I'm very thankful for the treadmill. Now I just need to try working out how to best do my interval (200's + 400's) workout on it tomorrow. Converting time per interval > pace per mile > mph > "perceived pace" w/ 1-2% grade is going to be interesting. Maybe I'll substitute for a tempo run or something just to make it easier. Movie recommendations for a 14 mile treadmill LR, anyone??
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Recovery Phenom
Brewing: Wow- you sure have a lot on your plate. Sorry the weather didn't cooperate for you to run over the weekend and good luck with Daddy Daycare! I love how you went out there in the bad weather and convinced yourself (unknowingly) to get it done!
Commander: My goal race is New England in April. Very solid week of training for you. Interesting to see the Daniels workouts.
Darkwave: That's a bummer about your gift certificate never making it to you! Nice mileage + Yoga. Yikes on the miscommunication. But good news that your 2000m felt good. And what's most important is that you still got a solid workout.
Dad4: Oooh, that ice cream sandwich workout sounds fun. And it does sound like it would get tough during the end. It's also (relatively) short for a marathon workout so potentially easy to recover from.
oregon: I have no doubt that you will get back to where you used to be. And I totally agree that running in daylight is better than the morning darkness. I've been thrilled lately with the sun rising before 7:00 so that the majority of my run is lit. But I am dreading Daylight Savings.
pepper: Glad you found the watch and nice mileage for you!
Matt: Looks like a solid week ahead of training for you.
Duke: I think if you branch out and try some new workouts you will see rapid progress. I had been stuck doing the exact same workouts year over year for about 4 years and once I started added variety, my times dropped dramatically. I hope everything is okay with your heart.
Katia: Looks like things are going well for you!
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On Monday I ran 15 x (1 minute at slightly faster than 5K effort, 1 minute easy), then 15 x (30 seconds hard, 30 seconds easy). I hate this workout and my coach gives it to me all the time. Next month it will be 20 of each, which is a full hour of that crap! Anyway, it went well and my 1:00 segments ranged from 6:05-6:20, my 30-second segments ranged from 5:40-6:05.
And then. . . here is the kicker. The next day (Tuesday) was not an easy day. He had me run 90 minutes at a pace of 7:30. I did this, except I spent the first mile easing into it (started at like 9:30 and then accelerated to 7:30) which meant my first mile was 8:30 average. After that, the run averaged 7:30 and it wasn't as difficult as I had expected. All in all it was 11.88 miles at an average pace of 7:35.
Finally I got an easy day today: 70 minutes (8:51 average) + strides.
Amazingly everything is feeling good and I've had plenty of energy during the day. Even though my legs have a cumulative 71 miles on them, I'm holding up well.
26.2 x 31 (3:15:34 PR)
13.1 x 35 (1:30:58 PR)
Author of the book Boston Bound
Hey all you coaches, I've been re-reading the Matt Fitzgerald article on running form and have a question. My idea is to focus the next few months on form and on stretching my hip flexors and strengthening (I think) my glutes. Here's the article from 2014.
http://running.competitor.com/2014/07/training/can-running-technique-be-taught_298/4
My hip flexors are definitely tight and looking at marathonfoto pictures over years, you can see that I cannot lift my trailing foot above my knee from push off. Good runners naturally lift their trailing foot nearly to their butt.
My question is -- does anyone have any good strength exercises to recommend for push-off. I have a couple of hip flexor stretches that I am doing (and I can fell the tightness), but I don't have a plan for the strength part.
Meanwhile, trying to improve my technique as I run.
Help!
m: 2:55:04 | 10k: 37:14 | 50mile: 9:35
E78 - that seems like a ton of miles!! Nice!
Duke - good that the cardiologist was okay with training. I always like to skim over books, too.
Brew - props on doing that!! I love my child, but I could never be a SAHM -- imo it's much harder than being a lawyer!
DW - interesting on the escalation. I typically don't need a daily steroid inhaler, but every few years I get something that triggers asthma and I need it for a few weeks or months. Looks like I'm there again, which is a bummer.
Rlk - Michigan miles sound interesting. I've been trying really hard to listen to my body when I'm not going to accomplish anything other than hurt the next day's workout, too.
CK - sleet is no fun. Re: movies -- my current fav movie to watch all the time is Passengers. I've watched it a ton and it's one of those things I watch when I can't sleep. Other than that my viewing is pretty much garbage (ie - The Bachelor), so ...
Ran 6.7 on the TM with the gym group yesterday and then 5.3 this morning with next door neighbor and her dog. It was 14 degrees and the coldest I've ever run in successfully, so I think I may have actually figured it out. The key to it is apparently ski mittens. As long as my hands are okay I seem to be okay. I think that means ski mittens below 20 degrees. DH and my toddler got back today.. I think my kid was more excited to see the dog than me.
I'm not a coach, but I play one on the internet.
If I had to recommend one exercise, it would be step-ups. Use benches of all different sizes, and first practice the motion - you place one foot on the stool or bench, and then power up from that glute. bringing the other knee forward and up in an exaggerated motion.
First practice this motion without weights, making sure that you're using the glute (not quad) and that you are stable and controlled through the entire motion. Once you've got that down, add weights. Dumbbells or plates in each hand, medicine ball or kettlebell held to your chest or out in front.
As you do this motion, make sure that a) you are always firing the glute, not cheating with the quad; b) balanced and stable; and c) doing the motion slowly enough that you're not assisted by momentum.
KK - I'm a huge fan of snowboarding mittens - they come out whenever it drops below freezing, plus handwarmers.
RLK - I enthusiasticly endorse your self-coaching call. Not that you need my endorsement or approval, but whatever. 40s sounds blissful.
Brewing - you wrote:
"hen you say "if things get a bit tight" does that mean when you think you need it and can't self control it, or is there a "perceived effort of breathing" you're told to take it at? Only asking because I could see some people "pushing through" points because they want to avoid a nuclear option."
It is a bit of a "how do I feel" thing. I have a "peakflow meter" that I breath into at home that will tell me if I'm starting to struggle. My doctor's office has better equipment to measure my breathing. I've learned not to push through because it only gets worse and takes longer to fix if not treated early. Just like injuries.
Sorry - will try to do more catch-up later - this thread moves fast. Did 10 miles (9:24) to the gym, where I did upper body weights/core, and then 2 more miles home (9:02)
rlk ~ That's a brutal version of The Michigan; the original (as I understand it) has jogs in between the hard and tempo segments.
http://runners-resource.com/the-michigan-workout/
Matt ~ Well played!
Duke ~ Good news from the doc.
E78 ~ Ugh, lots of good work there.
OMR ~ How did things hold up?
Katia ~ You're 'just' Mom; the dog is, well, A DOG!
fb ~ My answer would be sprints.
80s today. Unbelievable.
Duke: I'm enjoying reading about everyone's workouts too. While I usually follow a pretty structured plan, right now I'm kind of enjoying just picking and choosing what I want to do, and am getting some good ideas here. Hope nothing serious comes up from the cardiologist testing.
katia: 14 degrees - ouch. We are in the 20s right now - I break out the mittens in this weather too. My hands get really cold.
rlk: I've read about that michigan workout before - sounds very challenging.
RunandBike and KEEN: Weather forced me on the treadmill today too -- I don't mind it too much. It's better than not being able to get a run in at all.
Brewing: hope you're not getting sick!
Elizabeth: Really nice mileage! And workouts!
Darkwave: nice workout today.
We got snow yesterday and today, so my kids had a snow day today. It was too snowy and icy to get my run in this morning so I got on the treadmill after work and used Dad's workout from the other day -- 10 min tempo, 6x1 min on/off, 10 min tempo. 7 miles total. I liked that workout! More snow expected tonight so tomorrow's up in the air as well.
I just watched a replay of the women's relay cross country sprint race, where the U.S. won their first cross country gold medal ever -- it was awesome. The announcers were losing their minds -- just fantastic.