Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018 (Read 704 times)

CommanderKeen


Cobra Commander Keen

    Piwi - Nice week. How was kayaking? Never done that myself.


    Mark - Good week as well.


    Watson - Congrats on the big week.


    JMac - You've been doing some really solid work lately. Keep it up!


    Corey - Welcome! I agree, upping mileage will really help so long as you do it gradually enough that you don't overextend/injure yourself.


    Finally hit 50 miles/80k for the first time since tapering for my HM. Not much in the way of workouts (temps/humidity are tough on me!) and no long runs. DD1's soccer season is now over, so that should free up Saturdays for longer runs. DD2 turned 4 yesterday. Simple party in a local park - lots of fun was had by all. I'm not old enough for my middle child to be that old!
    We had our first ~60F/15.5C day in well over a month, which was nice for a LT run today. Ran this one on the track since my headlamp died Friday and I don't have a replacement yet.

     

    ETA: Work has started a nation-wide "steps challenge", tied to some small-ish monetary awards based on performance. Nice idea to get people moving, but it kind of defeats the purpose when they let people manually enter in how many steps they "think" they have, without using a watch/activity tracker.
    As an off-shoot, some of the guys in the office have started a "25 pushups every hour" contest. No incentives other than GAINZ and bragging rights.

     

    Monday, May 14, 2018 thru Sunday, May 20, 2018

    <tfoot> </tfoot>
    Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
    Mon 9.3 8:02 1 deer (1 stride), 1 hawk, 2 buzzards. That can't be a good sign. 157 (80%) strava
    Tue 9.3 8:26 5 cranes & 6 hawks.Today is a better day already, despite accidentally eating those gnats just before mile 2. 145 (74%) strava
    Wed 9.4 7:53 Ten Junk Miles: Long Run #54 143 (73%) strava
    Thu 9.8 7:29 8mi M-effort. Not my finest work. 161 (82%) strava
    Fri 9.3 8:15 2 deer (2 strides), 1 crane, and moving another OBT off the road 147 (75%) strava
    Fri 3.1 8:13 Runch time in Watopia 136 (69%) strava
      50.2 8:01

    5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

     

    Upcoming Races:

     

     

    JMac11


    RIP Milkman

      Keen - My company did a steps challenge too, which I agree is a good idea. Then some guy who runs ultra marathons joined it and obviously blew everyone away. I sort of thought it was in bad faith given the point is to get people moving that otherwise wouldn't be, not to prove that you did double the amount of steps as the next person in the company.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

       

        Jmac my watch seems to overestimate distance. Im always 100m more to go on 10km training runs to my mates with Garmins. All my races come up slightly short and nearly all are not certified so I can never set PRs . Luckily that Parkrun seemed bang on ! If I run a Strava 5 or 10k with no corners and no obstructions like buildings, etc Im probably going to count it.

         

        Keen nice week. Ugh yeah I remember the kids soccer days. Sometimes it was saturday and sunday for me, the whole weekend was toast. Luckily I wasnt a runner then.

        The kayaking is more about the fishing. Ive been on a local kayak fishing forum for about...14 years..yeah once Im on a forum you cant get rid of me . We have a friendly comp every 100 pages with sponsored prizes. I love the freedom of dragging the kayak off any beach and catching some of the best food around.

         

        Did my 5x1000s today. was feeling pretty average after doubling yesterday and had a bit of a yuck stomach. They felt not very fast but when I got home and uploaded were actually over 5 secs/km faster than last week, go figure !

        55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

        Somewhere in between is about right "      

         

        watsonc123


          Keen - nice week.

           

          Corey - welcome.

           

          I don't think I have ever had the "I felt rubbish, then realized I was doing much faster than normal".

           

          Saturday kids sports is a summer and winter thing for me.  So Saturday runs are hard to fit in.

          PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

           

          40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

           

          2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

           

          2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

          JMac11


          RIP Milkman

            Piwi - at that speed for 1K, you should be able to break 18. That, or you're running them too fast. I was reading up on VO2 a bit more and Jack Daniels makes a lot of points about how running faster than your VO2 speed just makes you more tired/sore without giving you any of the benefit. I've been guilty of running them (and LT workouts) too fast in the past. I'm hoping it's the former, would love to see a sub 18 in your next hobby jogger park run.

             

            Of course, you can always go up to the wonderful 1200 distance for repeats if you want a challenge!

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

             

              Hi everyone. I am still following your efforts here and on strava but have nothing to post since I am still injured. In fact the second visit to the doctor was another inconclusive waste of my resources. His opinion is either stress reaction or shin splints or some deep tissue damage. Told me to do a test run last weekend. Which i did. 5k at super slomo pace. The bone and muscle continues to hurt the day after. So I will pause another 2 weeks with cross training on the bike. Let's see.

               

              But i actually didnt come to moan but just wanted to have your view on whats actually harder for someone who has never been there (I know I have read this before somewhere but dont recall where and answers): 10k @ 40min vs 5k @ 19min vs half at 90min. I am not fast so I guess for me it would be: half easier than 10 easier than 5???

               

              Highly subjective I guess.

              HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

               

              2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

              JMac11


              RIP Milkman

                But i actually didnt come to moan but just wanted to have your view on whats actually harder for someone who has never been there (I know I have read this before somewhere but dont recall where and answers): 10k @ 40min vs 5k @ 19min vs half at 90min. I am not fast so I guess for me it would be: half easier than 10 easier than 5???

                 

                Highly subjective I guess.

                 

                Equivalent Times:

                 

                Half: 1:29:59

                10K: 40:47

                5K: 19:34

                 

                So I guess sub 90 is the easiest? Definitely subjective though and I think a lot depends on age. I think most younger/newer runners find 5Ks much easier to run than halfs, but the opposite is true as you get more endurance/get older. There are guys who run sub 2:50 marathons that can't break 17:30 in a 5K.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                 

                  Mick so frustrating your injury. Hang in there. Yeah The sub 40 10k is about a 1.28 half. My son when he was 15 ran a 39 min 10k but couldnt break 1.30 in the half due to low weekly mileage and bad pacing. So natural speed gets you so far.

                   

                  Jmac I feel like im running these not quite as hard as I used to when i did them at the track over the last few years although I used to do 6 and was pretty toasted after. Im doing these at 5.30am. Its quite hard in the dark to gauge pace as you lose your perspective of speed. There are a few street lights and im also going from road to footpath to grass to avoid oncoming cars or cyclists. It looks like some improvement which is encouraging.

                  55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                  " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                  Somewhere in between is about right "      

                   

                  jaimegu


                    Hi, guys,

                     

                    Corey: Welcome

                     

                    MJ:  Oh, man I feel for you.  I really hope you can get healthy and keep running.  Is your doctor a runner or does he deal with Sports medicine? I'm asking based on your comment of "waste of resources".  Their approach is very different.  Even a PT can help you more sometimes (My parents are both MDs, and I do ask them... but they are far from me to prescribe other tests or imagery, so I usually end up following their leads on sports related injuries and playing safe).

                     

                    Time of the day running: I'm usually flexible.  That being said.  Running outdoors in summer is better early in the morning and lunchtime in winter.  If running with coworkers, it's lunchtime.  Indoors usually is in the evening

                     

                    MAMIL:  This is one of the things that surprised me the most in Sweden: These people here usually run in tights up to 18C (65F) !!!... When it was 5 to 10C I got all those weird looks because I was running in shorts, Two ladies even stopped me to ask if I wasn't cold.  So it's men in lycra but running 9 months a year, maybe more.

                     

                    Company sponsored health program and Step challenges:  [RANT] We have had that for the last 2 years.  Let me tell you: I'm surrounded by crappy devices and/or blatant liars . I know Fitbit gives more steps than Garmin, but to get a random fat guy averaging 50K steps during 2 weeks?  The old overweight lady following closely.  Or another putting 85K daily!!!.  That's not even an ultra training.

                    My math gives me 6000 steps/hr walking and  under 11000 steps/hr running. So these people doesn't work, sleep or rest {/RANT]

                     

                    Me: My knee pain was slightly different from the usual runner's knee I'm friends with, specially with my VM being very sore the next 2 days after a run... So the guessing was a tendinitis.  Therefore I skipped running for 2 weeks.  Did walk like crazy (only a fraction of the fat guy mentioned above).  During weekend I went to Oslo and walked the city up and down... Nice weather. With the Oslo Pass I entered 3 museums, one city tour and then used public transportation to go to other touristic spots.

                    Yesterday I went for a 10K run, I didn't feel pain yesterday, neither today, but I played safe returning walking home.So let's see if I can get in to a routine

                    jaimegu


                      Marco: Most marathon plans put a tune up half marathon 5 to 6 weeks before the marathon... You say 40 days, then you are in this range.

                      I have done it twice. the increased mileage  will help you A LOT in the half.

                      I create my own plans: My long runs are marathon focused, my tempos are HM intended.  Once I run the HM, I turn the tempos into Mid long Runs with marathon pace...

                      As per my overall program it's a set of 4 week cycles (Daniels also use this cycles). Every 4th week is a cut down in distance and a slight increase in pace for the tempo (and the shortest long run is usually faster).

                      What I'm neglecting are the intervals, I'll need to find a way to put them in.

                        Jmac: thanks for that. I was kind of expecting this. I am wondering now if the 10k sub 40 is a lower hanging fruit in terms of weekly mileage as compared to the half sub 90? I wish I didnt have time to think about these things.

                         

                        Piwi: thank you - yes I can't wait for the leg to heal. Patience is an attribute that I dont have in abundance unfortunately....

                         

                        Jaime: good to see that you are recovering well! Its about time to start preparing for Boston next year Wink My doctor is not really a runner himself but has plenty of instruments and machines that would suggest he knows his stuff. Anyways better safe than sorry and if it doesnt get better in 2 weeks then I will try to find someone else...

                        HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

                         

                        2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

                        JMac11


                        RIP Milkman

                          Jmac: thanks for that. I was kind of expecting this. I am wondering now if the 10k sub 40 is a lower hanging fruit in terms of weekly mileage as compared to the half sub 90? I wish I didnt have time to think about these things.

                           

                           

                           

                          Yes, in general the shorter the distance, the less weekly mileage you need to hit the equivalent times. However, 10Ks and Halfs are fairly similar in terms of demands of training, with maybe a slight more emphasis on faster finish long runs or quality within those long runs for the half. Your best bet is to plan for a sub 90 half and try to hit a sub 40 during that training. There are no shortcuts to hitting some of these times and you may just have to realize it would be better to build up a big base later this year as you recover and go for the times next year.

                           

                          I would also echo what Jaime said. I have found doctors effectively useless when it comes to running injuries unless they really know their stuff. I find working with PTs is actually better just because I know my body so well and they can help me work on those weaknesses. Doctors often bias themselves to tests or just telling you to rest, whereas PTs actually can help you work on a lot of things to work on the issues. Plus, you develop a relationship with a PT by working with them once or twice a week and they really get to know you and your body, whereas a doctor sees you for maybe 10 minutes each time and a much lower frequency.

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                           

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            MJ - totally echo JMac and Jaime - doctors are generally not helpful unless they are specialists.  My first port of call is always my osteopath who knows her stuff and can generally figure out issues very quickly.  I see her normally once a month so, like JMac's PT, she has a good sense of what is and isn't normal.  Doctors, if in doubt, will generally just tell you to rest which is not always the right answer because it might not need rest or it might need some sort of active intervention.

                             

                            Jaime - positive signs on the knee so hopefully it continues feeling good!  Also - tights in 18C?! Crazy Swedes! I tend to wear them only when it drops below about 12C here.

                             

                            Watson - "I felt rubbish, then realized I was doing much faster than normal"... yeah not something I've had either!!! I've either had "I feel rubbish but I'm actually not going as fast as I'd expect given how I feel", and (very) occasionally "I am going faster than I thought but feel surprisingly good".

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                            Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            watsonc123


                              Not all full plans have a half race in it.  Pfitzinger has a 10k race, Hanson's has no races.

                               

                              Personally I can recover from a 10k quick.  But a half really knocks me around.  I wouldn't want to race more than a 10k during fall training.

                               

                              Re sub 40 for 10k versus sub 90 for a half - I have never done a sub 40!  Although I have never raced a 10k with a taper, generally conditions/course has not been quick, and I tend to pace 10k's like a 12 year old.

                              PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                               

                              40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                               

                              2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                               

                              2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                              flavio80


                              Intl. correspondent

                                Piwi - you’re back to the ballsy weeks, I bet you’re gonna run 17:45 on your next 5K assuming somebody similar to your speed shows up. If basketball shorts guy shows up, then you will run 19:00 and sprint the last 100 to show him what’s up!

                                 

                                I can see you are a regular on a kayak fishing forum, no wonder it’s easy to BAIT you back into this thread 

                                 

                                Jmac - good luck at your race.

                                I saw your comment on strava. If you used GPS it would also not be very accurate either.

                                I agree with you that fixed marks are better than watch for intervals.

                                And I’m not such a fan of running on the track, something to do with the curves.

                                 

                                Steve - great job with the big week. I’m glad you can train for time. Heat can be dangerous, it’s nice to take some change in your pocket in case you have to buy a bottle of water along the way.

                                 

                                Cfarr - welcome aboard.

                                 

                                Mark - thanks for the introduction haha.

                                 

                                Keen - 25 pushups every hour will provide no gains at all haha. Unless they’re greasing the groove, and will train heavy later.

                                I have always found these company wide campaigns very silly.

                                 

                                MJ - Assuming same mileage for all races, sub 90 is easier. On lower mileage sub 40 10k might be easier.

                                 

                                Jaime - the ladies were chit chatting because they liked your legs.

                                Did it rain when you were in Oslo? When we were there it rained for 3 days.

                                 

                                Half marathons - They are the best predictor race, but they have a toll on your body. You have to compute how much missing a week of training due to recovery is worth running the race.

                                 

                                Jaime/MJ - I also echo what guys said. Doctors are useless. They’re either lazy or afraid of being sued and will always ask you to do some expensive exam, then you have to come back and pay a second visit, then they tell you to rest 4 weeks.

                                I’m a fan of Functional training now, after doing a gait analysis/biomechanical evaluation.

                                 

                                Watson - anytime you run a 10k now you should be able to go sub 40. You have the training memory of running 1h27,28,29 HMs.

                                 

                                me - I'm over 6 months injury free now. Cheers!

                                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                                Up next: no idea

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