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Did I not eat enough in an ultra? (Read 202 times)

Wing


Joggaholic

    I DNF'ed my 100 mi attempt 2 months ago, I quit after 75 miles. I blamed it on harsh condition and lack of mental fortitude. When I recounted my experience with a friend recently, he told me I was not taking in enough calories. At the time during the race I did not think that. What symptoms would one encounter if that's the case, aside from being tired? (I think most runners would be tired after 75 miles whether they're low in food intake or not)

     

    Here's my race log.

     

    I basically ate a pack of hammer gel every time I enter the AS, which is about 3 miles apart. I also ate some pickles here and there (I chose that over salt tablets). I had some slices of cheese quesadillas at some point but I found it messy. I drank only water. I was 19.5 hours in when I quit. I never felt hungry. It didn't occur to me (or didn't feel like) I needed or wanted more food. Mentally I did not want to continue because I doubted if I could finish 100 miles in 30 hours without enduring hours of death march. Physically I was tired but not completely broken, I was able to keep my running streak the next day, so I wasn't completely drained.

     

    I'm thinking of trying for another 100 again, and want to figure out if I had had a bad eating strategy.

     

    Thanks

      I've found 200 calories per hour to be a safe target for me. Sounds like you were around 130 so this would have been light for me.  Tailwind works well for me for liquid calories to supplement my eating plan.  I'm sure the heat and conditions had a lot to do with what you were feeling, but I've never been 19 hours down that road. Kudos to you!

      dumrunner


        It sounds like you did fine on nutrition, if you didn't get hungry or light headed. Those are my two cues in 100s.

         

        Nutrition in 100s depends on so many factors -- terrain, pace, weather, not to mention the individual -- that I'm reluctant to give advice unless I know a little about all the variables. I do find that if I pay attention to those two cues -- (1) true hunger (like, hey it's 7 pm and I'm hungry, oh, right, that's when I normally eat dinner at home) and (2) stumbly, oh why-am-I-doing-this blues (for me, this is usually on long climbs late in mountain 100s) -- I don't have too much trouble with nutrition. Well, as long as my stomach doesn't go off, but that's another topic (and usually happens when going too fast on warm/hot days).

         

        "Mentally I did not want to continue because I doubted if I could finish 100 miles in 30 hours without enduring hours of death march." -- That's why you DNFd. Everyone is tired at 75 miles. Everyone (well, the 99% of us) walks A LOT and you have to accept that if you want to finish these things.

         

        I predict you will finish your next 100 Smile


        Kalsarikännit

          First of all, you picked a serious fecker of a 100 with tough conditions and a huge DNF rate.  I hope the next one you pick is better geared towards a successful finish.

           

          Why just water?  Drinks from gatorade to pop are a good way to put in elecrolytes, calories, and caffeine.  And speaking of elecrolytes, salt tablets have more than sodium, they also have potassium and magnesium.  That pickle may have some sodium, but it also something your body is going to have to work to digest that has almost zero caloric value.  There is a reason we don't eat broccoli during races.

           

          And heck yeah, everyone is going to be tired at 75 miles.  At that point it is a mental game.  Up until 100k there are all of these little checkpoints and then you are suddenly in no man's land and the finish seems very, VERY far off especially considering there may be a big slow down at this point.  I've found that making a little pace bracelet with frequent goals helps at this point.  Even if you are off of the pace that you wanted you still have frequent check points.  It is a lot easier to concentrate on making it five more miles than it is 25.

           

          Also, I've found an easy way to figure out if I need another gu...I'm crabby as all hell.  Running sucks, racing sucks, trails suck, etc.  I take a gu and in two minutes everything is sunshine, rainbows, and puppy dogs.

           

          I think you should think about if you are willing to become completely broken and forced to give up that streak.  I don't think I could shuffle out a 30 minute mile after any of my 100s if there was a million dollars waiting for me, and heck, you may be different, but if the thought of the next day is in your head I don't know how you keep it from affecting race day.

          I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

           


          Kalsarikännit

             

            "Mentally I did not want to continue because I doubted if I could finish 100 miles in 30 hours without enduring hours of death march." -- That's why you DNFd. 

             

            +1.

             

            Enduring hours of death march is a horrible and normal part of this.

            I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

             


            Feeling the growl again

              It sounds like you held it together physically (no small accomplishment) but the failure was mental.  If you made it to 75 without physical impairment, likely you could have made 100 with proper fortitude.  Which includes willingness to endure a death march.

               

              I think this was a learning experience for you, and knowing what to expect, you should be prepared to succeed next time.  While you didn't feel limited, you could take in more calories next time.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

              I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

               

              Wing


              Joggaholic

                Thank you all for the feedback. Yes I definitely failed mentally. Next time I will try to consume more gels, and stay with salt tabs.

                 

                Why just water?  Drinks from gatorade to pop are a good way to put in elecrolytes, calories, and caffeine.  

                 

                I thought when using gels one should wash that down with water only, and not do gel and gatorade together in a race, was I mistaken? I didn't remember the reason behind that, I think I read it on RA in some post a while back, maybe I read it wrong or something.

                kilkee


                runktrun

                  Thank you all for the feedback. Yes I definitely failed had some difficulty, mentally but learned from it. Next time I will try to consume more gels, and stay with salt tabs.

                   

                   

                  I thought when using gels one should wash that down with water only, and not do gel and gatorade together in a race, was I mistaken? I didn't remember the reason behind that, I think I read it on RA in some post a while back, maybe I read it wrong or something.

                   

                  The GU + Gatorade can cause GI distress in some people because of the high sugar concentration, but I've found it's usually in "faster" races (like actually trying to run 7;00s in marathon).  Try mixing in some hydration options with some calories and electrolytes in your next training cycle, but ultimately, stick with what sounds appetizing.

                  Not running for my health, but in spite of it.

                  LB2


                    I looked at your race log and noticed that the dew point was 77, which makes it quite uncomfortable. Frankly, I am impressed that you made it 75 miles with a nutrition plan of water and gels. I don't know how bad you were moving at 75, but you could move pretty slow and walk 25 miles in 10.5 hours. I agree with whoever said the reason you DNF'd was because you thought you couldn't finish. I think the reason you thought that was because you probably didn't eat or drink enough of the right things. I always try to make sure I get 200 calories per hour. I do that with Tailwind. It really works for me, but for some, it doesn't. I can't take gels at all. I just don't like them. Last year, I ran a race and got a little sick to my stomach at mile 10. I drank only Tailwind until about mile 90 or 95 when a lady at an aid station gave me a Waffle House breakfast plate she had left over (I don't know how you have a whole order left over, but I was glad she did). I did drink a little broth at mile 81 or so. Normally, I use Tailwind and solid food at aid stations. Some think 200 calories per hour is a little on the light side, but it works pretty good for me. But don't give up. I hope you sign up for another one soon.

                    LB2


                    Kalsarikännit

                      not do gel and gatorade together 

                       

                      You are thinking of Pop Rocks and Coke.  Mikey from the Life commercials died from injesting those at the same time at an ultra.

                      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                       

                      rlopez


                        1. You picked a hard race
                        2. With a noon start
                        3. With temps around 90 and a super high dewpoint
                        4. You probably went out too fast... and stewed during the hottest part of the day
                        5. You ate gels as you entered the aid station
                        6. Pickles

                        Ok. First off, many 100s are going to feel like a death march after 75. Welcome to 100s. It isn't like a road marathon. Shoot, for me, 50s can be like this as well. You will have low points and convince yourself to stop. And then the next day, you'll be ??? about it. Welcome! You are normal. If you want to finish a hundred, then don't stop at 75. Don't read that as me being snippy, use a funny accent, because really that is what it comes down to here.

                        Did you eat enough? Of the right stuff? Maybe. Maybe not. Being grumpy and ready to toss it in... that's usually one of my indicators that I haven't been eating right. Then again, EVERYBODY feels like that at M75 (or somewhere in there). Sometimes your brain comes back from that and sometimes it doesn't.  Sometimes you get a third wind and run more after a low point, other times you don't.

                        Whether "water only" was a bad plan... well, you have to look at it as a total. Water and food and electrolyte goodness (or badness). Hydration can only come from liquid... calories and electrolyte goodness (or badness) come from liquid and solid and little pills. If you were eating a gel every three miles, that is a lot of gel.  Especially if you were also popping those quesadillas and pickles at the same time.  For me, I eat gels when I am in the middle of nowhere. Aid stations are there with food for us to eat. I eat their food and save my food for when there ain't no food.

                        Now, as for the pickles. They've gained a reputation for being some kind of magic thing that will keep you happy and cramp free. I think it is kind of bogus, but then again, I've hated pickles my whole life, and the thought of eating them makes me want to throw up.  What I do know is that the magic of "pickle juice" for cramps seems to be more effective to stop existing cramps. Prevention of cramps? I dunno. They'd do a number on my stomach.  Also, the one time I was convinced to do a shot of pickle juice while cramping, it didn't help. That's just me.

                        Try again. Make sure your long runs involve some testing of food and drink combos. Don't try to survive on water on gels.

                        Coke is amazing.

                        That is all.

                        Wait, no. The heat and humidity. I'm still learning about all this stuff too... but my more successful friends are teaching me that when it comes to conditions like this, the big key is to stay cool. Yes, hydration is important and dehydration and overhydration are both bad (one is worse than the other, though)... but trying to stay cool is key. If the race has ice, use it. Stuff it in your hat. Wear arm sleeves and stuff it in those. Put some in a bandana, whatever, but use it if they have it. Go out slower than normal. Way slower. Take advantage of shade. Etc and whatnot. 

                        I learned the hard way at Western that once the heat has destroyed me, I'm probably not coming back from that mistake.

                        That is all.

                          I am 3/6 for completing 100s.  I don't think any of them were due to fueling although a lot of people have issues with fueling, I think most people can overcome them if they give it some time.  My first two I dropped between 65-70 miles.  The first one because it was 80 degrees out and I was seeing triple while trying to run on a rocky technical ridge-line.  I dropped after I decided it wasn't worth tripping and falling down the side of a mountain.  The 2nd one it was again close to 80 and this time I started hyperventilating somewhere after the 60 mile mark.  I walked for a good 2-3 hours while hyperventilating (I even had the brown lunch bag to breath into) and when it still didn't go away finally dropped at 70.  Maybe if I was more patient I could have lasted both of these situations out and completed the race.   Who knows?

                           

                          My first 100 I finished I ran into foot issues around mile 50, where it felt like there was a bruise on the bottom of my foot anytime I stepped on anything uneven.  (I found out after the race I have a toe bunion and the pain was from that).  I was determined to finish at all costs and basically walked everything rocky from mile 50 on (Superior Trail 100 is mostly rocks).  The next 100 I finished was again humid and mid 70s and again I almost dropped around 65 due to dizziness and feeling faint.  A snow cone saved my race.  No joke, 5 minutes later I was running.

                           

                          Anyway, one phenomenon I have personally encountered is that between 60 and 80 are pretty much the toughest of the race.  Your brain is telling you to stop and has one million reasons why you should.  Most of them are perfectly reasonable and sane people would listen to their brains.  To keep pushing on, you have to give up a little sanity and go in with the attitude that you will crawl to the finish if need be.  Even be willing to ruin your body permanently.  BUT... somewhere around 85-90 pain seems to even out and after that, I have been able to run pretty well.  Even pain that was very specific and acute has turned into general background noise and I can push through it.

                           

                          Getting to 75 was a huge accomplishment.  You should be very happy with that especially given the conditions.  Running 100 miles is really stupid.  During my last and every 100 I have promised myself I will never do it again.  I just signed up for the Hardrock 100 lotto a few days ago.  Sorry for the mindless rambling but maybe there is something useful in there.

                            That is true on gels but I've used my electrolyte drink to take gels. I use Sword and like to alternate as much as I can between a bottle Sword and plain water. I don't think you were eating enough. Someone mentioned 200 and I think that is a good target for me although I would guess I am a little less. I use various gels and Sword and then very small quantities of food at aid stations.

                             

                            You can very well hit a rough patch anywhere in a 100 miler whether it be at 75 miles, before or later. Often if you keep going it will pass. I almost always walk all the hills and run flats and downhills. I've run around ten 100s and finished between 20 - 27 hours depending on the course. Since I switched to Sword, I've been running all races better.

                             

                            Thank you all for the feedback. Yes I definitely failed mentally. Next time I will try to consume more gels, and stay with salt tabs.

                             

                             

                            I thought when using gels one should wash that down with water only, and not do gel and gatorade together in a race, was I mistaken? I didn't remember the reason behind that, I think I read it on RA in some post a while back, maybe I read it wrong or something.

                            "Any idiot can run a marathon. It takes a special kind of idiot to run an ultramarathon." - Alan Cabelly