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Bad or ok idea? (Read 1357 times)

    Okay, now I guess I've openned up a can of worms...??? ;o) My damn Japanese foot in a boat, I guess I'd need to follow through!? What you put together as a weekly schedule is pretty much it, yes. Any reason why you take Sunday and Monday off (2 days in a row)? If you ARE seeking some time improvement, then I think it's a good idea to mix things up a bit and do long run, hills (strength and technique work), tempo type of work, and speed (strides, etc.). You add however many "recovery" days you might need in between and here's your program. So do you have any appropriate hill near-by? I personally love doing hills and, including warm-up and cool-down, it goes way beyond an hour. You usually warm-up for 15 minutes, do hills anywhere from 20~60 minutes; then you cool-down for 15 minutes. If you live near rolling course, you may be able to do it like a fartlek fashion. If you don't have any hill near-by, you may consider doing it over steps--we just did it last Wednesday; we went to St. Paul science musiem (120 steps) and went up and down...actually, it's a loop and we go up the steps and cut across on the top as a recovery jog, then go to this much less steep downhill and stride down fast; jog a bit more back to the steps... One circuit is about, oh, 7 minutes??? We did it for about 30 minutes and I think we did 5 circuits so I guess it's about 6 minutes a lap... This was the first time Kate, one of the girls I've started coaching, did this type of workout and she just ran a 25k race Sunday before so we only did it for 30 minutes. We jogged for about 20 minutes before and after. Sure, it's kinda boring, going around and around... But the whole workout was over an hour (1:10ish). The thing is; far too many people just run for the sake of running. Not many people "train" to "race". In other words, they never learn to run efficiently. By doing hills, you'll learn to push the ground with the back-leg, to lift your knees, swing your arms vigorously... The main thing is to learn NOT to "sit in a bucket" as you run. If you've never done anything like this before and it could be a bit taxing, then you COULD do something like; alternate a semi-long run (1:00~1:30) and hills every other week (with tempo and long run)? So I would probably try to shuffle things a bit (instead of having 2 rest days in a row, assuming you DO have a choice): Monday: off Tuesday: easy 5~6 miles with a few strides Wednesday: tempo Thursday: easy 5~6 miles Friday: hills OR semi-long run (bi-weekly) Saturday: off Sunday: long run What you put together is just fine too. It's just, for example, I would try to avoid doing hill and long run day after day. Both kinda tough workout so separate a bit. If you CAN do an easy 20~30 minutes, or even brisk walk, on Saturday (on my schedule) between hills and long run, it would be good becasue it loosens up. But if it's too much and you might get burnt-out, don't. It would probably best to separate semi-long run and weekend long run a bit more but, assuming tempo on Wednesday is set, you just have to shuffle things around a bit. You could actually do a semi-long run (when you do do that) on Thursday, the day after tempo; and, when you do hills, do them on Friday. This is because it probably won't hurt you if you do a long run the day after some faster stuff; if anything that might help you slow down! ;o) But, if you have a choice, don't stimulate the same energy system ("fast and fast" or "long and long") too close to each other. That's why it's not a good idea to do a tempo run the day after a race. You probably want to avoid doing a long run the day before fast run either because long runs usually tighten up your muscles. When you do fast workout, you want your legs to be loose; otherwise, you may invite injury. Once you settle a schedule like that, you will most likely start to find out yourself; your current fitness level and your pattern as well as your temperament. Don't think any schedule, the one I've provided or any other schedule you might have found in a book or internet, as cast in stone. Once you learn about yourself; change it to best suit yourself. I'm sort of opt to suggest, once you start doing more regular "point" workouts, you may want to consider going those "5~6 miles" in between easier. It seems like you enjoy going for an hour's run; which is great! But if an hour is a bit too much the day after or the day before your "point workout", cut back. If you're adicted and HAVE to run, then I'll suggest trying out 30' AM and 30' PM. Yes, it's a double; but may make a big difference. My thing is; you want to do a GOOD solid point workouts. Here's a good example; when my wife ran her first marathon, she didn't have a lot of time so she did one long run on weekend.... That was about it! She "jogged" a couple of miles a couple of times a week but her total was somewhere around 20~25MPW. She had a friend who was running 6 miles just about everyday (totalling about 40MPW). My wife did 3:54 and her friend 4:20, after hitting the wall hard. I'm kind of rambling... Hope it helps instead of confusing you further!
      Ok nobby, I promise I won't ask any more questions. You've given me some great advice though. Smile I wasn't taking two days in a row off, I did my race on saturday, long run sunday, then also ran monday. I don't like taking two days off. I think I mentioned taking monday off, but only if I did a LR sunday. Anyways, I think a lot of times I am just running to run, and not really training. I really like the schedule you gave me and will work off that. The tempo today didn't turn out to be nearly as hard as I thought (the girl I was running with was just a tad slow lol), so I will do hills tomorrow. I'm excited about this though, maybe I won't come in last place on the 18th. Tongue But I gotta ask, how did your wife do that? I mean, going off 20 mpw and then getting a 3.54? That's impressive! I'm not going to purposefully cut back my mileage, but I guess I see your point. Thanks again nobby!!
        Ok nobby, I promise I won't ask any more questions. You've given me some great advice though. Smile I wasn't taking two days in a row off, I did my race on saturday, long run sunday, then also ran monday. I don't like taking two days off. I think I mentioned taking monday off, but only if I did a LR sunday. Anyways, I think a lot of times I am just running to run, and not really training. I really like the schedule you gave me and will work off that. The tempo today didn't turn out to be nearly as hard as I thought (the girl I was running with was just a tad slow lol), so I will do hills tomorrow. I'm excited about this though, maybe I won't come in last place on the 18th. Tongue But I gotta ask, how did your wife do that? I mean, going off 20 mpw and then getting a 3.54? That's impressive! I'm not going to purposefully cut back my mileage, but I guess I see your point. Thanks again nobby!!
        Skeetermc: Well, you CAN take two days in a row off. There's nothing wrong with it (I believe some Kenyans actually do that); but I would personally recommend spreading it out a bit. That's all. You don't need to cut down your running mileage at all! I think it's great that you love running so much now. That's actually why I felt a bit hesitant to suggest you to go easy on easy days (maybe just a couple of miles???). If someone just simply loves to run an hour or so a day, why discourage it? But IF your goal is actually doing some runs well (fast), then it would be advised to fractuate duration and effort. When you do hard days hard, easy days should be easier accordingly. One of the girls I'm coaching right now, she just loves to run. If you let her, she would do an hour every day at marathon pace. I'm actually having a hard time restricting her runs. We did a 3-hour run last weekend and she thought it was almost her marathon pace (she said she never done 3-hour run that hard). Next day she said she had head-cold; then asked me what she should do (she was scheduled to do some repeats on Wednesday). So I told her NOT to run next 3 days--if she absolutely had to do something, put full jacket and go for a brisk walk. By Wednesday, she sent me an e-mail and said she's dying to run! That's good. I think far too many people who follow a cookie-cutter training program would reach 2 weeks before the marathon feeling absolutely "stuffed" (with famous 3 X 20-milers). It was Bill Bowerman, former U of O coach and co-founder of Nike, who said, "The hungry tiger hunts best." My wife ran her last marathon (before she busted her ACL) at TC marathon last year when temperature was nearing 90. She went out the week before with a group of people who were training for TCM. I think they were supposed to do 12-miles and I told her to cut it back (a little over an hour, I think, that was about 8 miles???). She said she saw many of them "walking" the last 2-miles (of that 12-mile run). They were simply too tired to complete the program. She ran 5 minutes slower than her PR in that hot weather marathon while others were 20~40 minutes slower. I didn't mean to hog this thread; if you have any further question about your training, do feel free to just send me an e-mail. At any other message board, I never hide my identity, my real name (well, nickname) or e-mail address. I didn't know how to disclose my information here and never quite went back and redo it. My e-mail address is: nobby415@msn.com. I always welcome any inquiry, suggestion, even criticism (although not too many send me a criticism, particularly from letsrun forum, because that would reveal their identity and they don't want that! ;o)). You can also check www.lydiardfoundation.org and send me an e-mail from that site as well. Good luck with your running! ;o)


        Bugs

          skee, I'm super addicted to races. I raced a 10K (with all good intentions of running easy) 1 one week before my first marathon. I learned four hours is a long time to run with tired legs. I still struggle with fitting races into my schedule because I never want to cut miles out. I am addicted to the total miles at the end of the week. A few weeks ago I hurt my ankle removing wallpaper. Probably the best thing that happened to me. Forced me to rest, aqua jogg which is closer to a recovery jog than my actual recovery jogs. Then I ran a 15K, PR at 8K, 10K and 15K was the result. The rest made the difference. I'm learning the races are more fun with rest, something to keep in mind as you train.

          Bugs

            Bugs, I've only ran a couple races, but I think I'm already addicted also. Tongue I still struggle with fitting races into my schedule because I never want to cut miles out. I am addicted to the total miles at the end of the week. That's exactly how I am, when I raced my first 10k, I never tapered at all because I wanted to get my 30mpw! Roll eyes Paid for it during the race also...but I listened to what nobby told me this week and actually took a couple easy days, and my long run today felt pretty good. I think I need to learn rest days can be more important than workout days! ha ha, I never thought I'd have to force myself to take an easy day. Tongue nobby, I've saved your email, so be prepared to get questions from me in the future. Big grin I did what you said this week, and I felt a lot better overall rather than doing five hard workouts and none of them being faster times. I think that makes a lot of sense restricting my runs because I really do love to just go out and run for an hour after class, but I suppose if I cut that back I'll be a lot fresher for the HM. Today I did a 13 miler, but the whole week I didnt go over 5! (A first for me ha ha). And I definitely felt pretty good all the way through today. So anyways, thanks a bunch for the advice nobby, I think I'll be much more prepared for the HM rather than the way I was going before! Smile
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