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Training Advice and Opinions Please (Read 886 times)

    First of all, I look at the forums here almost everyday at lunch but I seldom post. I have been using the online log since December 2007. I had a 4 month layoff and started back running in Feb 07. I only missed 3 weeks spread out through the 2007 year and averaged a little over 18 miles per week. I am frustrated as to why my performance has falling so badly since the beginning of this year. I ran a few hard training efforts (probably too hard) for 3.1 miles back in late Dec 07 and Jan 08 at 27:50 to 28:20. I even played around with some repititions in Feb. So, I race 5K's in March and April 08 at 29:16, 28:53, and 28:09. I wore a HR monitor and I know the effort as far as HR goes was there considering what I averaged back on my hard efforts in Dec 07 and Jan 08. I also tried a 10K on 5/3/08 and did terrible and my HR was jacked throughout that race. I had another 10K the week after that but I did not really race it. I just ran it because I was in the vincity. Any opinions as to what I have done wrong or suggestions for improvement would be greatly appreciated. For reference, my best 5K was in 4/21/07 after starting back from the 4 month layoff and only averaged 16 miles per week leading up to the race. I did not have the HR monitor back then. The highest HR I have seen is 185 at the end of one of my 5K races and I do not think I could have squeezed much more out.
      First off...Great to see another MS Delta guy here. I am from G-ville. Your times do seem slow for how long you have been running. I would say, if your log is correct, you have too many easy runs. I would put one workout a week or every 10 days where you really push the pace, maybe just below what you feel race is. Then after that set your easy runs based on your hard run pace. Does that make sense. You might also want to try some track work...200's, 400's, 800,s. Also, June 7th there is a 5K in Leland...and on June 21 there will be a group beginning to train for the St Judes Marathon in Memphis on Dec 6th. Group runs and advice will be part of the weekly schedule...it's $100 bucks but you get a book, singlet, weekly runs, etc... BTW, I just started back but there some folks that will surely post that have been running awhile and can give some great advice.
      2008 GOALS GET BELOW 175 (at 175 now) RUN 6:00 MILE (at 6:29) RUN BELOW 25:30 5K RUN BELOW 55:00 10K RUN A MARATHON (DEC. 6TH - MEMPHIS - ST JUDE)


      The Greatest of All Time

        I guess my question is: what are your goals, time and distance? Are you just wanting to race local 5 and 10k races faster? Or do you have intentions to do longer stuff? From a very brief review of your log, if you want to improve any race times you need to run more miles. You're only 28 and have a lot of potential to get much faster since time is on your side. How many years have you been running? It can take up to 10 years to develop your maximum genetic speed. Most new runners see significant race time improvement during their first 3 or 4 years of training. And don't be alarmed that your HR was jacked during a race. It should be higher. Training HR does not correlate well with racing HR, IMO.
        all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

        Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.
          If y'all do St.Jude's you'll love it. Probably my best race expereince ever. It's hilly and the roads aren't the best but the organization is top notched. I'm running the half again this year just because I had such a great time....plus free beer and pizza at the end.
            that might be the first pizza I have b/w now then Sad
            2008 GOALS GET BELOW 175 (at 175 now) RUN 6:00 MILE (at 6:29) RUN BELOW 25:30 5K RUN BELOW 55:00 10K RUN A MARATHON (DEC. 6TH - MEMPHIS - ST JUDE)


            Hawt and sexy

              Without a goal stated all I can see is two things. First, slow down, with a 10k race pace of over 10mm, an easy day should never hit anywhere in the 10mm range, or 11mm for that matter. Second, run more. Slowing down will allow you to run tons more. So now, we need a goal, this will get you even more advice. Some of it is bound to be good.

              I'm touching your pants.

                Thanks for the replies. BenBuck6: The Delta is great. A training group would be nice. I have a buddy I run with sometimes, but he is at least 2 minutes per mile faster than I am. I hangs around with me for a little while, and then runs off and leaves me. I agree that more miles would be great. I ran the St. Jude Half Marathon this past December, which is where my PR of 10:22 pace and I really enjoyed the course, and I have run the Tupelo 14.2 Miler the past 2 years, which is very laid back and not a whole lot of people. I enjoy the longer distance races a lot. Goals: I would like to run an 8:00 pace 5K and under 2 hours for the half. I would like to also keep a consistent average of at least 30 miles per week, which I know is very doable. *** So, I need to run more miles, duh, and I need to keep it slow. As I try to get my mileage up to a consistent 30 or more per week, should I do some strides once or twice a week or include at least one day of faster running? Or, just keep it all slow and easy?


                Hawt and sexy

                  With your current race paces where they are, 30 mpw will probably not get you where you want to go, but it is a valid goal to try to get to 30 mpw. To get the times down to where you want them, you are going to probably need at least 50 mpw. Speed sessions are only needed for peaking for goal races. You can do striders year round, like 6-10 of them after any run, but that's up to you. Seriously, at your current speed, a I would even hold off on tempo runs until it comes time for peaking. Even then, I would not do more than one every other week. Keep in mind that I am uber conservative with speedwork, you just really don't need a lot of it when you first start up. Most of your mileage should be slow. Yep, it's boring, but at the same time it's calming. And you do get faster just from upping the base mileage. I had goals like that once. It's really not that hard to get there, the hardest part is sticking to the training. After that it just comes together.

                  I'm touching your pants.

                    As far as the original post goes, I think it's probably likely that your test efforts weren't quite 5km. As far as looking at your training, the biggest thing I see that you could improve is that you've only got 7 runs in your log for the first 16 days of the month. Adding a couple more short, easy, and slow days a week could do a lot for getting stronger. Getting a little faster once a week is fine, but not if you're only running 3 days a week. Running 5 days with one long (and easy), 3 easy, and one faster effort (eg. 5-6km at ½ marathon pace, or 3-5 400's at about 2 minutes per) would be a good schedule for you with those goals. Feel free to leave out the speed, but if you want to do a bit of faster running, that's more along the lines of what you should do than 5K all out efforts. Try to cut down a little on the races too, especially since you seem to cut out a lot of running on weeks when you race.
                      In 4 months time you can lose a lot of your running fitness. It's unreasonable to expect to be at the same level you were before you had to take the time off. My suggestion would be to ease off on the racing this summer and focus on a lot of long easy miles. The point of this is to build your base back up to where you had it or even better what you had before. Use your HR monitor and train in your aerobic zone which is typically 70-80% of max for your base building time. If you can increase your miles a bit that would help as well. Good luck Terie
                      Finished my first marathon 1-13-2008 in 6:03:37 at P.F. Chang's in Phoenix. PR in San Antonio RnR 5:45:58!!!!!! on 11-16-08 The only thing that has ever made any difference in my running is running. Goal: Break 2:30 in the HM this year Jay Benson Tri (place in Athena category) 5-10-09
                        Thanks for the advice. I figured the most responses would be to run more, which is good advice that I guess I already knew but still needed to here. If it was easy and didn't take much time to get better, everyone would be doing it. So, I do not plan on racing for a while and I will start scheduling more runs to get my millage up. The Tupelo 14.2 Miler is towards the end of August and will probably be my next race. That gives me 15 weeks or so to build the millage up. Hopefully, I will be able to check back in a couple of months and have something to show for all of the hard work.
                        mgerwn


                        Hold the Mayo

                          So, I do not plan on racing for a while and I will start scheduling more runs to get my millage up. The Tupelo 14.2 Miler is towards the end of August and will probably be my next race. That gives me 15 weeks or so to build the millage up. Hopefully, I will be able to check back in a couple of months and have something to show for all of the hard work.
                          msdelta - If you enjoy the racing, it's not necessary to take off completely from running them - just don't make them the focus of your training. In other threads here you will see mention of picking your "A" race, and planning for that. This is the race you want to do your best in, and which your training is focused on. Then pick "B" races to evaluate where you are and how you are improving with your training, but without putting out 100% race effort (more of a tempo effort). Some also pick "C" races, which they do as part of training, run at a training pace, mainly for the fun of the race environment, and/or to support the cause the race is benefitting. Plan your B (and C) races into your mileage for the week. For example, if you plan to do 6 miles on Saturday or Sunday morning, and there's a 5K you want to do, schedule it in. Do a 1-1.5 mile slow run before the race (as a warmup), then do the race at a tempo speed, then do the rest of the miles you need at a slow pace again. Use your race time to see your improvement from the last B race you did. The other advantage to this is going to races helps you practice racing, if you haven't done it much - dealing with the pre-race logistics and figuring out a routine for yourself, running with lots of other people in your way at the start, not going out too fast, etc. If you like racing, do it - but keep your focus on that "A" race and resist the urge to really race top speed in your B/C races.