Forums >General Running>Weekly volume at 50 years - cut volume and see gains?
At page 292 of this (long) document you'll find a few pages that have been helpful to me as a young 41 year old getting back to training.
Thanks for posting this. I had not seen nor heard this type of advice for masters runners before. Shorter, more intense training cycles for older runners seems contrary to what I've learned elsewhere. Yet, my marathon PR occurred after a short cycle where I tried to make the most of the few weeks I had. I figured it was a fluke. This is an eye-opener.
Excerpt:
The 40-and-up crowd appears to benefit most from an 8-12 week training cycle which features a 3-4 week stint of extremely hard training 2-3 times weekly (with particularly easy recovery days). Varying the running terrain is helpful, especially during a slower stage of training. Taking time off occasionally (or cross-training) can also be crucial to allow for optimal recovery. A healthy diet is essential as well in order to keep feeling young and to have a long, enjoyable running career.
From my perspective, an 8 to 12 week FOCUSED training cycle would not be a bad idea if we assume that the masters runner has a sufficient base that is maintained consistently.
Not sure I agree with the 3-4 week stint of extremely hard training limitation.
If you are maintaining a sufficient base, an 18 to 12 week focused training cycle should not require a 3-4 week extremely hard portion.
I will agree with the balance about varying the terrain, easy recovery days and time off when needed -- listen to your body!
And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx
Rob
Pace Prophet
Note though he also says (emphasis mine):
Since your ability to repair tissue is lower than it was in your 20s, your mileage levels willprobably also be lower as a master. This is particularly true if you were a serious runner earlier inlife and piled up 100 or more miles per week. It’s very tough to do that much past age 40 andstay uninjured! The more volume you can tolerate, the better you will run (and the less you willhave to rely on multi-tier training), but chances are you’ll break down trying to train like a 20-year-old.
My take from this is that yeah, 100 mile weeks will probably break down the older runner, and the OP is talking about fairly high mileage (though not quite this high) - but I suspect a typical semi-serious marathoner who is running 60-75mpw should not take this as a reason to drop to 40mpw as a master.
Much of what is in this part of the document (and man, I have to read the whole thing! It looks like gold) strikes me as sensible training advice for any runner, e.g. keeping easy days easy, including small bits of speed multiple times per week, not running hard more than 3x/week. I think the key suggestion of shorter cycles is really the only one that is aimed exclusively at the older runner.
king of the non-sequitur
dang you guys are fast!!! 53YO slow ultra distance runner here who also got a late start. I fond 70MPW about my peak limit & my parts start to complain if I go over that. like to average around 50MPW. on the topic of lifetime accumulated mileage I'd like to see a comparison between older runners who started late versus lifelong competitive runners
Bridle Trails 50k 1-13-24 5:39
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Thanks to HermosaBoy and a smidge of that article posted by Jeff, I decided to add some volume to my last couple weeks of Boston prep. Got up over 90 this week, 89 last week, and I feel okay. Now, I'm going to start a two-week taper, and I'm really glad I'm not going to sustain multiple 90-mile weeks in a row. It was hard enough to dial it up the last couple weeks or so. We'll see how much hay is in the barn. I ain't PR fit, that's for sure, but I feel like I might be a little stronger than if I had just coasted through the last cycle on 80s.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
So far so good at high volume. Its a Daniels plan (2Q, 3rd edition) so it had 5 of the 18 weeks at peak mileage (90), not sustained over the entire training cycle - and some variance on the other weeks (mostly cycling between 72-81 mpw). From weeks 12 from race day to 6 from race day is when all the 100% weeks occurred. I'm actually surprised one of them wasn't 4 weeks out, the peak 6 weeks out seems like a long way away now. Anyways - I ran a 10K at a track to gauge fitness this past weekend and matched my times from 5 years ago for me - so I seem to be holding up. I've also shortened the taper from 3 weeks to 2, as I find I detrain alot quicker than I used to. I actually think I might be in shape to improve on my PB from 2013, just depends on how my legs react to the Boston hills and of course the weather!
I've also shortened the taper from 3 weeks to 2, as I find I detrain alot quicker than I used to. I actually think I might be in shape to improve on my PB from 2013, just depends on how my legs react to the Boston hills and of course the weather!
I discovered a long time ago that a 3-week taper is way too long for me also. Maybe I have always detrained quickly!
Good luck to you! May we have 50 degrees, cloudy skies, and a west breeze. :-)
I discovered a long time ago that a 3-week taper is way too long for me also. Maybe I have always detrained quickly! Good luck to you! May we have 50 degrees, cloudy skies, and a west breeze. :-)
You to! Let's show 'em what masters have left in the tank!
FWIW since turning 50 (I'm now 52.5) I've continued to increase my average and peak weekly mileage, topping out around 120 before recent big races. However, intensity is turned way down -- I focus on very long slow races. And this year I have not managed to hit 90 yet. :-( Still beat up from that 48-hour over New Years.
If I were focusing on a fast marathon I'm not sure what I would do.
Interesting reading everyone. Im 50 in 4 weeks. I have never been much over 60 mpw which I did for my 2 marathon cycles aged 45 and 46. Since then Ive not regain full motivation and have periods of 20 mpw followed by periods of 40-50 mpw. Still found the 20 mpw kept a little general fitness but obviously no where near enough to achieve good running times. People are staying fitter longer and 50s is just the old 40s !
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
This guy I work with is in his 60's and has been running and cross training his whole life. He never runs in training over 10 miles and has completed numerous marathons and ultra marathons, along with a Boston qualifier.
I'm the same way. Right now I'm 42, and I rarely if ever go over 10 miles training for a marathon. I concentrate on cross training along with strength training to supplement the mileage, and I always feel strong during races. When I constantly pound mile after mile during training I feel weak and tired. My max is 30-40 per week, and as long as I stick with strength training I feel great. I already know what it feels like to run on tired legs.
I know what it feels like to run a marathon severely undertrained, like on 40 mpw and 10-mile long runs. It's like 45-60 minutes slower than my capability!
Bingo..... Big difference between just running a marathon and racing one. Not to say that really high mileage is always the way to go, but adequate volume will trump low volume every time.
PR's: Mar - 2:44;50 1/2 Mar - 1:16:59 10 Mile 58:03 10K - 33:30 (Back in High School)
On the comeback trail.
not bad for mile 25
I'm 65, and will be running my next marathon in 5 weeks with somewhat fewer miles than previous ones, i.e. 50-60 vs 60-70 mpw. Not any specific strategy; it's just how life is working out at the moment. I'll see how it goes.
Hey vanhalen26, how did you come out?