2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 491 times)

Fishyone


     

     

    Question for the hive mind - How much non-running time do you typically get in a LR (say, 16-20 or 22 miles)? Run it all continuously? Stop once to refill water? Small water stops every 3-5 miles?

     

    Keen another really good high mileage week.  I stop as little as possible.  2-3 pee stops and 1 water refill only.  It’s my OCD….just like I can’t bring myself to walk even between sprints where I know I need full recoveryπŸ˜‚

     

    Do others pause their watch?  I don’t and sometimes I catch myself speeding up so the mile doesn’t look so bad on my garmin….

    5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

    DavePNW


       

      Do others pause their watch?  

       

      Without fail.

      Dave

      JMac11


      RIP Milkman

        I am shocked at the number of people saying they stop for pee breaks. I hope that isn't the case for your marathons!

         

        Keen - highly dependent on weather. Winter long runs? 0 stops, even for 22 miles. Summer? I've stopped as much as 5-6 times for water. I have tried carrying water but there's only so much you can take with you.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

         

        cinnamon girl


          goddamn Flavio you always make me jealous! I had to google those cities for their region.

           

          Keen - it was planned 7 mi continuous at HM effort? That sounds a bit much to be expected, no? Nice miles

           

          My 18 mi on Sunday had just a bit over 2 min non-running time due to a couple stoplights. When I lived in San Diego it was easily around 15 min due to stoplights and traffic and was fucking annoying.

           

          Ian - how are you doing? Maybe you stay off the internet race week? Good luck at Antwerp !!

          2022                                                          

          Mar: Oakland Half 1:28:59                       

          Aug: Lake Merced Half 1:28:14                

          Oct: Rogue Half 1:27:14

           

           

           

          flavio1980


          Intl. correspondent

            Keen - I mostly run without water, maybe one or two quick stops at a water fountain, no more than 20 seconds each.

             

            Jmac - Pee breaks are fine but I want to hear about the poo breaks Big grin

             

            Cinnamon - Galicia (the region those cities are at) is pretty interesting. They speak a different language which looks a lot like Portuguese but sounds like Spanish. It's pretty interesting, especially Santiago de Compostela which is the destination for thousands of pilgrims every year who walk hundreds or thousands of Ks to get there.

             

            me - I had yet another nice workout today, 6x4 minutes average 3:50/km 6:10/mi. I'm slowly gaining fitness, but still very far from PR shape.

            The plan is to run a very hilly 10k race in Sep 25th, then run a flat 10K Nov 6th. That 10k in November might be a PR attempt depending on how I progress.

            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

            Up next: 10K corrida das 4 estacoes - Coimbra/Portugal 2023-02-05

            Tool to generate Strava weekly

            CommanderKeen


            Cobra Commander Keen

              Thanks for all the input, everyone.
              I also try aiming for the least amount of stopped time possible, which, combined with my want to get more than CIMs elevation gain (mimicking the loss is harder) in every LR has lead to me doing loops. I dislike handhelds, and so typically wear one of these and start with one bottle (usually comfortably for 9-10+ miles during the summer) with a reserve on my mailbox. Pass by the house after a 9-10 mile loop, ditch the empty, grab the full on on the go.
              It's a bit tragic to me, DWave, that this method isn't an option for you.


              Mark & Flavio - No water, even in the summer? Even if I had the resources (there are no water fountains in rural anywhere) to do that here I don't know that I would/could.


              Fishy - Thanks! I do pause my watch if I ever stop for some reason. It's not like it's difficult to see moving vs total time in Garmin or Strava.


              Cinnamon - Yeah, 7 continuous. Definitely ambitious, but one I've done successfully before.


              Flavio - Nice workout - I'm glad to see the progress.

              5k: 17:58 11/22 β”‚ 10k: 37:55 9/21 β”‚ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 β”‚ M: 2:56:05 12/22

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

              Heartland 50 - May 6

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                Thanks for all the input, everyone.
                I also try aiming for the least amount of stopped time possible, which, combined with my want to get more than CIMs elevation gain (mimicking the loss is harder) in every LR has lead to me doing loops. I dislike handhelds, and so typically wear one of these and start with one bottle (usually comfortably for 9-10+ miles during the summer) with a reserve on my mailbox. Pass by the house after a 9-10 mile loop, ditch the empty, grab the full on on the go.
                It's a bit tragic to me, DWave, that this method isn't an option for you.

                 

                 

                Have you considered doing squats and other body weight exercises to strengthen your legs for the downhill portions of the race? Also, does the pink make you more or less recognized by cars?

                 

                Garmin Connect

                2ish (1:54) hour long run. elapsed time 1:54:37. moving time 1:54:19.

                 

                trail run

                Garmin Connect

                elapsed time 3:18. Moving time 3:12. I stopped at the top for some photos. It was windy and cold and I really didn't want to be there. Like "
                60 mph gusts" windy. I was walking on the rocky ridgeline I probably shouldn't have been on either.

                 

                Garmin Connect

                2:11:47 elapsed time. 2:11 45 moving time. 17 miler.

                oh I remember this one. It was 2:30am and I couldn't sleep. Run every street.

                 

                I'm fortunate to live in an area conducive to running non stop, or when I do "stop" I'm actually walking. Really the only times I stop are to wait for someone or a red light. I think it  comes from very early in my marathon training where I was probably afraid of stopping and lightly jogging was better than walking because I was trying to build endurance. Now...I'll walk the last 100m to the end of the run just because I don't feel like running it.

                 

                JMac you're hydration needs in the summer are fucking nuts. You drink more water in 1 run than I drink in an entire day, or maybe week. Seriously, I think my hydration vest wouldn't be enough for you and it carries a gallon of water.

                 

                Fishy I don't pause my watch. I have elapsed time on the run screen so it truthfully doesn't matter. I know how long I've been away from home/starting location. I just don't care so much about the mile or two I'm stopping. If I actually cared I'd just make a new lap for stops/starts. I've forgotten to restart my watch a few times so I stopped stopping it.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 52.45

                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                CommanderKeen


                Cobra Commander Keen

                   

                  Have you considered doing squats and other body weight exercises to strengthen your legs for the downhill portions of the race? Also, does the pink make you more or less recognized by cars?

                   

                   

                  I have considered this. I've even done this. But it also hasn't stuck. *channel inner Flavio* Shame on me.

                   

                  Mine is orange. When I pulled up the site to copy the link it showed the black one. Perhaps you're seeing pink because of your browser history. You might check that.

                  5k: 17:58 11/22 β”‚ 10k: 37:55 9/21 β”‚ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 β”‚ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  Heartland 50 - May 6

                  DavePNW


                    JMac—despite needing a bathroom stop in virtually every single training run, I manage to never need one in a race. A single extremely noteworthy exception: CIM last year, which cost me a PR. 

                    Flavio—well I was being discreet; I have a poop stop on most of my training runs too. Though not as often in LRs, since for those I usually allow more pre-run time after waking up.

                    Dave

                    JMac11


                    RIP Milkman

                       

                       

                      JMac you're hydration needs in the summer are fucking nuts. You drink more water in 1 run than I drink in an entire day, or maybe week. Seriously, I think my hydration vest wouldn't be enough for you and it carries a gallon of water.

                       

                       

                       

                      In my last 21 mile long run, I took in 44 ounces of water. I still bonked at the end from dehydration and had to run/walk the final mile.

                      ETA because I know Keen will ask: yes, I was taking in electrolyte pills.

                       

                      I've found I need about 20 oz of water per hour of running for long runs in heat to prevent bad dehydration. Even after those runs, I'm still drinking 40oz+ after the run in the next hour or two.

                       

                      This is why running marathon is such a delicate balance for me. I sweat a lot, but my stomach has trouble taking in liquids/food at MP.

                       

                      mmerkle - see above. Not every long run goes well, especially in the summer. I often bonk them badly. When the weather turns, I feel like I can eat steel, even though all the summer long runs are done with either walk breaks or run very slowly.

                       

                      Ian - you still around for your taper week??

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                       

                      CalBears


                        Thanks Cal. I should probably focus more on effort, since a lot of things can affect pace. I have a tendency to obsess a little over numbers. I know your mileage is pretty high, but what is it usually during "the peak" of marathon training? My peak is usually 65-70 per week. This cycle I'm hoping for a few consecutive weeks in the 70's.

                         

                        When I ran my life PR time at age of 50, I had a dream training cycle - 3 weeks in row, before 3 weeks of taper, I ran around 108 miles per week - all three weeks included at least 2 workouts a week. Interestingly, it took me only one year to get to 3000 miles per year - you can check my log - second year of running I already ran 3000 miles, the year before PR year I ran 3500 miles. So, I think the mileage is crucial in marathon performance - at least for me. I think, my slowing down last few years is nit only to aging, but to less yearly mileage too.

                         

                        Fishyone - thanks! continue with training, consistency is the king - I agree with Marky there. I continue to be a proponent of constant smaller improvements - like, if you ran your previous marathon 3:10, I do similar or better training and target something like 3:05-3:06 - not 20 minutes improvement, like many try to target. For me, personally, if I just ran 7:20 pace, I have some confidence that it is real to run 7:10-7:15 pace - confidence and belief is a big part for me in achieving the goal. But I guess, it's just me 

                         

                        SteveChCh - thanks! nothing legendary about it Smile - it's just sub 3, not even MM. And no, there was no sandbagging, I swear - I ran the race and didn't feel really good the whole race, especially up to mile 14. Only after mile 14 I thought, that if I am lucky and and my body will sustain my mental effort, I have a chance for sub 3. The body did well Smile.

                         

                        In all my marathons I have ran, I only had pee break once - at Boston 2015, and only because I stupid enough deciding that drinking 1 liter of Gatorade before the race would help my performance Smile. But at least I learned that time that it doesn't work for me.

                         

                        And yes - I am stopping my watch when I stop at fountains or traffic lights... Few times I was forgetting to turn watch back on Smile

                        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                        Ian5


                          Keen-I only stop if I really haver to,if it's a short stop I don't stop my watch as seconds don't matter averaged out,but if i'm going to be there a while then I do.

                          Mark-Well done on your 10k and on the team gold.

                          Cal-Brilliant on your sandbagging,stunning result,and well done on London,did you get a late entry or already have 1?

                          Steve-You are looking realkly good to go now,hope you get what you deserve.

                          Darkwave-Great news on Chicago,well deserved after the last few months work you've put in.

                          Cinnamon-Here is your answer

                          Apologies for being absent and not commenting if I've missed anyone.

                          We had 5 days booked in Prague a while back so just got back tonight, it also coincided with the Prague 10k last Saturday so it would have been rude to not take Kipruto etc on. We had a long day walking before the race and I struggled around, just sneaking under 40,not an ideal time but the cobbles and sore legs took it's toll and I didn't push to the max.Great atmosphere though and the support was incredible, free drinks and massages before and after, massive tech area just for runners, free medal engraving, lots of goodies, and Prague is brilliant for a night celebrating anything.

                          5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            JMac - I never pee in a race (probably shouldn't tempt fate).  For long run workouts I don't get up early enough to have a big enough gap between drinking and running.  I also have a coffee which I won't do this weekend to simulate my hydration plan exactly.

                             

                            Nice bit of subtle trolling too - I was checking Ian's race and see my goal has mysteriously changed again.  I've definitely started to feel a bit more confident in the last few weeks.  One last big one this weekend then taper and obsessively trying to predict the weather on race day - a major factor.

                             

                            Cal - I think your approach of small improvements is very sensible.  I see people who do 3:50 then a 3:10 and I shake my head.  I guess they're not that experienced or don't train properly for the first one.  I think your effort was legendary because you thought you weren't in PR or MM shape and still came close to that MM.  Your next one will be interesting.

                            5km: 18:53 12/22 β”‚ 10km: 40:49 2/22 β”‚ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 β”‚ M: 3:35:02 10/22

                            *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

                            Upcoming Races:

                            Motorway Half Marathon February 26, 2023, City to Surf 12km March 19, 2023, Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                               

                              Nice bit of subtle trolling too - I was checking Ian's race and see my goal has mysteriously changed again.  I've definitely started to feel a bit more confident in the last few weeks.  One last big one this weekend then taper and obsessively trying to predict the weather on race day - a major factor.

                               

                               

                              Ugh that was a mistake. I changed it manually last time on the front page, but forgot to in my master Excel sheet. I will change it back. Not trolling you! I know you want to take that crown from our current king, Cal . Gonna be tough though, you'll have to run a 3:09:12. Maybe that's your A goal 

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              Fishyone


                                I am shocked at the number of people saying they stop for pee breaks. I hope that isn't the case for your marathons!

                                 

                                Keen - highly dependent on weather. Winter long runs? 0 stops, even for 22 miles. Summer? I've stopped as much as 5-6 times for water. I have tried carrying water but there's only so much you can take with you.

                                 

                                I've stopped once in every marathon I've run. Usually within the first couple of miles then not after.  It's super easy and quick in the smaller races and in the first 3-4 miles of Boston.....maybe I'm "marking my territory"  But I've hit multiple trees in Hopkinton and Ashland....

                                5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015)