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70.3 TRAINING! (Read 2502 times)

yellowbicycle


    OK so I recently did 2 marathons in the last 3 months.. and now getting back to TRI training. I have kept up at least 1 (sometimes 2) rides a week and also teach spin 2x a week but swimming is definitely my weakest link! I have done 2 half ironmans before but I really want to get faster this time.. and where I seem to be behind is in the water. Last year in my age group I was 40-something out of the water, 20-something off the bike and then 11th by the end. If I could improve my swimming a bit I would definitely loose less time. I am just not sure how much improvement I would see in the water. I can comfortably make the distance but I am not sure of the best ways to improve my time. I also intend to do more bricks training this season so I can get faster off the bike. Not sure if I would consider the run or the bike my stronger sport but it seems to be where I have the advantage as alot of people are fading by then...

    I looked online at some training schedules and they have me swimming 3x a week, run 3x ad bike 3x. RIght now I currently run about 35-40 miles a week plus will be picking back up to the 2x bike, 2 spin... cannot imagine how I would fit 3 swims in on top of this. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it would help me to drop a run in order get more swimming?? I don't want my running to suffer but.... 

     

    FYI the 70.3 is not until October so I have some time!

     

    THanks for your time Smile

      Post in the Swim Bike Run group on RA, its all triathletes.

       

      The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

       

      2014 Goals:

       

      Stay healthy

      Enjoy life

       

        It depends on how fast of a swimmer you are now.  Were you 40 out of 40 or 40 out of 2000?  If you are already a good swimmer you can't expect big gains in your swim times and since the swim is relatively short it makes less sense to focus on it.  A small gain in biking fitness translates to a larger total time saving then a small gain in swim fitness.  Now if you are a slow swimmer you could relatively easily drop 5-10 minutes on the swim and do so with using less energy so you'll be faster on the bike too.

        Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get. -- Homer Simpson

          I have no personal experience of triathlon - so take this with a pinch of salt Smile

           

          Generally with any kind of athletic training you get diminishing returns the more you do. Gains come quickly to begin with, and then it becomes harder and harder to improve as you get better. So you'd think that the best gains would come from working more at the thing you're least good at. 

           

          Having said that a lot of people I know who do a bit of triathlon seem to do a lot less swimming than running and cycling, but I'm not sure that's because they think it's the best training strategy, or more that they get bored ploughing up and down the swimming pool :/

           

          MTA: I guess the complication is that the 3 legs of the triathlon don't all take the same amount of time (typically). For example Googling tells me that the Olympic record is 1:48:24 with splits of 17:56 (swim), 58:54 (bike) and 30:53 (run). So a 1% improvement in swimming pace is worth less that a 1% improvement in running pace, which in turn is worth less than a 1% improvement in biking pace. So you have to balance the diminishing returns thing against the fact that the 3 legs don't have equal contribution to your total time.



          Best Present Ever

            I'm not training for a tri.  However, just for fun, I've been taking some swim lessons with my kids' swim coach.  It's amazing what I've been able to improve in just two lessons.  It might be worth getting someone to look at your stroke and improve your mechanics. 

            JLM


              I think we should sometimes look at the longer term. If you can let go of your running milage per week (mentally I mean) and start thinking of your pool milage, then in the long run you'll probably be a better triathlete. If you have any ambitions of doing a full IM one day, then you'll need to get your swim stamina and technique up to scratch eventually. It may be worth investing in your swimming, even if it costs you a bit in the short term. Actually, you might even be surprised to find that your running stays strong, even if you are down below 20 or 30 miles per week.


              CUCHSUX

                i have been told that the swimmin event in a tri is a very small paht of the whole thing...that if you ah at least comfortable as a swimmer, it is the bikin and the runnin that is goin to make your race. i have believed this to be true as well it is the event where u spend the least amount of time...and that some amount of bike time right into a run is where u need to concentrate your efforts. so unless you "need" to pull back on bikin/runnin to swim, doin so will only hurt u. i may have been misinformed though.

                the worst thing you can do for someone drowning in shark infested waters is throw them a life preserver. don't you think?

                 

                 

                 

                 

                  Question from someone with absolutely no experience with the tri: Even though the swim is a proportionally smaller part of the race, doesn't it's position right up front make it disproportionately more important?  I'm thinking in terms of a running race, what you do right at the beginning is going to have a huge impact on how the later stages of the race go.  I guess an analogy would be that 8yo kid who blasts out of the gates in a 5k and then is pretty much tanked for the remaining 4.5k.  A poor swimmer (and here I am speaking from experience) exerts a LOT of wasted energy, and it seems to me that this is going to have a pretty big impact on the biking and running portions. 

                  "Because in the end, you won't remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn.  Climb that goddamn mountain."

                  Jack Kerouac


                  CUCHSUX

                    Question from someone with absolutely no experience with the tri: Even though the swim is a proportionally smaller part of the race, doesn't it's position right up front make it disproportionately more important?  I'm thinking in terms of a running race, what you do right at the beginning is going to have a huge impact on how the later stages of the race go.  I guess an analogy would be that 8yo kid who blasts out of the gates in a 5k and then is pretty much tanked for the remaining 4.5k.  A poor swimmer (and here I am speaking from experience) exerts a LOT of wasted energy, and it seems to me that this is going to have a pretty big impact on the biking and running portions. 

                     my brain tells me that i am goin to make any tri i do in the swim because i am that 8year old kid.  and this is why i question what i wrote there. i have been told repeatedly i go out too fast when i run...but it's what works for me. maybe that's the ansah then to this threads question. do what's right for u at the time undah any circumstances and experience will dictate any revisions to your current plans.

                    the worst thing you can do for someone drowning in shark infested waters is throw them a life preserver. don't you think?

                     

                     

                     

                     

                      In no way do I speak with authority on this matter, especially if you were 40th in age group (or moreso if it was 40th overall for swimming, 20th in biking, .....

                       

                      But, for me, my goal for the 70.3 was to gain as much efficiency in the swim to keep myself strong for the bike and run.  To do so, I was at the pool 3 mornings per week for about 25- 50 minutes per swim (1500 yds to 2500 yds).

                      I continued with my 2 or 3 bike rides per week, and my 2 or 3 runs per week, and at least 1 weight training per week.

                       

                      I came in with decent running and biking background, but was a below average swimmer (2:05 / 100m).

                      Overall, I put the least focus on the run, and I knew that it would be hot and the weather would force me to adjust my goal pace or I'd run into another obstacle that would challenge me.  I did all my training runs with endurance as my goal, not speed. 

                       

                      For biking, my focus was on leg strength and endurance.

                       

                      For swimming, my goal was efficiency.  The problem with swimming is that it's very technical.  It's like golf.... If you've golfed before, you can go out and golf OK anytime, but in order to be good, you need to be out there frequently.  If you're out of the pool for 7 or more straight days, you'll be slower when you get back in the pool.  The technical aspect of swimming is valuable, and takes frequent practice, but does not require a lot of time in the pool.

                       

                      Summary of my training: 23% time in water, 44% time on bike, 33% time on run

                      Summary of my race: 13% time in water, 51% time on bike, 35% time on run.

                       

                      Cheers,

                      Brian

                      2014 Goals:

                      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                      #2: 365 Hours training

                       

                        Try to find a local master's swim team. The coaches there can make a once weekly swim way more effective than you trying to swim own your own. The two major gains you'll get is better form from coaching and motivation of being with a group. I know man people who ride to and from practices to get in some extra bike time as well.

                          Ditto on the Masters swim group. 

                           

                          I was a member of one for a couple of years and only started running because I wanted to start doing Tri's. I had a great swim base from my Masters group and did a couple of short tri's once I added running to my workouts.  Our group met @ 5:30 or 6am and it was great getting a swim in 3-4 days a week with a coach.   And consistancy with swimming is crucial -  if you're out of the pool too many days in a row - you loose your conditioning fast.

                           

                          Good luck & have fun.