Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 half marathon in 2017
Hey guys...it's definitely a tough week if you look at from a volume-of-speed standpoint, but consider that I had one day that was only 4 miles, and a Saturday completely off. That is some adequate recovery for a week under 50 miles.While the 5x1000 was somewhat difficult, the 6 miles at sub-7 the following day was far more difficult than it should have been. I'm going to do a similar week this week, but flip-flop the 10 mile run and 6 miles at half marathon pace. The 10 mile run should be as lazy and as slow I want it to be.I also feel that I should run a little longer on weekends. I'd like to try a 15 miler at a relatively comfortable pace.
Flavio lucky you came off relatively unscathed. I tripped a few years ago early one morning in the dark. There was a loop of wire that snared my legs and i couldnt get my hand down so fell on my shoulder.
Run i got you on strava so now we will be real people to each other
Bro why dont you seperate those 2 workout days with 2 days between ? Sorry if you already said. They are tough workouts.
Jmac its quite a change from peak marathon training and running the race to post race training isnt it.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Bro why dont you seperate those 2 workout days with 2 days between ? Sorry if you already said. They are tough workouts. .
.
I've been doing this type of week for years...and I've sort of learned to deal with the wear/tear on my body.
Monday's 4-5 miler is usually very slow and comfortable to just recover for the longer Sunday run the day before.
Tuesday is usually a hard 5K interval session or short harder tempo or a combination of the two.
Wednesday is a that half-marathon workout but I'm going to switch it to Thursdays. Essentially it helps me lock into that 10K race feel without pushing that hard...but it's pretty beneficial to half-mary training too.Thursday is a steady to easy 10 miler for volume.
Friday is hard, short intervals or hill repeats. Locking into the miler training and working on top-end speed.Saturday I take off to recover and relax.Sunday is a Long Run to work on overall endurance. 10 to 17 miles. It's as easy as I want it to be.As you can see this type of week works on every phase of training.
Piwi - You got my name right for the first time in your post and then changed it back :-) Yes, there is an "e" at the end of my name. I figured it was worth following more of the people from this thread on Strava to keep up with your daily running.
Bro - That's pretty close to the typical Kenyan training weeks, which often go something like Monday - Tempo, usually with hills involved, Tuesday - Track Intervals, Wednesday - Moderate (and kind of long), Thursday - Fartlek, Friday - Easy, Saturday - Long, at a hard pace, Sunday - Rest. Of course, they also double up Monday-Thursday with a recovery run in the afternoon.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
RIP Milkman
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with doing back to back quality days if your body can handle it. Of course, not all of ours can. But this is definitely a case of knowing your own training/injury habits. I especially like doing 20 minute tempo runs after a day of intervals. These traditional tempo runs are short enough that they're not really a lot of wear and tear and your body, but they'll be especially difficult after a day of intervals. I wouldn't, however, complete 5K of intervals the day before and then go out for a 3x2 mile cruise interval workout.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Rune gotcha with an E !
Bro/Jmac yeah Im sure theres some good stimulus from back to back days. Im not far off 50 years old and it would be a struggle for me. The 6 mile tempo is always a toughie and the 5 x 1ks are hard on me too.
Flavio - glad you escaped relatively unscathed! A friend had an incident a couple years ago here where she tripped on a crack in the footpath and fractured her collarbone. Not cool.
Re back to back workouts - OK everyone knows I do these relatively often. It's manageable, subject to four factors, I reckon.
Firstly, I think some people are naturally more wired for it, physically and mentally, which means some people aren't.
Second, it's still not an excuse to throw out the usual rule of 80% of mileage at an easy effort.
Thirdly, I think the type of workouts matters quite a lot. I definitely wouldn't be smashing out really hard intervals on back to back days. But something like JMac suggests, with intervals one day, followed by a short-ish tempo block the following day, is a pretty reasonable combination.
Finally, I think it also matters where the runs sit in your weekly cycle. I have 2 days each week which are non-running days (normally weights and sometimes aerobic cross-training). Obviously it's easier hitting back-to-back workouts if you're coming in fresh, versus if you've been running the previous 5 days.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Good points Mark. There is a huge difference between a 40 min tempo and a 20 min tempo.
Even with my limited running this fall I've had a couple of back to back days, mostly with a tempo run followed by one of my fast long runs. I've definitely felt it on the long run days, mostly in terms of tired legs, but it's been ok overall.
Ran 3x800 today in my second to last workout before the race, and right now it feels like my legs are flying. The intervals definitely felt easier than usual, and with only 3 reps I felt completely in control all the time. Now it's just a day of some short bursts at HM pace on Thursday left, and then the race on Sunday.
Intl. correspondent
Bro - thanks for the link. I find duration for short intervals is much easier to read.
It’s also my experience that the garmin will vary. I do just like you, I start and stop at the same location.
Some people are better suited physically for speed workouts (i.e. not injury prone).
Rune and James - You’re up next this weekend! Is there live tracking for your races so we can cyberstalk track you guys?
jmac - Ah, at last someone is mortal on this board. Now it’s a good time to sit back and relax.
The fitness you accumulated during many months of marathon training will not go away any time soon.
Piwi - oh man, you’re quite popular on Strava! Thanks for the great pics, it's always nice to see them.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Flavio, yes there is live tracking but I'm not sure how good it is as the map still shows last year's course (there are a couple minor changes due to construction). Anyway, this is the link: https://track.rtrt.me/e/SFM-BERK-2017#/tracker. Bib 2735.
Rune and James: Best of luck this weekend! We will be cheering for you
Flavio: Glad you are OK after you fall. I tripped once on a wire ring that is used to keep wheel covers on the rims. I almost did the same las week.
Tempo: I ran yesterday 7K tempo (one break in between to allow my friend to cool down) and I was happy to see the outdoor pace matches the tempo pace on the TM (that I tried for the last 2 weeks). But this brings a good topic to argue in this forum:
Mr. Fellrnr is now sustaining that Tempo runs are not important
http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Tempo_Runs
Well, someone will dismiss him "yeah, right, that comes from the same guy that loves FIRST" (sorry, Rune, I named it)... But, at the same time, he has valuable information and supported comparisons between plans.
I'm a tempo believer, and I think that's what makes me better at HM over any other distance... But I don't think I should reject a different POV.
Fellnr rails against tempo runs, but then recommends Jack Daniels as his top plan for marathoners in our category (Enthusiast). So yeah, not really sure how seriously to take him when it comes to his recommendation on tempo runs. However, I will say that his comparison of energy gels may be the most extensive and useful in all of the interwebs: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Comparison_of_Energy_Gels
JamesD
Rune - Good luck! Always encouraging to have your last few fast runs go well. I'll do a few strides & a mile at HM or tempo pace Thursday before my Saturday race. Resting today & Friday.
Flavio - The tracking link for my race isn't up yet, but there will be one at www.soldiermarathon.com You'll need to enter my last name, Dudley. The only timing mats/clocks are at 6.2 and 10 miles, so I assume those are the only splits the link will have. Based on last year's splits and my current shape, I'm hoping for splits in the 41s for 6.2 and 1:07s for 10, or maybe a little slower if the predicted 10-15 mph wind affects me. Other than the wind, the weather forecast is pretty encouraging, with temperatures in the low 50s (10-12) and 70% humidity. The race starts at 8am Eastern Standard Time, so I think 9 or 10 your time. Thanks for following me. I'll tell myself, "Flavio is watching, run faster!" late in the race.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Interesting link Jaime, although I think he's being very broad in which articles he's choosing for his "Evidence against tempo runs" (several inconclusive studies, studies referring to any sort of medium pace as tempo runs). When he also refers to everything between "Long slow distance" and "High intensity interval training" as "No man's land" he lost all credibility with me.