2018 3:20 (and beyond) (Read 582 times)

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25 Miles for me last week.  Also 2 decent hikes on Monday and Saturday (2500 and 3000 feet of vert for those).  I returned to the ULake track, settling on a simple 2x2 tempoish type thing.  I was comfortable at 6:50 pace, but I was hoping for a little faster.  Regardless, it was good to do some kind of workout.  Sunday I tried to find an 'easier' place to run long but my attempt at Lake Mendocino turned into a legit trail thing, so I cut it back and only did 7.

Cobb mountain was a weird one, the summit is decent for the area, good prominence..  Once on top I saw the Sonoma County high point was nearby, but not at the top.  The Cartographers did Sonoma no favors, they could have had a nice little mountain for their high point.  Instead it was a lumpy hill 300 feet lower than the top of Cobb.  Oh, well.

McBen: I've kicked our dog...and my son doing donkey kicks before. Caught my Son right under the chin. 

 

Oooof!  Forget about running... it looks like you'll need ropes, harness, carabiners and all that stuff

Seriously.  You'll want to be on belay for that one!  Kendall Mountain ended with 300 feet in a tenth of a mile, and I was scrambling a lot of it using both hands.  At least it's up and not down...

 

I agree with this.  When I'm racing a marathon, I try to be as absolutely smooth as possible - I'll even take a wider track if it means not having to brake or surge.  Find an effort and a rhythm, and lock into it.

 

That's one reason I don't necessarily like to plan to run with others on race day - people will surge or lessen, based on what their watch says or other external factors, and I'm just trying to be absolutely even.

 

I've been wondering if that's what ultimately got me at my race in March. Not being patient enough at first after my bathroom break during mile 12 (my HR tells me I ran a bit too fast right afterwards), and then being stressed when I realized the 3:30 group was ahead of me (when they shouldn't have been based on my pace earlier), causing me to run miles 15, 16, and 17 10-15 seconds per mile too fast compared with my goal. Hopefully I've learned this time around.

I've mentioned this issue in the 1:30 thread as well, but has anyone here had problems with gels at harder efforts, but been ok with them at m-pace or slower? I now have a fair amount of data points indicating to me that taking a gel right before or during efforts at HM to tempo pace affects my performance in a negative way. Sunday was the last one, and while it was warm by our standards (83 degrees but dry), it was crazy how bad I felt during my tempo segment. Last Wednesday I did a 2+2+1+1+1 tempo workout, and averaged a 6:46 pace for those 7 miles. Yes, the last mile was hard, but I had enough spring in my step to complete the workout. On Sunday I was supposed to do 2+2+2, and had to cut it to 2+2+1, and that was at a 7:01 average pace, and I was completely dead at the end. I have a handful of HMs where I have faded noticeably worse after taking a gel as well, including the one this summer, so I'm now officially quitting gels during HMs.

Brew -- really sorry about the stomach issue. It seems like everybody gets one eventually. I had a wipe-out at CIM and spent more time in the porta-potties than on the course. Happy you saw it through. And yes. Trail marathons and ultras. Nice people; fun events, and a lot less wrapped up in all of it.

Arvind -- cramping sucks because there isn't anything you can do about it. It's not like you can push through muscles that aren't firing. It's like they aren't yours. Good luck working through it. I'm not sure if you have cramps on your LRs, or if that would tell you a lot. Have you tried running on no food or water during training to see if your body adapts?

Rovatti, OMR -- it's great seeing you guys out there logging serious miles. Makes me very happy.

McB -- go Hoka. I never thought of Hoka's a neutral and not too squishy. I thought that's what they aren't.

DW -- congrats. Nice race and a good setup for sub3 at CIM.

Keen -- hellofa week. And you can't do anything about heat, humidity and hills. Mother Nature always wins.

Ace -- great dog story. Well played.

Max -- what's let to say. Madness.

Old guys -- I might have finally found a sustainable pace. It seems like I'm settling into 9:10-ish, and I can go longer, do more miles per week and the achilles doesn't flare up. That up from 50mpw around 8:30. If I can stay in this zone, I can put together some 60 mile weeks and maybe build a reasonable base. Faster things break. Maybe.

Also, I might have lost Valencia as a goal race. DD1 is going to spend Thanksgiving with BF's parents, so we are going to fly from Chicago and NYC after Thanksgiving to see her, which runs into Valencia on Dec 2. Gotta find a race.

Brew: 1) Don't do gels and gatorade at the same time.  They interfere with each other.  2) Chicago IMHO is a great locals race but not worth the trip.  If you want to go fast, stay local and run CIM.  If you want to travel, pick a place you want to visit and plan on a fun run.  If you want an interesting race experience, do a trail race/ultra.  Simple rules to live by.  3) What everyone else has said about it sometimes taking 2 or 3 tries after training to see the benefits.  Marathons suck, even if you (mostly) don't.

So... I have this Euchre Bar Massacre thing on Saturday.  I got the secret directions and map today and I'm pretty excited now - it seems real and vaguely do-able.  I was originally signed up for the 50 mile - which has about 8 finishers ever - but dropped to the 25 mile event (~19 finishers) because DW will be with me and the 25 mile event might only eat one day of my life.  I get to go up and down hills called things like "Idiot's Gambit" and "The Nun's Finger".  And apparently the worst blackberry thickets are in the 50 mile race.  Still have to deal with poison oak but according to the FB group, that's what Mean Green Scrub is for.  (Public school bathroom soap was also recommended.)  I also got some good advice on how to get the best oakgasm, which apparently is a thing.

I wish I could come hang out Saturday. Family photos at 5:30. I don't think we'll have enough time to enjoy it together. Is there a specific reason you want to visit the Forrest Hill area so much?

I couldn't fit "marathon training sucks" on to the medal. I also couldn't find a shirt saying the same thing. IT was pretty much a wasted trip.

JMac No I don't recall attempting to wash down gels with gatorades. I remember max saying to wash it down with water, but I honestly think it doesn't work for me. Nuun caused worse stomach pains when training for my first CIM and even at half strength (carried my own mix) it sort of hurt but I did well that year. As for the attitude...thanks. Good luck at NYM. Maybe I'll follow you or something.

keen current State of Brew's Running is probably "that time I took a week off to think about things", or better yet "that time I went back to having a life" or even "that time I learned what it's like to Dad and run. (Apparently 10 month olds still smile when you have a bad day. They'll also cry at you when you have a good day.)"

SC literally my thought when I crossed around mile 14 or 15..."well this is going to be a long day" knowing it was a long cool down coming. It sucks for a few miles, you put your big boy pants back on and just hobby jog to the finish. I knew the 3:30 pacer was going to catch, and pass, me around mile 18 or 20.

rune trust the training. My legs didn't feel fatigued and while I finished with a 3:37 and a LONG second half they weren't bad.

bro welcome? How did you do yesterday assuming you ran Chicago?

katia  how is DC#2 (dear child, not comic book movies) cooking? The halloween decorations look pretty awesome too. If you haven't been there before I'd suggest using public transportation. $5 from the airport to a bus stop, 25 cents to transfer to a bus. It works well. Tuesday morning heading BACK to the airport was fun (for me) with the locals heading to work/home/school. The weather could suck, or be nice. The architecture tour is cool if you're into seeing tall buildings. Check out Cloud's Gate (the bean) walking back to the hotel.

ace the "bad idea" I had was is still possible, however it wouldn't be as much fun, BUT it would make things interesting. I might focus on one goal at a time.

As for the attitude, I guess it's just something I learned a while ago. I can either sit here, sad, depressed, crying about how I wasted 4.5 months of my life and I had this dream of getting my BQ in Chicago 2018 after getting a guaranteed time entry from my PR at CIM 2016 and Cinderella story the whole thing into a black hole of uselessness, OR I can move on, get over it, skip the whole part where I look back on how long I sulked over having a sh*ttyk*tty day and keep working. I've learned the "move on" part happens every time. The only thing I can attempt to control is when. Maybe I'm unique in this ability to "not cry over spilt milk" for as long as other people, but I honestly don't see how sulking changes/fixes/helps anything. I'm sure it helps and hurts relationships as well as physical activity.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3072373518

As for a race recap...

I honestly don't remember much about the race other than the start feeling WAY too fast, not being able to see the pacer (thanks dw for saying to start behind them. it helped cool me down), seeing the 2k sign wondering how I missed the first mile marker, seeing a 6:55 mile split (thanks JMac and others telling me to slow down) then feeling the stomach start to turn and realizing the heart rate was pushing 172 from the start. When the stomach never settled, the heart rate never dropped, and I went from being 20 seconds ahead of pace, according to the pace chart, to 20 seconds behind in 2 miles I kind of made peace with the fact I wouldn't be able to get my time. For every time I told myself I wouldn't quit on race day during training, I had to quit because I couldn't imagine spending another hour and a half fighting the stomach OR keeping my heart rate pinned at 175+BPM. I aimed for a strong HM PR (didn't hit the lap button to record the "official Garmin time") and started walking the beginning portions of miles. I sent DW a text saying "not good" so she wouldn't worry and she told me "do what you can. Don't hurt yourself." Around 15 or 16 (I think this is where the Blackhawks play) I just bring in a jog and realize it's a long day. I tell myself I'll finish the marathon, not the race, because I started this and the MINIMUM I could do is cross the finish line. I realized this would put me around 3:30 which I found ironic and thought of asking if I can still hang out here since I'm not a 3:20 runner. I saw the physical embodiment of this forum rip past me (3:20 pace group) and tried to hang but the heart said no. Around 23 or 24 I could feel a toe in my left foot swollen and I KNEW it wouldn't be pretty. Passed a few runners who were also walking, who passed me. Saw the lead runner on TV at a bar around Chinatown. Just kinda hung out and tried to enjoy the sights (really there are none) and neighborhoods. Took the medal, walked faster through the finish line than anyone else (irony since I was getting SMOKED in the morning to get to the security checkpoints), grabbed a 312 wheat (upset my stomach) to kill sobriety, laughed at the irony of my stomach hurting from beer, grabbed my drop bag, met up with family and walked home. I had 2 hours or so to be upset over missing a BQ. I'm sure spending it on course feeling like SHEET running sub 10:00/mi pace helped it go away. Maybe it's because I didn't have any Orange. We all know Orange makes you faster.

1. I DO think ignoring the stomach issues from a few training runs was a mistake. TOO MUCH electrolyte was mentioned. It's easy to say "I've never used Gatorade. I had stomach issues during a race with Gatorade. Gatorade was the problem" and put the blame there.
2. It's easy to say "I have to order Gatorade online" as reasons to cut out Gatorade, instead of blaming myself for using it improperly. Carrying 5 gels for a race isn't hard. Sticking to water isn't hard since every race seems to have water.
3. I do not think the training plan failed. I think I should have taken gels with me for more long runs. I went through one box of Vanilla gels during training. I would think if the training plan failed it would have been leg/muscle fatigue leading to a bad day. Even thought I only made it 13 miles at race pace which might not be the best assessment of a marathon training plan I don't believe it was a failure of the plan.
4. Every marathon has "rude" runners. While they may be 1% of the runners when you go from 1,000 runners to 40,000 runners you have 40 times as many. 
5. The whole "major marathon" thing seems to be hype. This race didn't seem much different than CIM. People line the course here just like CIM. I'm sure a large part is the roads out of your neighborhood being shut down. 
6. This is the first race I've seen DEA agents in full gear for. Also, police presence was more noticeable as the finish line was closer.
7. Garmin measured the course at 25.77 using manual splits and GPS turned off.  

Anyone ever run Eugene, or know of a Spring marathon on the west coast? I hear there is a pretty great one in Las Vegas that's mostly downhill and the runners are attractive.  I was offered a bib for CIM but I don't know if I could pull 3:05 out in December. Plus I have floors to install at the end of this month.

EDIT: I forgot to tell you Gene Simmons was on my flight from Phoenix to Chicago and Paula Radcliffe was giving out finisher medals at the finish line. I didn't see Paula and I didn't ask for a photo with Gene.