Forums >Racing>2022 Advanced Racing Thread
Resident Historian
There's some good info on nutrition and hydration here in Amby Burfoot's Run Long Run Healthy newsletter this week (this is becoming one of my favorite reads)Excerpts:
"Aim for MAX carb intake (from any source) for best enduranceA team of world class researchers has for the first time shown that it doesn’t matter where you get your carbs--drinks, gels, blocks, bars--as long as you get plenty. In fact, they recommend aiming for 100 to 120 grams per hour (400 to 480 calories). That’s really high, but also in line with other recent studies that have runners aiming to take on more fuel on the race course.""For runners, the rules of hydration are clear and basic. Drink when thirsty. Don’t worry about races and workouts up to 60 minutes; they don’t require a hydration plan. In longer events, drink steadily from the start, and limit your body weight loss to about 2 percent. Remember that foods supply about 20 percent of your daily water need. Stay healthy, and maintain your body weight from day to day."
Also some comments on "Concurrent Training" -- running and lifting.
Neil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson
Waltons ThreadLord
Excerpts: "Aim for MAX carb intake (from any source) for best enduranceA team of world class researchers has for the first time shown that it doesn’t matter where you get your carbs--drinks, gels, blocks, bars--as long as you get plenty. In fact, they recommend aiming for 100 to 120 grams per hour (400 to 480 calories). That’s really high, but also in line with other recent studies that have runners aiming to take on more fuel on the race course."
Excerpts:
"Aim for MAX carb intake (from any source) for best enduranceA team of world class researchers has for the first time shown that it doesn’t matter where you get your carbs--drinks, gels, blocks, bars--as long as you get plenty. In fact, they recommend aiming for 100 to 120 grams per hour (400 to 480 calories). That’s really high, but also in line with other recent studies that have runners aiming to take on more fuel on the race course."
Indeed, that's a lot higher than what I've been practicing. I have used Gu gels in the past and they recommend 1 gel every 45 minutes, but that comes out to 133 calories and 30 grams per hour, so by the article cited above I should be taking a gel every 15-20 minutes (if it's my only fuel), which would be 12-16 gels for a 4-hour marathon. That's a lot of gels to be carrying at the start of a race. I guess what I'm saying is that's a big change to my current practice and something I'd have to get used to (but if it works better, then I should try it).
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12
RIP Milkman
Welcome Fred! Good to see another NYC-based runner. The original Grete's they used to run at the end of September is my current 10K PR. That was a miraculous 45 degree morning. I don't think we'll be getting that in late August!
Longboat - more evidence I just need to train the gut more. Going in the opposite direction with less nutrition won't do.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Agreed. I'll be 6 weeks out from a target HM when the 10k is run, so I'm not going to risk draining myself running a 10k in hot, humid weather. More likely, I'll treat it as a supported training run.
Flavio I suspected that about heart rate as people faster and fitter than me can have their easy runs around 150 bpm.
Yeah Kofuzi had me worried when he said he needed a sub 40 10k to finish !
I'm happy for him as he's waited so long to get sub 3.
I haven't been strength training my legs, only core and upper body.
Jmac congrats on baby 2 you are halfway there
I have got a bug so my week will be low. My 24 year old came to stay as he is pretty sick. I'm hoping I don't have that but a milder version which my wife had a week ago.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Fred-I'm just sneaking under 200lb at the minute,I'd love to get closer to 190 as that will be worth plenty of time.
Had 1 of those little speed boosts that come occasionally this week where all my paces have jumped a bit for the same effort,only happens every couple of months but nice when it does.
5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39
Problem Child
Yeah, one has been much easier than I thought, but also with number 1 starting "school" in the fall plus number 2 on the way, it's going to be a lot more hectic. I'm sure I'll be back at it in a few years when things are more settled and I get the itch again. Flavio - looking forward to you being around here. I think I'm just going to call you BSF - big strong Flavio. I need all your strength tips I can get going into this next cycle as I'm looking to up the mileage into the 90s, which I've never done before.
Yeah, one has been much easier than I thought, but also with number 1 starting "school" in the fall plus number 2 on the way, it's going to be a lot more hectic. I'm sure I'll be back at it in a few years when things are more settled and I get the itch again.
Flavio - looking forward to you being around here. I think I'm just going to call you BSF - big strong Flavio. I need all your strength tips I can get going into this next cycle as I'm looking to up the mileage into the 90s, which I've never done before.
First, I love you referring to daycare as school since I do the same thing. I told myself "it's easier to call it school rather than change words in half a decade." It confuses older people who associate school as something other than a place you drop your child off for about 8 hours a day while they learn things and socialize.
Second, I would disagree with "hectic" being the word to describe life with two kids. My youngest was something like 10 months old when I race CIM last year. The biggest change I made was to find a running partner for 5am runs. I know you HATE morning runs. You'll end up doing them at night. I had a major benefit of training while working from home while kids were in school. It really doesn't take a few years to do it, unless you actively DON'T want to marathon train. We know how competitive we get when marathon training gets out. Wives do too. There is also a lot of joy in running just to run. My oldest son was really aggressive towards my wife for months while I was gone. He HATED his brother. They've grown to like each other, to a point, enough that the oldest wants to help teach the younger one to do things. 3 year age difference if it matters to you. You're going to be like 2.5 years, right?
I think the biggest difference with number two was accepting I'd done some of this stuff before so I could do it again. It's comparable to casually running 40 mile weeks while wondering how you'd run 80 mile weeks when you already feel like you don't have time to do anything.
My favorite "discussion" to have with my wife is "first born vs second born." She is a first born of 5. I'm a second born of 2. First born kids get to do everything and get all new stuff. I'm 100% Team Second Born. "Who is your favori----" "Second one."
wait....you don't cram Maurten gels in your stomach during training? DUDE! I was talking like 3 of them for 14 mile runs. One at the start, and one every 45 minutes I think. Jeeze....you're some kind of impressive and yet I would say I'm just as impressive to someone else. Yeah, just cram those $4 gels into the stomach. System overload. I think at CIM I downed like 5 "that time I broke 3 hours" with one of them being at 40k because my stomach was unhappy and I was asking it to hold on. "here. have this. It's like a snickers bar and you're getting cranky." Maybe you need to train like the slower runners you follow on strava instead of being so elite you don't need things, other than 4 gallons of water any day it is hotter than 60F (15.5C).
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Hot Weather Complainer
Congrats JMac!! I join the people surprised that you haven’t tried to work out your stomach issues by suffering in training runs. Although when I put it that way, maybe not surprised.
this single thread is going to be interested. Let’s try to not get it shut down…
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Flavio - makes sense on heart rate. One of the guys from my club is a reptile whose heart rate barely gets above 130bpm even when he's running a 5km.
RP - first born kids also get blamed for everything because they should've been the responsible one. (I would know... I learned the hard way that it's always the retaliation that gets caught). I use the budget gels in training and save the expensive Maurten ones for race day lol.
JMac - you'll be taking gels in a half in no time.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Oh and JMac, bunch of races to add please:
Aug 20: Auckland 10km Road Champs
Sep 4: NZ 10km Road Champs
Oct 1: National Road Relays
Oct 16: NZ Half Marathon Champs
Nov 6: Nelson Half Marathon
No doubt you will also be thrilled to know that all bar one of them are officially measured (I'm not sure about Nelson).
Are we adding races of all distances, or focusing on longer ones? This is what I have coming up, but feel free to edit out the shorter ones if you want.
7/4 - Firecracker 4-miler
7/16 - Italy Run 4-miler
7/18 - Run for the Pizza 5k
8/27 - Grete's Great Gallop 10k
10/9 - Best Crest Half Marathon
10/29 - Hallowed Half
11/26 - Turkey Trot 5-miler
Others to come as I get more insight on my fall schedule.
Edited to remove the races not likely to be all-out efforts (though weather could make me switch focus between the 7/16 and 7/18 races).
Are we adding races of all distances, or focusing on longer ones?
I think the whole idea was to consolidate to one thread so it has to be races of all distances.
Speed Surplus
OK, I promise I haven't been thinking about revenge marathons TOO much, but hear me out.
I only ran 20 miles of Tunnel and walked the rest. So it's not even like I really ran a whole marathon 😂
I could run this race ($75 registration). September 11th. It's about an hour from where I live. Flat and paved.
http://skagitflats.skagitrunners.org/
The main risks I see are that it starts at 8am, so if it's a hot day, I could be in some serious heat by 11am already. And that's wildfire season, so who knows what the air quality will be like.
Buuut... If I register for that and target something more like 3:10 instead of 2:59, that might give me a good shot at a solid BQ, no?
If the air or heat is bad, I just DNS and eat the $75.
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Apologies to those in the old half thread.
Chris, M44, Greater Wellington, New Zealand.
I've been running since 2021, with my first race a half in 1:45. I was very consistent training wise through to 2016, and had got my PR down to 1:26. It's stayed there since.
In 2021, I raced one half in 2021 in 1:30:08. Once 14km road race, a few cross country, plus an ultra which due to terrible weather ended up being changed to a 21km trail race (which hopefully 2022 I get to race the 43km distance).
A combination of motivation, life getting in the way, and injuries have meant my mileage has been mediocre the last few years.
I had two significant injuries in 2020, hamstring at the start of the year which kept me out a long time (and still plays up), and then Oct 2020 a running crash causing a broken elbow (healed quickly) and shoulder joint soft tissue (healed slowly) which meant very little running until this April. In 2021 I also had a few small injuries which kept me out a few weeks each time.
Upcoming races
- Xterra West Wind Trail Race, 17.6km with 880m elevation (aim 2:07:30), 26 Jun- Trentham Park Run 5km, 2 Jul- Wellington X-Country Champs, 17 Jul
- Trentham Harriers Club Road Race 7.5km, 6 Aug
- Wellington Road Champs 10km, 20 Aug
- Mangaroa Road Race, 10 Sep
- Rotorua Marathon, 17 Sep
I'll add aim times as I go along.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Race Report:
This was the Run with the Knights 5k in Westminster MD
Very nice weather, pretty much perfect in my opinion, 70 degrees, overcast, no wind.
This was an out and back course, somewhat hilly but not too bad. The first mile is mostly downhill so the last mile is mostly uphill. Kept the effort very even (which I'm finally getting better at) but the splits were not because of the nature of the course (that's my excuse).
The half/half splits were probably fairly even. Glanced at my watch briefly after the turnaround and read 9:10. With about a half mile left I started feeling winded and crappy. Usually with shorter races like 5ks, my legs hold up but I start breathing really heavily. I ended up having an ok kick but nothing to get excited about. Not sure what place I came in but I certainly didn't win this one.
Mile Splits: 5:30, 5:45, 6:04. Overall time: 17:50 (unofficial, according to my Garmin)
I'm ok with this time for now but I really want to see lower 17s/upper 16's this time next year if possible.
I might do one more short race before I start preparing for my next marathon training cycle. I'm eyeballing a marathon on 11/26 with a sub 3 goal once again.