Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018 (Read 704 times)

    Watson that was him he finished 8 secs behind you ! I would have seen you but of course we didnt know each other then. He was about 14 then but only ran about 30 kms/week. I think he ran the first 10k in about 41 mins then crashed.

    55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

    " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

    Somewhere in between is about right "      

     

    JMac11


    RIP Milkman

      Race Report - Queens 10K

       

      Well, I didn't think I would be writing this race report, but as is rule (written by me), one must be written for a PR!

       

      I had pretty low expectations during race week for this race. However, I did still prep like I normally do for a race (capped my long run at 12 miles the week before, limited my quality day to 3x1 mile cruise intervals, etc.) Low expectations were due to the course being weird with a lot of turns, the weather forecast, and my planned day at the US Open the day before the race.

       

      Anyway, at the US Open, I did walk around as much as I expected, probably something like 10 miles. I also didn't get a lot of sleep given the train was at 6:40 to get out to the course. Luckily, it wasn't too hot that day, so I wasn't wearing myself out too much. I also avoided alcohol, which I was pretty damn proud of given it's pretty much expected that you go to the US Open to walk around the golf course and have a few beers.

       

      After the race, I took the 2.5 hour train back to my mother in law's house, which is only about 2 miles from the course. My wife and I specifically told her we wanted bland food but what did she get? Spicy beef and peppers. Given it was a planned B race, I just sucked it up and ate it but really worried about the consequences the next day. Made sure to hydrate a lot as I was a bit dehydrated from lack of water during the day.

       

      I woke up race day and completed my usual pre-race routine of a bagel and some gatorade/water mix about 2 hours before the race. Dropped the kids off at the pool as expected due to the spicy peppers. Anyway, took a Lyft over to the race site and waited by the port-a-potties to keep an eye on the lines. At NYRR races, the lines can go from 0 to 10 deep in literally 5 minutes. Usually they get to a point where they're over 30 deep and you are guaranteed to stand in line for 20+ minutes, so you have to plan all your hydrating and such that you will go to the bathroom before that happens, which means the last time you'll pee is about 30 minutes before the race. Of course, had to drop the kids off AGAIN and was paranoid that this would be the first time in my life I'd have to use a port-a-john during a race, but it was too late to do anything about that.

       

      Got a little over a mile warm up in and didn't press it too hard given the temps and sun were already started to get a bit toasty. It turned out that it was 70/21 at race time with full sunshine. I got into the starting corral about 10 minutes before the race and didn't push too far to the front. I probably had about 300 people in front of me, which is exactly what I wanted, as I didn't want to push too hard at the start. I figured I wanted to go out around 6:10 pace and then see where it went from there.

       

      We had a great rendition of the national anthem and off we went!

       

      Miles 1-2: 6:08, 6:05

       

      I made sure to stay pretty conservative out the gate. As usual, I planned for a negative split if I was going to PR, but I also didn't want to blow up too early given the heat. Things were more crowded than usual as the course is very narrow, so there was a lot of weaving, but I made sure to just slow down if needed to not waste too much energy bobbing around people. First mile came in at 6:08 and I was exactly where I wanted to be pace-wise. Second mile was also pretty uneventful. The course is dead flat except for one overpass, so it helped mitigate the ridiculous amount of turns.

       

      Miles 3-4: 5:55, 5:56 (official 5K @ 18:51)

       

      At this point, I realized that I felt pretty good. I remembered back to how I felt a couple of months ago during my last 10K. At that point, I was pretty much cooked at mile 3 and was just trying to hold on for dear life for the second half of the race. That feeling was not present this weekend, which made me realize that maybe I was going to be okay. I did the math wrong for gun vs chip time at the 5K marker and thought I was over 19:00 so I thought I had not shot at a PR so I wasn't really thinking about my time, but I knew that things were going pretty well.

       

      Regarding the heat, it wasn't impacting me too badly. They had hoses spraying water at each water stop, which really helped. One thing I realized during this race, and especially during my recovery run the next day, is that it's not the heat that kills me, but the humidity. I've sort of always known this, but this race really hammered it home. I never felt like I was red lining from the heat, but that might be because the dew point was only 50/10 degrees. It just confirms something I've always thought: I'd rather run in a dry 90 degree heat than a very humid 75 degrees.

       

      Miles 5-6.2: 5:55, 5:48, 5:28 (pace for last 0.2)

       

      I've never been as happy with my pacing as I was during miles 3-5. To put up 5:55, 5:56, 5:55 is something I can be really proud of. During mile 5 though, I started noticing things getting rough. I started taking my anti-nausea pills getting ready for the inevitable sickness I would feel. The race had really separated at this point, where I was able to latch on to small groups at a time before separating. I must have passed at least 50 people at this point. During mile 6, I attached to this guy who was pushing a good pace. I kept visualizing that I was attached to a rope that he had around his waste, and he was dragging me along for the run. Yeah, maybe it's stupid, but for some reason it felt really easy to keep up with him. I did feel like he was running fast, but it didn't feel like I was working crazy hard. At one hairpin turn, I lost him though and was on my own. Those turns at 5:45 pace can be quite tricky! I noticed that I had to take them super wide, sort of like a race car, in order to not lose any speed.

       

      At the mile 6 marker, I started to get really nauseous. This to me is always the sign that I pushed myself the right amount. If I start getting sick earlier than the last couple of minutes, I've pushed myself too hard. If I don't get nauseous at all, it means it didn't push myself hard enough. I made sure to give it my all for the last 0.2.

       

      Final Time: 37:09, 23 second PR! 

       

      Super happy with the race and new PR. I was absolutely drenched at the end of the race from sweat, so the heat definitely got to me, but it didn't impact me as poorly as I thought. I think I have a sub 37 in me during a much cooler day, but that will have to wait until either the end of this year or early next year, as now it's on to marathon training. I do plan on running a 5K on July 22, but that is actually right around the hottest day of the year here in NY, so not sure about what to expect. Also, I'll be 3 weeks into marathon training, so my legs probably won't be feeling too great. But, I like running races during marathon training to assess my fitness and keep sharp. They're also a good excuse for a down week as you can mini-taper into them.

       

      I'll still be posting here during marathon training!

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

       

      JMac11


      RIP Milkman

        Rune - Thanks! And good job starting Daniels. One thing to be careful with his M pace. Almost nobody converts to his expected pace. I personally like the formula someone on the old RWOL forums came up with, which is that your marathon time should be around 2.15 times your half marathon time. For me, based on current VDOTs, that puts my marathon time 6 minutes slower than he says. He thinks I'm in 2:51 shape (I'm not), whereas the 2.15 formula puts me at 2:56, which is a much better approximation.

         

        MJ - Good to see you back running. The flip side of your statement is that it's crazy how quickly it comes back. As someone who lost about 3 months of training this winter, it came back much quicker than I expected.

         

        Steve - Thanks!

         

        Mark - Thanks again. Are we going to see a 100KM week out of you before the year is out?

         

        Waston - Thanks, and good week. When is your next race?

         

        Cfarr - Keep up the good work!

         

        Piwi - Thanks again. First, DO NOT PULL THE PIWI DISAPPEARANCE ON US. Second, am I reading this right that your son ran a 1:31 half at 14??? That's unbelievable!

         

        Me - Here's last week for completeness. I'm going to move into just easy miles for the next 2 weeks as a baby base build for the full.

         

         

        Weekly Summary
        Monday, Jun 11, 2018 thru Sunday, Jun 17, 2018

        <tfoot> </tfoot>
        Day Miles Pace Description Link
        Mon 6.0 8:01 Evening Run strava
        Tue 7.8 8:09 My easy pace keeps getting slower. I think I'm okay with that. strava
        Wed 7.2 7:52 3x1T strava
        Thu 4.8 8:14 Evening Run strava
        Sat 1.3 8:42 Warm Up strava
        Sat 6.3 5:56 Queens 10K: A 23 second miracle PR! strava
        Sun 6.0 7:39 Well, that was hot strava
          39.4 7:38    

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

         

          Thanks Jmac, nice race report - I enjoyed the read. Spicy food the night before - your mom in law really loves you Smile

           

          When is your marathon?

           

          I have had the second overuse injury after using JDs half marathon plan. I like it because I understand it by now. But I hate it because my body cannot handle it, obviously. So I was planning to use it and do 1Q session per week instead of the 2 recommended ones. But obviously slowing down the paces could work too. I havent made up my mind and am currently just trying to get back at it.

          HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)

           

          2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!

          CommanderKeen


          Cobra Commander Keen

            Mark - Congrats on moving up in the world!


            JMac - Reading your pre-race, no-hope-for-a-PR post was funny since I already saw your result on Strava! Off to read the RR.


            Rune - Saw the workout, very solid!


            James - I grew up in a very small town in which baseball was really the only sport to play, and was an outfielder. There's nothing like chasing down a fly ball! I'm sure your boy will love it.


            Watson - Good week.


            Lower-than-expected mileage this week. Wednesday night the family and I went to my parents' place as my grandparents' were having a small 60th anniversary celebration Thursday. Between staying up late chasing lightning bugs with DD 1 & 2 and star gazing (my parents live in the country and the lack of light sources nearby makes for very dark skies) I frankly wanted to sleep in rather than get up at 05:30 to go for a run. I skipped this morning, too. That needs to stop, if only because my mood can get funky if I don't run for a while.

            I did break out my hydration vest for the LR so I wouldn't have to setup a water stop for myself and do small loops or an out-and-back, which really makes me want to do an ultra. Without having to stop to refill a water bottle I felt like I could just run forever if I wanted to.

             

            Monday, Jun 11, 2018 thru Sunday, Jun 17, 2018

            <tfoot> </tfoot>
            Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
            Mon 10.1 7:47 12x 200M R, 1E in the middle 149 (76%) strava
            Tue 10.1 8:27 1 rabbit, 1 hawk, & 19 free wheeling cyclists. Where'd they come from? Are they lost? 136 (69%) strava
            Wed 10.1 7:57 Loop de loop de loop de loop... 142 (72%) strava
            Sat 15.1 8:35 Red dirt, hills, and straight lines 144 (73%) strava
              45.4 8:13

            5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

             

            Upcoming Races:

             

            OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

            Bun Run 5k - May 4

             

            Marky_Mark_17


              JMac- great RR and I like the rule that says a PR on any distance merits a RR!  Your pacing looked great, I agree that humidity makes a much bigger difference than heat.  When I ran my 5k PR, it was in probably 20C but very low humidity and although I could feel the heat, I don't think it really impacted me much over that distance.  Conversely I have run halves in 17-18C but high humidity and they have felt pretty horrible.  Anyway great finish and I'm sure it was really satisfying nailing those paces over the last 3 miles and consistently reeling others in.

               

              I'm not sure if I have a 100km week in me this year, maybe?  Not before my next goal race anyway, I've laid the platform now so will ramp up the intensity which probably also means keeping the mileage at a similar or slightly lower level.  There's a lot of racing between September and December but a few quieter patches so who knows?

               

              Keen - nice week even if it was a bit quieter by your standards!  Amazing what a difference it makes being out in the country when it comes to the night sky, I always notice it at my parents place.

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48

              Up next: Runway5, 4 May

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              runethechamp


                CK - I know that feeling can easily creep in where things kind of pile up on you and you just don’t feel like running. Happened to me last year around this time and ended up in 3 months of very sub-par training.

                 

                Piwi - Very impressive time by your kid at that age! Hope to see you keeping your good work up. I’ll do my best on the vacation photos, i don’t think you’ve seen the best ones yet!

                 

                Mark - About the photos, I realized a while ago what a stunning view I had from my parents’ house growing up and I just took it for granted and didn’t appreciate it enough. And I realized I can get great views from the Berkeley hills as well and told myself I would make sure I appreciate nice views more, and what better way of remembering them than taking pictures on my runs. And then I can share them on Strava as well.

                 

                JMac - Great race and great race report. I also had a discussion with myself regarding Jack Daniels training paces, especially m-pace. I know his suggested m-pace is too fast at the moment for me, but all the other paces are well within my comfort zone based on my HM time from February. So I decided to just go for it last week and if it felt too hard I could dial it back. And the m-pace I ran at is at the optimistic side of my goal time in October (3:15, 7:25 pace) and if my body adapts to it I might go for that finishing time. I also know where my HR should be on these efforts so as the plan progresses I should be able to tell where I stand. I was actually positively surprised how close my HR was to the goal last week so maybe all this increased mileage is helping more than I was hoping for.

                 

                I’m still running treadmill miles in Mexico and I just realized today that my Garmin underestimates my pace a lot more when I run in my Adidas Boston 6s than when I run in my Hoka Cliftons. Strange.

                5k: 20:32 (1/17)  |  HM: 1:34:37 (2/18)  |  FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)

                 

                Getting back into it

                  JMac - nice RR congrats on the PR ..impressive pace.

                  Keen - nice week.

                   

                  Fuel has been mentioned a couple of times the last few days so I thought I would toss out a couple of question concerning both day to day fueling as well as fueling on the run.

                  • day to day what type of meals does everyone eat?  I have my fair share of beer and see it mentioned a lot here but not sure if that counts as a meal  .  I have trouble finding what I would consider healthy meals that taste good.  I end up eating a lot of chicken and frankly get tired of it.
                  • what type of fuel does everyone use on long runs (also what is considered a long run that you would use fuel).  I have trouble stomaching the Gels and Gu's if fact I just can't do it.  I do make a point to run my routes that pass water fountains just to ensure I am staying hydrated  but that is about it.  Most of my long Saturday morning runs are done on just a pre run bagel and a cup of coffee.

                  PR's

                  1m  5:38 (2018)

                  5k    19:59 (2019)

                  HM  1:33:56 (2018)

                  FM  3:23:07 (2018)

                    Cfarr i dont think anything special is required for fuelling runs less than 30kms apart from a good meal the day before and keeping hydrated. I have no issues with gels and would take one or two on a long run if i was marathon training. Also good practice for race day to make sure you can stomach them.

                    I have 2 beers most days and been part of a family of 6 my wife home cooks all our meals.   Lunches are home made too. I try to limit the bad things like sauces ( mayo etc ) but still enjoy a little chocolate . Vegetables, fruit, meat without too much interference is best !

                     

                    Jmac awesome job and race report. You train smart and race smart and get great results. If i had 300 people in front of me at the start line of a 10k then I would be right at the back

                    The nausea sounds a pain. I guess most runners feel some nausea when we go faster then LT pace. I do but have never been sick.

                    My son ran another half when he was 12. It was when we first started about 1 year in. He ran 1.42 and I was at 1.35 which is still my slowest half to date.

                     

                    Rune keep the photos coming ! weird about the shoe thing. I run in Bostons too.

                     

                    Mark if only PR races merit race reports I wont be writing any 

                     

                    Keen i find if I miss my early runs it can be very difficult later in the day. It is nice to sleep in every so often though.

                     

                    Mick you know your body best. Just train carefully and get some consistent mileage under your belt even if its all slow and results and fitness will follow. The harder workouts can come later when you feel more confident of the injury risk.

                     

                    Im feeling a bit better. the throat is pretty good now and the down week last week helped alot. I had a really good 10k run last night while waiting for my 12 year old. Was just going to do my usual slow 5k uphill 5k downhill run but I had alot of energy so put in a moderate effort from the start. Ended up running the downhill 5k at 18.50 at what felt easier than tempo effort. thankyou gravity lol.

                    55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                    " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                    Somewhere in between is about right "      

                     

                    watsonc123


                      JMac - nice RR.  My next race is likely to be a half in August.

                       

                      Keen - good week.

                       

                      Mark - your moderate volume with significant intensity is working really well up to the half.  So don't chase a 100km week.

                       

                      Piwi - that half was one I was expecting 1:35.  It was pre my Garmin, so the km markers indicated 1:31, which I thought might end in a bad fade or bad course marking.  But I kept my pace, so I must have gone past your son around 200 metres to go.

                       

                      I would only take fuel for a very long run.

                      PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                       

                      40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                       

                      2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                       

                      2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                      CommanderKeen


                      Cobra Commander Keen

                        Rune - Interesting on the different Garmin paces on the treadmill between shoes. I'm guessing that your cadence is lower wearing the Adidas, leading to slower arm swing and slower estimated pace. Just a theory. I'll introduce a plug for Stryd, which has been quite accurate and consistent pace-wise for me, indoors and out.


                        Cfarr - I typically eat fewer carbs than most runners. Plenty of red meat (my parents/grandparents do some ranching, so I have access to a nearly unlimited supply of beef) in my case - protein and fats always fill me up better than carbs, which makes it easier to control hunger for me. Doctors are typically pretty surprised at my good cholesterol/BP/HR, etc. numbers given my diet, though.

                        ETA: Totally forgot about veggies. Since I started running ~3 years ago I started really liking vegetables. Before I'd certainly eat them, but didn't crave them like I do now. I think it has to be due to the increased nutritional demands running puts on my body. All in all, though, I try to stay away from processed foods and things with a bunch of sugar/sweetener in it but outside of that eat pretty much whatever I want. 
                        I typically don't take in any calories before/during any runs of 20mi/31k unless 1) it's a race, or 2) I'm specifically testing nutrition for a race. With my Daniels training plan since there are a lot of M and even T paced miles in LRs, so I'll likely use some of those faster segments during the last 6-8 weeks to practice taking calories at race pace.
                        What all gels/fuels have you tried, and what was the result? Fellrnr did a nice flow chart comparing different gels and looking at alternatives, though there may be some other options on the market now since it's a couple years old at least. http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Comparison_of_Energy_Gels


                        Piwi - Glad you're feeling better. I'm a morning runner since it's just so hard for me to fit a run in after work.


                        I got in a good T run this morning - very nice to get in a solid harder effort after all those down days. The same hawk I saw last week showed up off and on again today. This time I got in several passes within ~8ft of it.

                        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

                        Bun Run 5k - May 4

                         

                        JMac11


                        RIP Milkman

                          MJ - Marathon is November 4. The key with Daniels is to have a good base going in. Too many people try to complete his plans while also increasing mileage, which is just begging for injury. I would never do one of his half marathon plans without at least having a base of 40 mpw.

                           

                          Keen - Nothing wrong with another down week. What's your mileage YTD? I assume you're significantly over 1K.

                           

                          Rune - That's generally the case with Daniels. T, I, and R pace are perfect, but M pace is crazy. I think it really only works for sub 2:45 marathoners, and really only if you run 80+ MPW. For us normal folk, it's too fast. Try the 2.15 approach, it worked perfectly for my last marathon. Plus, it's better to run these M pace workouts too slow than too fast.

                           

                          CFarr - I think probably the most important thing I've learned in marathon training is the following: DO NOT FUEL ON YOUR LONG RUNS. Eating a bagel beforehand is all you need for any distance. You need to teach your body how to utilize fat efficiently and cutting out fuel on long runs is the best way to do it. I've gotten up to 22 miles without fuel and have been fine. I actually only take fuel on long Marathon paced runs just to train my body how to intake gels when running at that intensity. I would also say that you should try some medium long runs (12-16 miles) with zero fuel in your system, ie no bagel beforehand. Of course, this is all for marathon training. For halfs, you will not bonk and fuel discussion are effectively useless for anyone running faster than 2 hours. Just eat whatever you want beforehand that makes you comfortable.

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                           

                            JMac, thanks for the great RR and congratulation for the great PR. Great race strategy executed to perfection!

                             

                            Everybody else, I am reading and learning for now, and enjoying the ride. I will try to post more in the future, but I am not a very active blogger in general Wink But I am happy to talk with faster runners again, it means that something is back in me in terms of willingness to take risks and run faster... let's see.

                             

                            For the race tomorrow, I have no ideas on how it will go. I will do what I feel on the day (I have just learned that there might be no pacers...) and will let you know how it goes. I am back in Belfast, but I didn't sleep much in the last few days (travel to Italy was harder than I imagined).

                             

                            All the best for now Smile

                            PRs since re-started in 2013:

                            5km: 19:43 (Belfast park run Sep-16) | 10km: 40:16 (Belfast Lagan side 10K Sep-18) 

                            HM: 1:30:09 (Belfast city Half Marathon, September-18) | FM: 3:25:05 (official chip time Belfast city Marathon, May-19, marathon was 0.3/4 longer, original time 3:27:20 for 26.5/6...)

                             

                            Upcoming races:  

                            ???

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              Ocra - Good luck

                               

                              Piwi - Forgot to respond in my last post. Thanks for the kind words. I get nausea every single race, except marathons. If I didn't take these pills, I would vomit every single race I run. I come close to vomiting even with taking them. For race sizes, I came in 127th, AG of 33. However, 11K people ran it, so I'll take getting in the top 2%! Oh and also you get to write race reports for setting post 50 PRs!!

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              CommanderKeen


                              Cobra Commander Keen

                                JMac - I'm at 1,323 miles YTD, on a 2,600 mile yearly goal (largely a random number). It looks like my marathon is just less than 2 weeks after yours.


                                Marco - Good luck in the race tomorrow.

                                5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                                 

                                Upcoming Races:

                                 

                                OKC Memorial 5k - April 27

                                Bun Run 5k - May 4