L_Master's Back From Groin Injury/Get Healthy Thread (Read 4793 times)

    Gameplan: 

    Increase mileage 5-10 miles every month to get back to 40-50 per week, cross training for any additional volume

    Re-evaluate assuming a healthy return to decent mileage

    They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


    Spring- wishful thinking

      Sub 18 5K should easily equate to sub 3:00 marathon.   A sub 5 minute mile?  If you can do that but not run a sub 3 then I would venture to guess you need to find a new training plan for marathons. 

       

      That being said, shaving off 2 minutes off a 20:00 minute 5K in one year is pretty aggressive.  At least in my experience, I did not benefit from upping my mileage overnight, it took time, and the result was losing 20-30 seconds off my 5k time every 6 months or so.  Not saying this will be the case with you, some people can easily take minutes off their 5K time every year. 

       

      I would also guess from your time estimates that you are significantly faster at shorter distances, or if not, where did these goals come from?

        Sub 18 5K should easily equate to sub 3:00 marathon.   A sub 5 minute mile?  If you can do that but not run a sub 3 then I would venture to guess you need to find a new training plan for marathons. 

         

        That being said, shaving off 2 minutes off a 20:00 minute 5K in one year is pretty aggressive.  At least in my experience, I did not benefit from upping my mileage overnight, it took time, and the result was losing 20-30 seconds off my 5k time every 6 months or so.  Not saying this will be the case with you, some people can easily take minutes off their 5K time every year. 

         

        I would also guess from your time estimates that you are significantly faster at shorter distances, or if not, where did these goals come from?

         

        I'll take you through my thought process when I was thinking about these goals so we are all on the same page. 

         

        Yea, sub 18 5K should equate to sub three marathon, that said this will be my first, so I will probably be racing conservatively and additionally from what I have read 6 months really isn't anywhere near enough time to be properly prepared to race a marathon. 3:10 seems to allow room for error, because even if I get to where a 2:50-3:00 marathon is predicted it gives me some room since I won't ever have done one and won't really be ready to try to race one linearly with what would be predicted. 

         

        As for the 5K, yea two minutes is massive improvement. That said my PR came at 160, which is probably between 10-15 pounds over what my goal weight would be. I've often heard the approximation of 1% decrease in time for every 1% decrease in BF percentage and that each pounds you lose is often good for 2 seconds per mile on time saved. If thats true, losing 10 pounds from where I had my PR would put me around 19:00 5K. A minute is still a very significant improvement however my hope is that getting to some solid training volume (70-100 mpw), combined with actually doing some race specific training and speed work might be enough to accomplish this.  Which really gets into the part I have no idea on, whether or not thats a believable amount of improvement or a total fantasy.

        They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


        Spring- wishful thinking

          It really depends on the person in terms of reasonable goals.  I wouldn't necessarily count on weight loss alone to improve your race times although it probably won't hurt. I'm sure there are people on this site who have done it, but it is probably not an average by any stretch.

           

          I would recommend being cautious about going from 40 MPW to 100 MPW.  There are probably much more qualified people then me to comment on rapid mileage increases since I increased gradually about 15 MPW per year until I hit about 70 which seemed to be a pretty good mileage until recently.

           

          Aggressive goals are good most of the time.  If you are asking if your performance improvements are average goals, I would say no.  If you are asking if your goals are achievable, I would say a lot is possible given hard work, consistency, and enough talent.


          Got Hills?

            I think a sub 5 minute mile is a lot harder to achieve than sub 18:00 5K or sub 3:10 or even 3:00 marathon.  I've never done much better than 5:20 for a mile,  but I have been able to get those 5K and marathon times for a few years.  True, I only race the  mile a couple of times in a year, but  sub 5:00 remains a  distant  goal  for me.  But everyone's different - some people are better at the shorter distances.

            "Not to touch the Earth, not to see the Sun, nothing left to do but run, run, run..."


            Fat butt on couch

              You don't say what your injuries were.  "Some soreness" as you ramp up miles is not injury, it's normal.

               

              Dropping from 6+in mile to sub-5 in a year is a huge jump.  It may happen, and certainly is well within reason if you actually get to 70-100 mpw by late summer, but given your prior injury history don't you think that mileage goal is a bit ambitious?

               

              I'd make your first goal to continuously work up your mileage.  Forget about putting a target on a specific number, that may drive you to injure yourself when your body tells you to back off.  Whatever you can get to, you get to.

               

              At your age the mile may be a reasonable goal and is a good place to start.  If you can bring your mile down....which will be easier to do while you are still at low mileage vs the others...your 5K target will be a lot easier.  You'll need to work some intervals in a few months from now when you feel you are ready to go after a good mile though.

               

              The 5K goal is probably the most reasonable of all of them.  It does not require the raw speed of the mile nor the training load of the marathon.  Get your mileage up decently and that one will come down naturally.  I'd set incremental goals starting with 20min though.

               

              Personally, I have to question why you even have a marathon goal.  You are just coming back from injury and you want to jump right to a very rough distance with, frankly, not enough training history to handle it.  If you are looking for a way to get injured, this is a good way to go.  Why do you need to run a marathon this year?  I was a collegiate runner and I ran my first marathon at 22.  Sometimes I wish I'd waited another year or two.  Where's your 10K goal?  Half marathon?  Why not focus on half marathon and shorter this year, see how it goes, then run a marathon next year?  The shorter distances are more fun to race than a marathon anyways.  There is really nothing special about finishing a marathon.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

                Of all those goals you laid out, you identified the “biggest goal” as getting distance up without injury, which is good. And I agree with spaniel, for race specific goals, increments are the way to go.

                 

                10 years ago with a couple of 5ks under my belt, I tried to jump straight to a marathon, was woefully undertrained, had a horrible race experience (though good life experience), and haven’t run one since. Just got completely turned off. It actually turned me off of running consistently for the better part of 8 years.

                 

                Last March I started running again. 5k has been the goal race distance. Still trying to take it down, and goal for this year is sub 18. Determined to stick with this goal until I’ve done it or exhausted it, then step up to 10k and half-marathon.

                 

                You’re young and have the time and energy and the ambition, try to sprinkle in a little patience as well. Good luck.

                Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes

                  You don't say what your injuries were.  "Some soreness" as you ramp up miles is not injury, it's normal.

                   

                  Dropping from 6+in mile to sub-5 in a year is a huge jump.  It may happen, and certainly is well within reason if you actually get to 70-100 mpw by late summer, but given your prior injury history don't you think that mileage goal is a bit ambitious?

                   

                  I'd make your first goal to continuously work up your mileage.  Forget about putting a target on a specific number, that may drive you to injure yourself when your body tells you to back off.  Whatever you can get to, you get to.

                   

                  At your age the mile may be a reasonable goal and is a good place to start.  If you can bring your mile down....which will be easier to do while you are still at low mileage vs the others...your 5K target will be a lot easier.  You'll need to work some intervals in a few months from now when you feel you are ready to go after a good mile though.

                   

                  The 5K goal is probably the most reasonable of all of them.  It does not require the raw speed of the mile nor the training load of the marathon.  Get your mileage up decently and that one will come down naturally.  I'd set incremental goals starting with 20min though.

                   

                  Personally, I have to question why you even have a marathon goal.  You are just coming back from injury and you want to jump right to a very rough distance with, frankly, not enough training history to handle it.  If you are looking for a way to get injured, this is a good way to go.  Why do you need to run a marathon this year?  I was a collegiate runner and I ran my first marathon at 22.  Sometimes I wish I'd waited another year or two.  Where's your 10K goal?  Half marathon?  Why not focus on half marathon and shorter this year, see how it goes, then run a marathon next year?  The shorter distances are more fun to race than a marathon anyways.  There is really nothing special about finishing a marathon.

                   

                  Training is going along well so far, 4 weeks in the 40's and got over 50 this week. Most importantly so far no sign of any injuries. Definitely trying to be more proactive with the stretching and form drills as well, which I think have helped to some degree. Did a mile about a week ago and managed 6:06, with a rofltastic first lap of 79, so I am pretty sure (especially with another week of training in) that I can go under 6:00 again with a decent race and no 20 mph wind. Weight is down about ~10 pounds, down around 163 or so from 175.

                   

                  Spaniel, thanks for the advice. I agree that trying to rush to 100 mpw by the end of summer probably isn't the smartest idea given prior history, so basically I am looking to get into the sixties in the next couple months, and then if that goes well perhaps look at approaching the 70 mpw range by the end of summer if I have several good months at around 60, but more than anything just it week by week and not be overly fixated on having to hit XX mpw. As far as the marathon goes what you say makes good sense, and for the time being I have decided to not worry about it for now; the initial reason I was planning it as I have two friends that are dead set on running it and very much want me to run it with them. If everything goes exceptionally well its possible I would still run it, but just treat it as a very long training run, as both are signifcantly slower than I am.

                   

                  On a final note is there anything wrong with running a 5K every few weeks, definitely a few that I have interest in doing here in the upcoming months and they do provide an excellent fitness/progress bar

                   

                  I'd also be interested in hearing people's thoughts on Summer of Malmo, as it seems to the goto response for many over on Lets Run (which I can't decide how I feel about, on the one hand there are some fanatastic posts by some very knowledgeable and experienced runners, but there is also a ton of crap too).

                   

                  Really appreciate the feedback and advice. Thanks guys (and gals)!

                  They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                    Training coming along quite well so far, generally feeling strong and remaining injury free. Weight is down from 175 back in early April to 160 right now. Got 10, maybe 15, pounds to go before I am running lean. Average pace on the easy runs has slowed a bit, but I am not too concerned since I have been increasing miles and adjusting to doubles. Some days I feel a pretty worn out between/after runs, though I think this is likely a combination of running + being on my feet for work + caloric deficit, during the runs I almost always feel pretty darn good.

                     

                    General out look is to hit 60 miles or thereabouts this week, take a cutback week, and then stabilize around 60mpw for a month or so and see how I am feeling after that. 

                     

                    Have a 5k coming up on the 18th, so it will be interesting to see what happens there. Hope to be challenging 20 minute mark soon, but it probably won't be this race since it's been so long since I last raced and I plan on taking it out relatively easy and progressing up if I feel good since I don't really have an accurate idea of my fitness. 

                    They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                      Last two weeks have been reasonable. Put the finishing touches on a 63 mile week and blasted my previous Manitou Incline (1.02 mi, 2200' elevation gain) PR of 29:32 with a time of 25:38. Next week was a down week to recover a bit from 4 consecutive weeks of significantly higher mileage than I have done in a while. Combined with the additional of doubles was definitely feeling a bit of fatigue during the 60 mile week. I would feel pretty good during the runs, but I was very low on energy between them and quite lethargic.

                       

                      Down week went well, after about 3 days really started feeling great again, however I was quite sore from the Incline and the subsequent run down Barr Trail. Soreness passed but started building up some discomfort in the right leg, initially for the last few runs of that week felt like it was mainly in the quads, more toward the lateral side. Nonetheless, it would largely fade after the first 30 seconds or so of running and didn't get worse during the runs. The last two days of the week I ended up doing back to back tempos, one a 3 mile progessive on the mill, and the next night went out for a night run and since we were worried about storms and rain and cold went ahead and did 8 miles at marathon pace. No problems fatiguewise from that but definitely when I went for the recovery run Monday the discomfort was a notch higher and didn't really subside entirely at any point during the run.

                       

                      Decided to take a couple days break and just did some riding on the exercise bike. Came back a few days ago and the discomfort was low, but still slightly lingering at the start of each run. 9 today, so we will see how it reacts and feels tomorrow.

                       

                      I'm leaning towards it being a nerve thing since it seems to be felt at randomly places from back of the hammy almost under the buttocks, to the lateral side of the thigh, and even sometimes in the leg/calf lateral side as well. It's never severe (wouldn't even call it pain perse, like a 1 or something if I had ot rate it) and goes away when I start running, but it is noticeable the first few seconds of a run and usually when I rise from a seated position or lean down to grab something (like a golf ball out of the hole.)

                       

                      I am not too, too worried, but I just want to take it easy and try to ensure it doesn't progress.

                       

                      Weight down to around 154/155 range so I am contining to progress nicely on that front as well, however I will be incredibly thankful to be done with that hopefully here in the next 3 to 5 weeks. Getting to eat 3000 calories instead of 2000 is going to be absolutely amazing.

                       

                      First race in quite some time coming up on July 4th, so I am very much excited for that. Probably will start just a little harder than temp effort and maybe ratchet a bit up from there if I am feeling good for the last couple miles (race is 4M).

                      They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                        L_Master:

                         

                        While some things don't necessarily work well simply by mathmatics (such as "if I lose 10 pounds, I should be able to run XXX% faster..."), other things would go well by mathmatics.  So when you look at the imformation available, and using our VO2Max calculation (very similar with McMillan's), here's what I got.

                         

                        Being young, 13-seconds 100m sounds quite reasonable and promising (assuming without much training at all for sprinting).  However, unfortunately, from there on, things seem to go rather downhill.  13-second 100m should give you about 57 seconds 400m and, from there, you should expect 2:10 for 800m.  Supposed you manage 2:30 for 800, that would enable you to have 5:13 for the mile--one full minute ahead of where you are.  Granted, just getting out and blast through one mile is surely not the way to go about--seems to me, probably the biggest reason for your reoccuring injuries, whatever it may have been--, most likely, your current level is probably more like 5:45 or so.  That gives you 19:42 for 5k.

                         

                        Your weight aside, what you need is to build your aerobic base without losing your speed completely.  For that, a program such as "Summer of Malmo" is probably perfect.  You shouldn't worry too much about mileage--be it 50 or 60 or 100--just get out and do as much COMFORTABLE miles as you can.  I would certainly NOT recommend throwing some "test" runs here and there, be it one mile or some sort of trail up or down course.  Checking out to see how much faster you can run is one of the easiest ways to screw up your program and increase the chance of getting injured. 

                         

                        Looking over your previous log, you don't seem to have a good structure to your training.  You seem to throw tempo run here and there--sometimes 2 days in a row--and do some hills here and there but then drop it from your program completely and don't do it again for a while.  Right now, what you need is a lot of easy miles, especially to get your weight down.  Once a week, do some drills as well as hill exercises to keep your legs strong and supple.  At this point, i don't think it's a good idea to throw too many tempo runs--that'll only keep your total volume of running lower and increase the chance of getting hurt as well as getting frustrated if the time doesn't come down as you'd hoped. 

                         

                        As far as marathoning is concerned, I have a bit different view on it.  I think training for a marathon might give you a good build-up IF you don't worry about the time--meaning, forget about trying to achieve some bogus target time that you got out from the air on your first try.  Just increase the volume of your running and see if you can just go through one.  This young lady I coached a few years ago as an 800m runner--she came to me because she wanted to run her first marathon.  She went through a steady build-up for 5 months, slowly builking up to one 3-hour run and she finished her first marathon in 3:41 before she switched her forcus to track racing.  We had the target time but I gave it to her only after she established herself to do some long runs; we didn't get the target time first and try to squeeze herself to that--that sort of approach only lead you to disappointment; just like the approach you're doing. 

                         

                        In a way, Spaniel, and other contributers, is right.  You seem to have a decent speed.  You should take advantage of it and try to get your mile time down first.  With appropriate sharpening and coordination, I think 5-minutes is possible (not in a few weeks time, but more like a several months later or possibly next season).  With that, 18-minute 5k should be more attainable.  That, in turn, should make it easier for you to achieve 3-hour marathon.  I don't opose you try out a marathon AS LONG AS you do your homework and go in without no specific time expectation other than finishing it comfortably.  According to the calculation, 18-minute 5k would give you 2:52 marathon.  Of course, here, where "mathmatics don't apply" is all those race times being on one linear line.  I have estimated, when it comes to middle and long distance performances, where you can sort of relate to, in terms of calculation, is 3 separate distances, preferrably 2--for example, 5k and 10k but 1500 and/or half marathon might be a bit off.  If 10k and half are in good relation, then 5k could be a bit off.  Of course, full marathon can be a totally different animal.  What such calculation gives you is a good idea of what type of runner you might be--fast guy or stamina guy. 


                        A Dance with Monkeys

                          Smile


                          Fat butt on couch

                            Sounds like you have been progressing well, L_Master.  Sorry I missed a couple of your updates and questions:

                             

                            1)  periodic 5Ks -- why not?  If you find them fun they are good speedwork.  A 5K should to be so fatiguing that it trashes your training for a week or anything.  Just go run them for fun, don't taper or anything.

                             

                            2)  Stop getting advice from letsrun Wink   But yes, Summer of Malmo is not bad at all, though the author could use some personality adjustments

                             

                            It does sound like you could have a nerve issue....though when you start talking about it going further down the leg it starts to sound a bit like ITB.  Nerve issues I've just kept stretching to loosen the surrounding muscle and trained through,  ITB I've never dealt with.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              Sounds like you have been progressing well, L_Master.  Sorry I missed a couple of your updates and questions:

                               

                              1)  periodic 5Ks -- why not?  If you find them fun they are good speedwork.  A 5K should to be so fatiguing that it trashes your training for a week or anything.  Just go run them for fun, don't taper or anything.

                               

                              2)  Stop getting advice from letsrun Wink   But yes, Summer of Malmo is not bad at all, though the author could use some personality adjustments

                               

                              It does sound like you could have a nerve issue....though when you start talking about it going further down the leg it starts to sound a bit like ITB.  Nerve issues I've just kept stretching to loosen the surrounding muscle and trained through,  ITB I've never dealt with.

                               

                               

                               

                              1)Yea, for my summer races I don't have any plans to taper and won't run them suicidally hard. Especially since I am an utter racing novice (maybe raced 5-10 times total over 5 years at distances over 1 mile), I will probably just use them as a springboard for how a race will feel and to get better adapted to pacing the more intense paces as well as dealing with things like kicking/surges/etc. And, as you mentioned they have to be good for a little speed every now and again through summer training.

                               

                              2) Heh, yea. There are definitely some people there that know what they are talking about, but there are also a ton of people that either post B.S. troll crap or just stuff thats blatently wrong. Tough to sort through all the BS though sometimes. And yea, no kidding about malmo either. While he can be very helpful he sure has some issues personality wise to say the least.

                               

                              3) As far as nerve/IT stuff goes I'm just taking it as a sign to work on strengthening the core and support muscles of hips and legs, since I have terribly neglected that aspect of training. I'll have to read up about IT band and see what kind of info there is about it. Either way, it doesn't seem too serious as at worst I feel something that just touches on being uncomfortable for the first few steps of the run and then feels good the rest of the way. I'll notice it occasionally walking around, but just enough to be like a "hey, I'm here" kinda thing, nothing I would describe as close to pain or discomfort.

                               

                               

                               

                              @Nobby - As always, thank you for your time and advice, it is greatly appreciated. Agree completely that things like weight loss aren't going to be linear correlations to increases in pace, should have been clearer there.

                               

                              As far as raw speed goes, I definitely don't have 13 flat speed at the time being. The one time I did run it was 13. 4X, although that had some pretty decent wind aid (10, maybe even 15 mph). However it was run in just general trainers, not in any lightweight shoe or spikes. My guess is I might be 14 flat speed right now, hopefully will drop a little as weight comes off, who knows?

                               

                              The best I have been able to do so far for 400m is high 66s, again in trainers. Will be interesting to see what, if any, effect losing weight and more fitness + speedwork in the fall effects this time. Maybe its just a given with the 400, but I feel like I can get through 200 in around 30-31 feeling relaxed and honestly closer to the relaxtion of running as opposed to sprinting. Atfter about 250-300 the wheels come off though; and that last straightaway always seems like an eternity.

                               

                              Don't have much experience obviously so I will certainly take your advice on the not doing any test runs. I will probably do a 5k here and there during the summer though, but probably not at all out effort.

                               

                              In regards to the structure thing, I agree there too. I will say that some of these random efforts were the results of the situation surrounding the run. For instance that back to back tempo, the first one was planned, the second one was cold and threatening to rain hard so we just decided to go ahead and goal at marathon pace to get back a bit sooner and not have to be freezing cold and wet. That probably contributes to a sizeable portion of the randomness. If you think thats a poor idea, I'll make sure to avoid it.

                               

                              General structure I am looking for is one long run per week, a tempo run, and then IF I feel good during the week a track session that is something like a tempo interval effort, and a relaxed one at that, or short 150 type repeats with FULL recovery that are something like 50m accelerate, 50m near top end, 50m stride out, then complete recovery. That works well because I have a group of friends that want to run and doing something on the track allows us to all run together (they are generally much slower and or more lifting guys, so when they jump in it lets them get in "HITT" stuff that they all love)

                               

                              As far as the marathon goes, I don't really have any intention of running one in the fall anymore. Since I never really did HS XC or Track and want to get some experience at the shorter distances since I enjoy them what I am looking at is essentially acting as if I am a typical HS athlete. That is, mid August I will find a series of local 5K's and essentially make my own XC season, and probably train like you would in season, which essentially would make my summer a base building phase for fall XC training. Most likely wil be a mock track season in the spring, especially if I get near being able to challenge sub 5, through I am not sure where to go to as far as finding track meets.

                               

                              Thanks for your help and advice folks!

                               

                              EDIT: I want to add that I don't see myself as a super inury prone person. My two major injuries were largely a combination of idiot training and being retardely stubborn. First injury was me just going oh I'll jump from 20 to 55+ miles, and then when my foot is in obvious pain I'll just run another 3 miles on it till it hurts so bad that I literally jumped the last quarter mile back home on my good leg. Second injury was an achilles thing, also related to a massive mileage increase, combined with two year old shoes. Once I took a week off, replaced my shoes, and started stretching that I haven't had problems since. Obviously the occasionall aches here and there, but nothing of the sort that affected my running, and I think we all get those from time to time.

                               

                              EDIT2: Sorry its so long. Obviously I am a person that loves having all the details, and so tend to share all the details with others as well. Maybe I should include a tl;dr version as well?

                              They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


                              Fat butt on couch

                                 

                                2) Heh, yea. There are definitely some people there that know what they are talking about, but there are also a ton of people that either post B.S. troll crap or just stuff thats blatently wrong. Tough to sort through all the BS though sometimes. And yea, no kidding about malmo either. While he can be very helpful he sure has some issues personality wise to say the least.

                                 

                                 

                                General structure I am looking for is one long run per week, a tempo run, and then IF I feel good during the week a track session that is something like a tempo interval effort, and a relaxed one at that, or short 150 type repeats with FULL recovery that are something like 50m accelerate, 50m near top end, 50m stride out, then complete recovery. That works well because I have a group of friends that want to run and doing something on the track allows us to all run together (they are generally much slower and or more lifting guys, so when they jump in it lets them get in "HITT" stuff that they all love)

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Regarding letsrun, recognize that years ago there were a lot of quality, reputable people there.  Note they are not anymore.  It is a cesspool.  One in a while Renato posts but if you don't see his name there is not a lot there.

                                 

                                On schedule, this is what I did:

                                M- easiest day of week

                                T- Track intervals

                                W- easy, sometimes double

                                R- tempo, often a medium-long run with tempo

                                F- easy, sometimes double

                                Sa-easy, occasionally double, very seldom felt good enough for a fartlek or something

                                Su-long run, usually some quality in there

                                 

                                You should rarely ever do workouts back-to-back as you described earlier.  However the strides, 100m acceleration to mile-ish pace for ~30yds, can be put in most any easy run.  They don't cause a lot of fatigue...at least they shouldn't.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand