2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 387 times)

JMac11


Milkman

    Flavio - most likely the heat. I'm finding this summer that in the heat I can't even finish a 16 mile run, but in cooler weather, I'm flying in it. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground.

     

    JT - your finish in those 3x3 indicate you are definitely in PR shape. Great job!

     

    DW - I am not in the city this weekend for the vast majority of the time unfortunately, otherwise I'd pop by for a hello.

     

    Marby - tough space to be in with unknown lockdowns. We still have that here and there and it sucks training without knowing whether you will get the race in.

     

    Cal - is Boston or CIM a goal race, or you're racing them the same?

     

    Jhud - crazy week. No way I could complete Friday and Sunday in that quick of a time span. You are in great shape!

     

    Me - I'll dump my weekly off late as well, out of town all weekend for the holiday. My Vo2 max went really well on Wednesday, which will be my last for a while as I'm racing a 10K in 2 weeks. Starting to wonder whether I should find a better course for the 10K as I think there's an outside chance I can PR, but I will need things to go right (great weather, good competition, flat course). Also had a very good long run on Saturday with a nice progression to MP+10% for 8 miles or so.

     

    The only things making me nervous so far are a) my adductor injury keeps flaring up and b) I feel suspiciously good this early in the block. Usually my body is starting to get run down after a few weeks of serious marathon training, but I feel great. I'm going up miles this week and holding, so maybe that will set me back to Earth. Otherwise, I think it might be sleep: been sleeping a lot more than past cycles and not commuting takes a lot of stress off the legs.

     

    ETA: here is the course profile of my next 10K. It's definitely hilly (I'm even a little concerned with some of the downhills with how steep they are!), but I am guaranteed to run with very good runners. Should I stick with this, or try for a flat 10K where I most likely will run the race solo (ie it's basically a time trial): Cow Harbor 10K 

     

    Weekly for period: From: 08/30/2021 To 09/05/2021

    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in ft
    08/30 Recovery runs may be my favorite run these days 6.25 10.06 00:51:47 08:17 05:09 217
    08/31 Afternoon Run 10.60 17.06 01:22:04 07:45 04:49 381
    09/01 8E + 6x1000I (3:22) + 3x400R + 2E 17.06 27.45 02:07:55 07:30 04:40 486
    09/02 Afternoon Run 5.87 9.45 00:50:16 08:34 05:19 171
    09/03 Lunch Run 8.28 13.32 01:05:56 07:58 04:57 331
    09/04 Morning Run 20.54 33.05 02:30:57 07:21 04:34 315

    Total distance: 68.60mi

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

    zebano


      JMac - always opt for the race experience! That first downhill in particular looks rough but time trials just compare to having actual competition.

      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

      CalBears


        jhudak - that is really some serious and great stuff, no kidding. I would recommend to continue exactly what you are doing and now, especially now, listen very carefully to your body, do not allow it to go overboard, do not allow it to get injured - when in doubt, just dial down. Being that close to the race and in such a good shape, I would tell you - the hay is in the barn - just continue training in normal mode, do not get too excited, just make it to the race day healthy and I believe, with very high probability (you know, weather, GI issues, not your day Smile ) you should be able to run sub 3.

         

        JMac - that course profile looks awful for a PR race. Pretty torturous profile Smile But if it's not about PR, I would take any race at any time at this stage. Also, just curious, what makes you think you are in a PR shape? I remember seeing you training at much faster paces than now, but again - I do not have your complete data, for example, HR data - so, I know paces are not everything.

         

         

        Cal - is Boston or CIM a goal race, or you're racing them the same?

         

        I will try to treat them both as kind of goal races - meaning, I will try to have at least couple of weeks for a taper - still didn't decide what kind of taper it's going to be - will check with my previous taper weeks for successful marathons. I do not see me running a PR marathon, so, I will just try to do my best. One of the bucket list items was to finish in top 10 AG in Boston, but I am not totally sure it's possible this year. But that still makes Boston more important for me than CIM. Boston 2022 would be a goal race for sure, but with Mikkey out, Boston 2022 will have to be replaced with 2023. Basically, what I am trying to say - I just want to be able to race this and next year and do my best Smile

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

        JMac11


        Milkman

          Cal - good question on what makes me think I'm in PR shape. I am definitely not in marathon PR shape. However, my 10K time is a bit soft compared to my marathon PR. My 2:36 would equate to a 34:01. My current 10K PR equates to a 2:40 marathon, so it's much more reasonable to go after. Based on my latest workouts, I think I'm in low 35:XX shape, so a perfect day could lead to a PR. There's a dead flat course same day, but there were only 3 guys that broke 40:00 last time they ran it so I would be out there alone for most of it.

           

          Regarding Boston, would think it's easier this year to run top 10 AG given the field size is smaller, but maybe that wouldn't feel the same for you as a normal year.

           

          Zebano - thanks for popping by! Worried about the Vaporfly on those downhills.

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

          Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

          CalBears


            Regarding Boston, would think it's easier this year to run top 10 AG given the field size is smaller, but maybe that wouldn't feel the same for you as a normal year.

             

             

            What I meant by - "not possible this year" is that we do not know what kind of field, slow or fast, there will be this year in Boston. The field size is smaller, yes. And the 7:47 cut-off time could mean anything - it could mean there will be more faster runners or it could mean there will be more slower older runners. There was "unusual" year in 2014, when the field size was larger (due to what happened in 2013) and the field was very very fast that year. So, will see - as far as I do not have any data to analyze Smile, I will just go with what I have and see what happens. That means - some excitement and some kind of goal. In any case, just to have a chance to get in top 10 in Boston, on a regular year, you will have to run at least sub 2:55 to even have a chance - which for me would mean - running another Moose Mug marathon Smile.

            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

            JTReeves


              jhudak: Like others have said, you are on fire! Great week and awesome couple of workouts. I wish you were racing sooner, you're ready to go! Just stay healthy and keep doing what you're doing, it's working.

               

              JMac: I think you can guess my advice for the 10k; go with the flat course! Hills kill PR aspirations. Plus for a 10k, you shouldn't need the crowd of runners around you to pull you along as much as it benefits (mentally) in a marathon, at least in my opinion. For the flat course you won't be bothered needing to weave around other runners, you'll have a clear path. The only thing you'd need to worry about is making a wrong turn since you'll be in the lead.

              2:52:16 (2018)

              Marby


                jhud: Ditto what they said

                 

                jmac: Maybe the flat course, not for the PB chance but more for risk of aggravating the existing (adductor) or creating a new injury on the hills.  That said, I'd probably just go with the one that seems like more fun.

                10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

                flavio1980


                Intl. correspondent

                  DW - have fun at the mile!

                   

                  JT - great week, super fast tempo!

                   

                  Marby - races in November in Europe are very iffy. It’s well into covid season.

                  Nice marathon block in the long run.

                   

                  JHud - It turns out I am. I’m thinking of a 3K time trial next Tuesday. Anything longer and the recovery would mess up my training.

                  12 miles at MP, that’s a huge block!

                  PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: Rest and recover

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    Nobody has mentioned that the Cow Harbour 10K course has a net drop of 95 feet.

                     

                    Is this the point where we go off on cheater courses?

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    JTReeves


                      Nobody has mentioned that the Cow Harbour 10K course has a net drop of 95 feet.

                       

                      Is this the point where we go off on cheater courses?

                       

                      Ha ha! I did notice that but thought I'd cut JMac some slack. 

                       

                      Harbour and not Harbor? Is this related to putting weeklies in km as well as miles? 

                      2:52:16 (2018)

                      JMac11


                      Milkman

                         

                        Ha ha! I did notice that but thought I'd cut JMac some slack. 

                         

                        Harbour and not Harbor? Is this related to putting weeklies in km as well as miles? 

                         

                        She spends too much time in the sub 1:30 thread with the Kiwis.

                         

                        I took a look at the other flat course that day because I was seriously considering switching, but it has its own problem: way too many turns (Long Island 10K Map). I also think there's something to what Marby said about picking the one that's more fun. This race is historic and gets people from all around the country with a few men under 30. Ryan Hall has the course record. It's worth giving it a shot to see what it's all about. It's as classic as it gets for a USA road race

                         

                        Speaking of cheating though: for those that have run in the old VF (4%) and the Next%, I believe the Next% is more stable, correct? I feel like DW has mentioned this before. The reason I ask is that I've always raced in the 4%, but have a pair of the new Next% 2. I was saving them for a short tester workout before CIM and then race day, but I'm thinking this race but serve as a good test. I'm worried with how unstable the 4% is that those screaming downhills can be very unstable and I will have trouble in them. Was even considering switching over to the Takumi Sen given these hills but I haven't run in them in months and they work very different muscles than other shoes I've had.

                         

                        Anyway, thoughts appreciated on how stable the Next% are on downhills, especially compared to the old 4%.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Suffolk County Half (10/24)

                        flavio1980


                        Intl. correspondent

                          So we're going for cheater courses huh, I wonder what Mark thinks about it 🤔

                           

                          Cal - as usual you're right, I was going too fast Friday and Saturday.

                          It's funnyI run to spend anxiety but those days it won.

                          I'm running slower this week but should probably slow down even further.

                          PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                          Up next: Rest and recover

                          Tool to generate Strava weekly

                          CalBears


                            Just received an email from BAA - with a link to Boston tracking app - installed and it looks pretty cool - if, in addition, it will be actually working correctly, that will allow my family track me in real time (I hope other people can track me too then?). The app has a lot of info but the main thing it has a map of the course with all the check times points (every 5K) and all the aid stations are mentioned there too. I liked it. Btw, when I signed in to the app, I discovered my bib number for the marathon - it is 4153 (I think it is a pretty high bib number for 2:59:42 qualification time) - I guess I will start in 1st wave 5th corral ?

                            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                            Longboat


                            On the roads again...

                              :delurk:
                              Cal, it's a non-corraled start this year. 
                              Get to Hopkinton, hit the portapotty, warm up, and hit the road for Boston.
                              If you think you'll be crowded, get to Hopkinton earlier.

                              :relurk:

                              Neil

                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

                              CalBears


                                :delurk:
                                Cal, it's a non-corraled start this year. 
                                Get to Hopkinton, hit the portapotty, warm up, and hit the road for Boston.
                                If you think you'll be crowded, get to Hopkinton earlier.

                                :relurk:

                                 

                                Wow... Thank you for letting me know - it's a surprise - I didn't know that. I wonder what are the bus lines look like without waves and corrals... Will go find and read some guide to this year race Smile

                                 

                                Ok... Just read it - it's not exactly what you said Smile :

                                ...

                                • To further participant safety, the B.A.A. will eliminate the staging area in Hopkinton (Athletes’ Village) where athletes traditionally mingle, stretch, hydrate, and fuel prior to the race. Athletes will instead be assigned specific start times and participate in a rolling start in Hopkinton. The rolling start procedure will be directly aligned with the bus loading times in Boston and transportation to the start.

                                ...

                                 

                                I wonder if they change the race start time or it still will be 10am?

                                ...

                                Ha-ha - just checked the BAA App I just installed - it says:

                                ...

                                Race Begins:

                                Mon, Oct 11, 2021 6:00 AM

                                ...

                                 

                                Really??? That would be awesome!

                                paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile