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Vaporfly 4% faster? (Read 224 times)

    After Hermosa's issue, now i'm wondering if i should do at least 1 long run in them.

    Like Surly said, i don't want to put normal training miles on them, but it may be in my best interest.

    I was planning on doing a few 7-8 milers  then just use them for my next marathon.

     

    Based on my experience, I would suggest the long run -- maybe even with a few miles at goal race pace.

    And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

     

    Rob


    Home from Iraq 2005

      Really what we all need are PF Flyers -- they are "guaranteed" to make a kid run faster and jump higher. If it can do that for kids, imagine the boost for us middle of the pack types!!  Gotta love Madison Avenue.

      5k: -- 26:12 (12/17/2016)

      10k: 58:36 (6/14/2016)

      Half: 2:08:23 (7/4/2015)

      Longest: 15.03 (5/31/2014)

      Half Marathon Bucket List Goals: 10 of 50 states completed / 2 of 7 Continents completed.

       

        Once in a while Jester is correct; energy cannot be created out of thin air, and no passive device in a shoe will return more energy than is put into it.

         

        Haha, yes, but this is not one of those times. Returning more energy than is put into the shoe is not necessary to make it 4% faster. This is what he said:

         

        Basics physics, it's impossible for any spring to return more energy than it takes to compress it. Therefore no spring, or shoe can make anyone faster...

         

        Faulty syllogism 101.

         

        I think it's funny how the vaporfly 4% is the softest, most cushioned shoe Nike makes, and yet every shoe company is touting "responsiveness" as a key feature to being a fast shoe. ("responsive" is the word they use to describe midsoles that are as forgiving as cement)

         

        I have a pair of the 4% that I was hopeful would give me a bit extra at 24-hour. That might seem like too long for them, but Camille Herron set the 100M WR in them, and opined that they would be good for 24 hours. I do not share all her opinions, but I was willing to give them a shot.

         

        And oddly, yes, they feel very soft and cushioned, yet at the same time responsive and with midsoles that are as forgiving as cement. My right foot was fine but my left was beat to hell and I had to switch to Hokas after three hours. Felt like I had PF for maybe a week afterwards. Dammit.

         

        BUT, the vaporfly 4% probably won't help mid-pack runners much. It's designed and tuned for elite gait and cadence, and unless you're running under 2:18 there might not be much difference for you than your regular marathon shoes.

         

        Not sure I agree with this. I think they simply have greater energy return than standard shoes, and that offers somewhat of an improvement for everyone.

         

        Hoka no longer makes a lightweight cushioned racing shoe, "responsive", yes, cushioned, no.

         

        No longer? I think of the Clayton as a relatively lightweight cushioned racing shoe. Much lighter than the Clifton, anyway. It's true they've now replaced it with the Mach, which is similar but alas is too narrow for me. But I think the Clayton / Clayton 2 / Mach is as close as Hoka has ever come to what you describe, so what are you referring to?

        Sunflower747


          Those that have this shoe how were you able to purchase it or try it on?  Whenever I look it is always sold out...

             

             

            No longer? I think of the Clayton as a relatively lightweight cushioned racing shoe. Much lighter than the Clifton, anyway. It's true they've now replaced it with the Mach, which is similar but alas is too narrow for me. But I think the Clayton / Clayton 2 / Mach is as close as Hoka has ever come to what you describe, so what are you referring to?

             

            Hoka makes almost exclusively "responsive" shoes now, they are no longer the pillowy cushioned shoes, regardless of stack height. Many people who have purchased every version of the Clifton have remarked on how hard the insoles have become since the first version. I noticed the same thing with the Challengers. The Bondi-6 is supposed to return to cushioning, from what reviews say.

             

            Shoes with hard midsoles are going to faster shoes, because more energy is transferred to the ground. But they will beat up your legs over time, too, and at some point beat up legs will perform worse than the hard midsole is returning as energy. For those 130lb marathoners only on their feet 2:02-2:30 it's not a problem, but for heavier people running 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 and over, the hard midsoles will take their toll.

            55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying


            Booyah!

              Those that have this shoe how were you able to purchase it or try it on?  Whenever I look it is always sold out...

               

              I was on LR forums very early in the morning last week and someone posted a link. They had sz12 in stock so I ordered right away. I am on the East coast so I may have had an advantage over west coasters who were probably still asleep. Within an hour or so all the popular sizes were gone so I got lucky I guess. You could always check EBAY but they seem to be about double the cost.

              I plan on doing my track workout tomorrow in them, and I think I will do my LR sat in them also.

              I'm 160lbs so i'll see if my weight is a detriment or advantage. Will report back.

              PR's:

              5K- 20:15 (2017)   HM- 1:39:38 (2012)    FM- 3:26:53 (2016)

                Those that have this shoe how were you able to purchase it or try it on?  Whenever I look it is always sold out...

                 

                Local running store posted that they would have them on 10/4. Headed over at lunch and bought a pair.

                And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

                 

                Rob

                  I have a pair of size 12s with about 50 miles on them I have not gotten around to putting on eBay. I decided 11.5 fits me better. They didn’t work for 24-hour but I’m keeping them for marathons.


                  Booyah!

                    Checking back to answer the question-- will these will help the average joe runner like myself.

                    I did my track workout and a 20m LR this week.

                    The faster you run the more noticeable the "spring" is.

                    Sport Jester can spout whatever science he wants to doubt the VF, but he is wrong.

                    VF 4% are no joke.

                    There is no placebo effect, my watch doesn't lie.

                    The hype is real.

                    PR's:

                    5K- 20:15 (2017)   HM- 1:39:38 (2012)    FM- 3:26:53 (2016)

                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5856879/

                       

                      About as scientific of a study as I've seen.  A mind boggling amount of data in there but according to science yes, there is legitimacy.

                      2019 Goals:

                      • 3000 Miles 
                      • Sub 1:16 HM 
                      • PR in 5K

                        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5856879/

                         

                        About as scientific of a study as I've seen.  A mind boggling amount of data in there but according to science yes, there is legitimacy.

                         

                        Looks like the standard Vaporfly, not the 4%?

                        And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

                         

                        Rob

                          I think the vaporfly is the 4%.  Otherwise it is a Zoom Fly right?

                          2019 Goals:

                          • 3000 Miles 
                          • Sub 1:16 HM 
                          • PR in 5K

                            I think the vaporfly is the 4%.  Otherwise it is a Zoom Fly right?

                             

                            Whichever shoe is pictured doesn't look like the 4% to me.

                            And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

                             

                            Rob

                              The article says it's a prototype.

                              55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

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