How hard is it to know if an elite athlete is a woman? (Read 2186 times)


under a rock

     

    I'm not sure how to determine advantage or who should make that call...but...most (all?) sports at a competitive level seem to be separated by gender.

     equestrian sports are the only sport where both sexes compete equally. So she/he could always decide to pick up an olympic equestrian sport.

     Goals: 1)Get my IT Band to cooperate 2) Run lots of trails. 3) Get my back to cooperate.

       equestrian sports are the only sport where both sexes compete equally. So she/he could always decide to pick up an olympic equestrian sport.

       

      Same with race car driving. Then again, in equestrian sports and nascar the horse and car are the "athlete". 


      under a rock

         

        Same with race car driving. Then again, in equestrian sports and nascar the horse and car are the "athlete". 

         I've competed in equestrian sports my  whole life and I can tell you the rider is an athlete. You can't be out of shape and be a successful equestrian. It takes a lot of core strength, muscle coordination, and more cardio than it appears to need.

         Goals: 1)Get my IT Band to cooperate 2) Run lots of trails. 3) Get my back to cooperate.

          Sorry about bumping an old thread, but I found a good article, worth considering.

           

          Two quotations:

           

          "Shaquille O'Neal is a veritable giant, genetically unlike almost any man we know, but we don't ask if he's human. Instead, we call him an athletic freak. A superman. Michael Phelps' torso-to-leg proportions, combined with his large paddle-like hands, make him a marine machine. Yet we call it a gift, not a laughable genetic blunder. Jockeys with 27-inch waists and small shoulders might lack the physical stature we've come to expect of men. Still, we don't call them womanly. We deem them built to race horses."

           

          "What if we assume Semenya is telling the truth? (As we should.) What if she is just an 18-year-old South African woman? What if she's not a cheater? What if she's not on the juice? What if she's just a remarkable athlete?

          There are so many things to consider in these sensitive situations. The first is that we're not asking someone to prove that his or her urine and blood are clean. We're asking someone -- today, a South African teenager -- to justify what we've been conditioned to consider male or masculine. We're asking her for an alibi for her inexplicable athleticism."


          HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

            "What if we assume Semenya is telling the truth? (As we should.) "

             

            This sounds like the writer is assuming (or pretending) that we live in some counterfactual world where athletes are asked if they do drugs, and believed when they say not, and there are no drug tests -- because, you know, we should believe them...

             

            It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


            A Dance with Monkeys

              Guilty until proven innocent.


              Hey, nice marmot!

                Interesting article.

                 

                I wonder if Semenya were from the United States, stepped on the world stage and dominated like she did, if there would be any debate.

                Ben

                 

                "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens


                Doughboy

                   

                  Either way... women are starting to outperform men in some of the longer ultras, and  Paula's 2:15 shows that it is even possible to narrow the gap in shorter events like the marathon.

                  shorter. heh.


                  HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                    Interesting article.

                     

                    I wonder if Semenya were from the United States, stepped on the world stage and dominated like she did, if there would be any debate.

                     

                    I suspect that the people who I observed saying "Hey, that's a man, or is it" or whatever, weren't looking at her uniform color, but her lack of hips and so forth...

                     

                    But maybe once people get used to seeing her, they forget about her appearance; that seems likely. So maybe it is largely because people hadn't seen her before, that they were surprised.

                    It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                      "Lack of hips"--she's got 'em, but they're narrow. Is it surprising that a world-class female runner might have narrower than normal hips? That's like being surprised that Michael Phelps has big hands. Or that Mike Tyson's got a thick neck.


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        I'm not sure I don't understand your point, Jeff.

                         

                        Are you asking why people were surprised that one competitor in a field of women looked like a man?

                         

                        I'd suppose they were surprised because (a) in other events, they saw a field of women, and they didn't see any that looked like men sneaking in, and (b) in that event, they thought it looked like a man had snuck in, or something.

                         

                         

                        But that's just me supposing; I can't tell you for sure what went through the head of other people, or why. People are strange and wondrous (to put the best spin onto it).

                         

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                          If she wore make-up and kept her hair long and more feminine, this would be a non-issue.

                           

                           

                          Thank you.

                           

                          This is one lame thread. Particularly the hermaphrodite comment.  


                          ultramarathon/triathlete

                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK-w6lDOZ5Q

                             

                            I call bullshit on this guy.  He says there are 1 in 1,600 intersexed people born in the US, which "is more intersexed people than Jews" in America.  Well, Jews make up roughly 1.7% of the US population, so his math is wrong.

                             

                            THAT solves the debate!  

                            HTFU?  Why not!

                            Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                            Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club


                            HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                               

                              Thank you.

                               

                              This is one lame thread. Particularly the hermaphrodite comment.  

                               

                              I myself thought the hermaphrodite comment was pretty relevant. I'm not sure what I think. Do you have an opinion on whether hermaphrodites should compete as women? Or should they be forced to compete as men? Or should they be allowed to choose their gender category? (The last could easily be accomplished by allowing anyone to compete as whichever gender they like, which would remove the entire issue of stigmatic testing, I suppose.)

                               

                              (The same question could naturally be asked about transsexuals, and transvestites, I guess, with perhaps varying answers, depending on which we're talking about and what your opinions are.)

                               

                              Or there could be a bunch of new gender categories - heh, doesn't sound too likely....

                               

                              Now the 100m finals, of the category "Women Born in Men's Bodies, Post-Surgery". The competitors are warming up and setting up their blocks...

                               

                               

                               

                              Ooh, here's a whole 'nother approach, inspired by triathlon age groups.

                               

                              They could have an open category, that anyone can enter, and then specific minority or disadvantaged categories, eg, "Provably Women Masters"

                               

                              I mean, I gather that is how age groups are thought of in triathletes, as kind of disadvantaged groups, for those of us who don't want to compete with all those fast people in the Open category.

                               

                              I'd rather race in the "Old as the Hills, Decrepit as the Gullies" category, where I can at least beat a few other people.

                               

                              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                                 

                                I myself thought the hermaphrodite comment was pretty relevant. I'm not sure what I think. Do you have an opinion on whether hermaphrodites should compete as women?

                                 

                                My opinion is that there is not going to be a stampede of elite-level hermaphrodites taking over women's sports any time soon.

                                 

                                Sheer madeness, I know, to go out on a limb of outrageous opinion like that. But there it is.