Forums >Gears and Wears>Major issues from switching shoes.. help!
Hi all
I'm turning to other runners for insight on this. Apologies if this message is long, but I want to make sure I explain what's happened up until now:
-I've been wearing Asics Nimbus shoes for years. When I first started running, I was in Asics but a different model. Eventually found myself in the Nimbus and it's worked for me, up until 2014.
-I have a stiff big toe issue, it acts up at times, but I've been able to run 2 marathons and many other races. The Nimbus seems to cushion my foot and i don't feel the impact as much on my toe.
-In 2014, Asics made some changes to the Nimbus, so as a result the heel of the shoe wasn't fitting me as well. My left foot is smaller than my right foot (as is the case with many of us). My heel was obviously starting to slip out slightly as a run, which was causing a wear on the fabric and eventually blisters.
-I will get the wear of the fabric after two months or less! At which point the shoes are almost garbage... however, I have adapted to this by taping my heel. At first that was working, I was using Leuko Tape and putting 2nd skin under it. With marathon training though, even the tape and the 2nd skin would wear out from all the friction of the long runs, and I would still get blisters.
-Then I resorted to buying new shoes every 2 months or so... I just sucked it up since I wanted my marathons to go well.
-I wear an orthotic, so there has been differing opinions on whether or not the orthotic is lifting my foot up in the shoe and causing this slippage on the left foot. Long story short, I need to wear the orthotics.
-Fast forward to recently. I just decided it was time to think about changing to a new brand of shoe completely. Went to a proper running store, which made a huge difference. One of the things she noted was that my LACE LOCKING was being done wrong. So maybe all along, I wasn't keeping my foot stable in the shoe. I still wanted to try switching to a new shoe.
-I ended up buying the Saucony Triumph, which is considered one of their higher cushioning shoes.. so technically it should still feel cushioned compared to my old Asics Nimbus.
-I know this wasn't a good idea, but I ran 18km in the new shoes right out of the box. I really needed to get my run in, so it was either new shoes or heel blisters (with the old shoe). My knee and achilles were aching after the run. I rested for a few days, went out and did less than 5k in the new shoes,... again major achilles and now shin tightness.
When I bought the new shoes, they told me there is a "drop" difference and that some people may need an adjustment period with that. What I didn't realize was HOW MUCH of a difference there was. My Nimbus have a 13mm drop and my new ones have an 8mm drop. The store assured me the Saucony shoe is NOT a minimal shoe, but still there must be an adjustment period.
I again ran on the weekend, 22km.. did 11km in my new shoe and then switched halfway to my old shoe. Again achilles pain and knee inflammation.
I know all these issues are from the new show but I'm wondering:
-Will I adjust to these new shoes if I take it EVEN slower to break them in
-Have I messed up my feet by running in the cushy 13mm drop shoes for all these years?
Has anyone ever experienced the same??? I called the store and they didn't seem to think this was unusual but also didn't hear too many of these issues. THey suggested cutting an insert and placing it at the back to lift up a bit so that the drop can be adjusted to slowly. I just wonder if I should have bought something with less of a drop. Maybe 10mm would have been ideal.
What I like about the Nimbus is the way it makes my foot feel protected. In other shoes I can feel the ground more and the impact into my knees and calves... I just don't know if over time I would adjust or if those shoes just aren't for me.
Thanks for any advice or insight! I'm desperate.. it's been 3 years of trying to sort this out!
Cathy
runktrun
It sounds like the change to a lower drop + the higher mileage immediately really stressed your calves and changed your form. The new shoe likely contributed to the achilles and knee pain, though you can't be sure it's solely the shoe's fault.
Don't wear the new shoes again until you are pain free. You're not going to be able to adapt to them while new stress is cumulatively more than your body can repair. Then, once you're pain free again for a few days, try a mile or two in them. Or switch to your old pair mid-run again. You may be able to adjust to them, but don't force it. You could try working on hip and core stability and eccentric heel drops to reduce stress on your achilles and knees.
Minimal is different from low drop and no drop. The Triumph is neither, maybe a bit less drop than average, but compared to the 13mm you're accustomed to, 8mm could have been too big of a change. Minimal is generally a light weight, thin sole without much support, but it may still have a significant drop. Low and no drop is based on the stack height difference from heel to toe, not the total thickness.
Brooks and Mizuno shoes still have higher heel heights/greater drops. The Brooks Glycerine has a 10mm drop. The Mizuno Rider has a 12mm drop, but also has a plastic plate so you'd want to be careful with your orthotics.
Not running for my health, but in spite of it.
-Fast forward to recently. I just decided it was time to think about changing to a new brand of shoe completely. Went to a proper running store, which made a huge difference. One of the things she noted was that my LACE LOCKING was being done wrong. So maybe all along, I wasn't keeping my foot stable in the shoe. I still wanted to try switching to a new shoe. ---- -Have I messed up my feet by running in the cushy 13mm drop shoes for all these years? ---- Thanks for any advice or insight! I'm desperate.. it's been 3 years of trying to sort this out! Cathy
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I don't think you should have to lace your shoes a certain way to get them to work. I don't think a 13mm cushy drop is terrible. Your feet got used to it so any change to a lower drop like 8mm will be significant and should be phased in. The shoe manufacturers seem to think that everyone needs to wear the latest fad (zero drop, low drop, barefoot like, minimal cushioning, maximal cushioning, and on and on). What is important is to find a shoe that doesn't give you issues and that doesn't aggravate your body and cause injury. It is not important to find a shoe that you are "supposed" to wear because it is "good for you" (e.g. zero drop). Achilles issues MAY be aggravated by lower drop shoes but not always.
Your inserts must physically fit well in the shoe and not cause you to get blisters and have other problems. If you have been trying to get a shoe to work for you for 3 years and it still doesn't do the job then it is probably time to try another brand.
Sometimes ebay has old versions of shoes available so you might be able to score some pre 2014 Asics Nimbus for comparison. I agree with kilkee's other comments.
"Shut up Legs!" Jens Voigt
Some people are more sensitive to change in drop than others. 4-5 mm all of a sudden sure sounds like the probable cause of your new pains. It would be for me.
any shoe needs a breakin period even if the new shoe is the same that you have been wearing. I run mainly in Brooks Adrenelines & switch up daily. If its a new shoe I usually start by wearing them at work for 2-3 hrs for a few days & then start wearing them on the shorter easier runs, gradually building up the time/distance. So if you switch to a completely new shoe (Nimbus-Triumph) then you need to gradually work that new shoe in even more gradually. & even more so still if there is a big difference in the offset (drop). Otherwise you will subject yourself to possible issues. 5 mm difference is significant
I disagree, I don't think this is necessary. I treat a new pair of shoes like any other, it goes straight into the rotation.
Dave
I concur. You may want to try out the new pair of the same model on a short run to make sure there are no factory defects (it happens, rarely), but the shoe should feel right for you from the get go. I worked in a specialty running store for a while and I tried to steer clients away from the idea of "breaking in" a shoe. If it doesn't feel good in the store and for a jog down the block, it's probably not the right shoe for you. Shoe should meet your needs, you should not have to adapt to a shoe. Obv there are some people for whom shoe fitting is not that simple, but most runners should be able to find comfortable and supportive shoe without having to break it in.
Although you can have problems with new versions of the same model. Unfortunately.
I agree also, although ... About ten years ago I was wearing the Nike Marathoner. I thought they were great shoes and I repeatedly bought the same pair. the first three pairs were great, I bought a fourth pair in the fall from a local running store, but the snow had come and I didn't try the shoes until the spring. I had noticed the colors of the shoes changed in the fourth pair but I assumed Nike just changed the colors. Because it was the exact same model with the exact same model number as the previous versions. i didn't think i needed to try the shoes. In the spring, when I first put them on i noticed the shoe had changed significantly. most importantly even though I bought the same size shoe and the exact same model number, this version was significantly smaller and didn't fit my feet. Because it was several months after I bought the shoe the store wouldn't let me return them. This is the reason i am still boycotting Nike products. There is no excuse for them to change a shoe significantly without indicating any indication that the shoe had changed
Now I try the shoes on as soon as I buy a repeated model to make sure they are the same. I also bring my current shoe to the store to check that they are exactly the same model. I would be very careful if you buy a Nike, I still don't trust them any more.
Absolutely! May just be my perception, but I think the past few years, major brands have made a point of drastically changing new versions of the same model in the name of "improvements!" Mizuno wave inspire was a notorious "upgrade." Lost a lot of loyal customers because it wasn't exactly the same. :P
So aggravating, for those of us that want to just keep buying the same shoe.
One of the Adrenaline updates required me to go up a half size. (Fortunately I had gone to a good LRS which tipped me off that a lot of people had that issue, and they put me in the right size.)
One of the Ravenna updates seemed to reduce the height of the toebox, and they give me a pain at the top of my foot; after 9 pairs and >4000 miles, I can't wear them anymore. (Thankful for good return policies at most places.)