Forums >Racing>The Waltons aka Advanced Half Marathon Training Thread - 2022 edition
Zebano - sounds rough dude, hope you are feeling better soon.
Since apparently I've been slipping on the weather complaining, this morning was the worst day since that horrible stretch that covered well, most of December. Warm and humid, just what you want to be running long intervals in. At least there were a lot of water fountains on my route. Of course I tell myself that it's good preparation because it could be like this on race day, but then I'm like, ugh, I really hope it's not like this on race day.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Waltons ThreadLord
Mark, piwikiwi, watsonc123, SteveChCh - Hearing you folks complain about the summer heat is actually refreshing in a way for me. I reminds me this cold will not last.
Zebanon - I hope the meds clear up the pnuemonia quickly. Thanks for the kind words on the 5k and racing with my son.
Flavio - Get well.
Jmac11, RP, ccoakley - Beer timing aside, for the 8:00am starts in NY City, I have to get up at 5:00, which is a big reason I'd prefer a 9:00 start.
Keen, Steve - Yeah, the conditions for the 10k were definitely not great for a first-timer like my son. He told me "It was fun, but I never want to do it again." Typical 15-year old.
cc4life07 - Definitely enjoy the time you run with your kid. Mine likes to run but has no interest in joining track or XC. He said he likes running just for the sake of running and adding the competitive pressure of representing a team would remove the fun for him. I'm fine with that.
cfarr - Glad to hear you have good memories running with your kid.
I got in 7 miles yesterday and again today. Usually I go to the track early in the morning for some repeats or intervals, but it was 12º feeling like 0º this morning, so I waited until lunch time, when it was almost 20º before the wind chill, and ran easy on some hills instead. The cold does wear me down a bit and the last mile today was a bit of a trudge. Also, when I'm dressed for this weather, I do feel the weight of all the extra clothes by the end of a 75-minute run.
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Clinton Country Run 15k, 4/27; Running is Back 10k, 5/12
Mother of Cats
Yup - exactly this
We were 17 degrees with a dewpoint near zero. I can handle the temperature, but air that is cold and also really dry is hard on my lungs when trying to run fast, so I stuck with the treadmill. I do find it amusing that dew points can be a concern in winter as well as summer.
Zebano - feel better!!!!
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Fred - great job for both you and your son in awful conditions. Very interesting that NYRR will allow virtual races to base your corral on. In my experience in the past, they would not accept any non-NYRR races for corrals, so interesting to see the shift.
You were right.
"Do NYRR Virtual races count toward my best pace in my NYRR dashboard?
No, only in-person NYRR races will count toward your best pace in your profile."
Mark, piwikiwi, watsonc123, SteveChCh - Hearing you folks complain about the summer heat is actually refreshing in a way for me. I reminds me this cold will not last. I got in 7 miles yesterday and again today. Usually I go to the track early in the morning for some repeats or intervals, but it was 12º feeling like 0º this morning, so I waited until lunch time, when it was almost 20º before the wind chill, and ran easy on some hills instead. The cold does wear me down a bit and the last mile today was a bit of a trudge. Also, when I'm dressed for this weather, I do feel the weight of all the extra clothes by the end of a 75-minute run.
I'm gonna keep doing it then!
There's probably only a handful of places in NZ (mostly skifields!) that ever get down to 12F, let alone 0F. We just don't get proper cold here! Personally I'm OK with running in the cold like that, having done it a few times on holidays in Canada. But I do find it harder to get my legs turning over at speed at those temperatures and windchill can suck the joy out of it VERY quickly.
Wind is not my friend.
Fred - Tbh, I'm being very cautious not to push my son into doing too much. He's got talent but I want him to enjoy it until he gets to high school. I hope he enjoys it then too but is able to upgrade the training then! He's competitive already but very introverted so it's always fun seeing another cerebral brain thinking through the races.
Temps - I've gotten the hang of running in the sub freezing temps. Now, if it goes sub-zero, well....
16 degrees last night. 20 min WU, 6 x 2 min, 1 min jog fartleks (ended up around 6:15 pace for the fartlek portions), 20 min CD. Got in about 8 miles total throughout the run and felt pretty good about it!
"Current" PRs
5K - 18:00 (4/19) | HM - 1:19:28 (4/22)
Next Race: A 5K of some sort (Goal: Sub 17:30)
Problem Child
Mark_Mark The dog walks titles are actually thoughts I have during them. One was actually a typo that came out funny (petaphysical vs psychiological) unintentionally. Other than that it's just stuff coming to mind. It's a blessing and curse as some of it is not so positive and more in the "depressing" side of life. I remind myself other people have it MUCH worse than me.
Auckland Marathon sounds like my experience with Revel Mt. Charleston in Las Vegas. Record high temp set the day before, I ended up with heat stroke and vomited in the medical tent, race had little to no shade for spectators and just a small spot for runners, and lots of people suffering. I believe it was around 30C towards the end of my 3:03 marathon. OOFFFF for those out there another 3-4 hours like my friend who finished his first that day. All downhill course too.
cc My next race is Way Too Cool 50k in California, then I think Tahoe Rim Trail 50 miler. It will be my first 50 miler and I had signed up to do it in 2020 then the race was canceled. Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. I found out yesterday the Garmin course will "self correct" itself. If you run the wrong direction on a loop then end up at the next "checkpoint" built into the run it will update to the direction you're supposed to be going from this recent checkpoint. I could have used this piece of information last saturday. I might try and test it a few more times just to make sure it works how I think (updates the course to the most recent checkpoint you've crossed) and doesn't continually tell you to go back to the point you missed.
Steve I'll post up when I buy my plane ticket, and I'll have to figure out how to get there. My wife wouldn't be shocked at all, but I feel like I make a lot of things about me, whereas she seems to miss out. She does enjoy reading though, so perhaps a few new books?
Zeb I was really thinking 50 miles doesn't seem like a lot, while also thinking how funny and rude it is to think so. I'm sure once I'm back in the office 100%, finish running every street, and life changes my 50 mile weeks will end. It might happen sooner if I start going after elevation gains in preparation for upcoming ultras.
What part of the Goggins 4x4x48 did you not find useful, and how was it not hard? Seems like just a few hours of sleep for 2 days would make running hard.
keen I second Flavio's expectation. 200 mile weeks or GTFO!
Fred I enjoy the early start on weekends so a 5am start time works for me. I also have 2 small kids at home who don't like to sleep in so 9am race time means it better be a short race. I sometimes feel bad about leaving my wife with both kids mostly because the oldest is a crapshoot. Sometimes he's easy, and sometimes he's miserable. Plus a 5am wake up call means an early bedtime. No one needs to be up past 9pm anyways.
temps well I'm upset about the waves I'm getting. last weekend was cold. Like "high of 40 cold" and today and tomorrow are 55-58.(13-14C) followed by more 40s on the weekend. Saturday is -4C overnight and 10C as a high. Welcome to the desert. Hopefully it isn't windy. 25F temperature swings between when I do my weekend run, and lunchtime. Everyone was out in winter layers for the Sunday run (24F -4C) at 8am and I ran in 45F 7.22C temps around 1:00pm.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I just have to rejoice in today's temps! it's over 32 F (0C) and that is amazing. We had five days the last two weeks where the high was 0 F (-17C) or around there and it was simply absurd.
50 not sounding like a lot is a great sign.
Re: Goggins.. 4 miles at any old pace just isn't challenging even when you're really tired and have run a ton. I think I ran a couple of 60 mile weeks in the leadup to that and I was just in great shape. I also do 20 minute powernaps really well so sneaking in a bunch of 1-3 hour naps made the whole thing far less challenging than I thought it would be. Sure my legs were beat up and it took me awhile to recover but the only goal I had was to finish and that made it too easy. Had I intentionally sleep deprived myself I'm sure it would have been a much more difficult experience, but as it was I opted to change up my final run from 4 to 12 miles to run with a buddy.
1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)
Cobra Commander Keen
Zebano - I'd run in those temps for a week! Mostly just for the novelty. I don't think we've had more than that many days below 10-15F within my memory.
Pretty good workout this morning, but I wonder if I underdid things a bit. I suppose that's better than knowing for certain I went too hard, especially this early in a cycle.
DWave - I found a few episodes of Zoltar's show on podcastic(?) and listened to those throughout. Pretty decent workout music, I must say.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Zebano - Yeah, 32º is a nice respite. How are the lungs doing?
RP - Like you, I don't mind getting up at 5:00 to go out and running; yet somehow I don't like getting up at 5:00 to travel for an 8:00 race start.
cc4 - I agree on not pushing our kids. Since my son is not on a HS team, his age group is usually pretty small in many races (since the other runners his age are at school meets) and he's won some AG awards, which has done good things for his confidence.
Darkwave - I never thought about the impact of dry air in winter, but you make a good point. I don't have a TM option, so all I can do is decide how hard I'm going to work my lungs in the cold.
Mark - Notwithstanding what I just said above, I'm definitely a cold weather runner. Anything above 40ºF and I feel the impact and above 50º I start getting slower, though not as much as when it hits 60º.
My running partner and I met up for our usual Thursday morning run. 8 miles with 5 at HM pace. As we did three weeks ago, we ran our usual course, but the other way around, which means the biggest hill was climbed early in the run and up a steeper gradient. Interestingly, this was harder on my RP than me and just as it was three weeks ago I was in much better shape than he was at the end of the run, whereas when we run the course in our usual direction he's always fresher than me at the end. My guess is I am better able to recover from the initial hill climb than he is and/or the climb takes less out of me than it takes out of him. Either way, we both enjoyed the run, especially as there was no wind today, making the 28º seem even warmer and more pleasant than other recent runs. We're looking forward to 9/6 next week (run in the easier direction).
Fred Could it be possible your partner takes longer to "get it in gear" for this reverse direction? I have a RP who will say he wants a slow first mile and I'll explain how the 8:00/mi average he will do just requires him to make up that 60 seconds, or more, in less miles so not dragging ass would be a better idea. I also told him to buy new shoes because his ankle hurts and I'm confident he'd tell me his shoes only have 600 miles on them and are good for another 100. Or more.
We do a 1½ mile warmup before we speed up to our goal pace. My RP lost several months to injury last summer/fall, so it's possible he's still recovering fitness and while he's able to go up the early hill fairly well, he tires later - sort of like going out too fast in a race and fading at the end, he may be paying later for using more energy on the hill. Generally, he's faster than me, but I seem to be dealing with the hills better, which is why I lean to it being a fitness level issue.
Fred - Don't forget that hill running is a skill and I'll go so far as to say that uphill and downhill running are separate skills as is technical trail running. You may just be a more efficient uphill runner.
My lungs are improving quickly but I can tell I've lost fitness (related: I also gained 5lbs over the holidays) so I need to recalibrate what normal / easy runs are. it probably puts my 5k goal next month in jeopardy but we'll see. I'm regretting joining the team game this year as my low miles clearly hurt my team. oh well, I should be able to start knocking out normal weeks by the end of the month (fingers crossed).
Keen I think I missed your workout on strava but I agree that it's always better to under-do workouts than overdo them.
I ordered "Easy Interval Method" by Klaas Lok after reading a few threads on LR. I'm a bit suspicious of the whole idea but figure with the first half of my year being triathlon centric, doing a bunch of easy workouts might be a fun way to keep things interesting.
Weather forecast for Sunday is looking a bit crap... warm and windy. The warm is not a surprise (it is summer...), the windy is due to a storm that's expected to blow through late Sunday night/Monday. The course is basically a loop around an estuary, so it'll be a tailwind at the start and a headwind at the end, although it's predicted to be SE... if it's more S and less E, it might not be too bad.
Anyways, it was never gonna be the fastest race anyway due to the course and time of year so I'm just going to enjoy being able to do what will (fingers crossed!) be my first road race in ages. Be interesting to see who shows up... sometimes these races have 1-2 people under 35 minutes for 10k... sometimes 4-5. There's a good chance Mark Boyce might run since it's basically his backyard which would make for a good battle (we ran identical times in 3000m races a week apart late last year). With Auckland Marathon next weekend, I suspect there won't be anyone super fast this time around.
Really simple plan... make the most of the tailwind for the first 3km, don't kill yourself on the big hill at km 4 and save a bit through the middle for dealing with the headwind on the way back. I'm not setting a time goal because it's not a PB course (or conditions), really just want to go out and have a good race. In this case, that means being able to stay strong through kms 8-9 which is where the potential for a blow-up is rife given the conditions.
Hot Weather Complainer
Mark - Sounds like a sensitive approach - even without the extreme lack of racing, I think a mid-January race calls for a conservative approach.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024