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Pre-marathon training plan (Read 1959 times)


Tomorrow will be worse

    Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the kind words - I'm running without a plan, just basing today on what I did yesterday and how I feel, so we'll see how that goes, so it's nice to hear that I'm not too far off. I'm mostly happy with my mileage from last week, and I think I'll hold with that a couple weeks before increasing too much

     

    It was strongly advised to take today off, and I know I should take a day off here and there while ramping up mileage, but I still feel like a slacker. I'm kinda twitchy  this afternoon, since I've gotten used to running over my lunch hour

      Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the kind words - I'm running without a plan, just basing today on what I did yesterday and how I feel, so we'll see how that goes, so it's nice to hear that I'm not too far off. I'm mostly happy with my mileage from last week, and I think I'll hold with that a couple weeks before increasing too much

       

      It was strongly advised to take today off, and I know I should take a day off here and there while ramping up mileage, but I still feel like a slacker. I'm kinda twitchy  this afternoon, since I've gotten used to running over my lunch hour

       

      Good for you for not running with a plan. Better to run with principles than a plan--though this is hard for beginning runners.

       

      I try to take every 8th day off (or so, if nothing interferes with my training.) That way you can put in a full "week" of training, then take a day to absorb it. Doing something like this helps when you want to hit a mileage goal--say 70mi per week--but also make sure you are getting recovery. You get your 70 mile week, then you take your day of rest. You could of course do 6 days on and a day off for a regular weekly schedule, but I find that the "moving" day off is kinda cool--keeps me fresh.

       

      (That feeling you have today of wanting to run is something you should try to keep alive during all of your training--it's a good thing, an indicator of proper recovery!)

        I really don't mean to promote what we've got, this on-line training program called Master Run Coach, but this really IS culmination of all that I've learnt (and, the truth is, still learning on-going) put it in this program.  This is, by NO mean, a cookie cutter program.  In fact, I believe this is THE most individualized training program available out there.  And, at this point, I guess I'm sort of gathering lots of guinea pigs!! ;o)  So far I think it has worked well for most people.  A guy from Germany had a 23-minutes PR this fall and first sub-3 along with 45-seconds PR in 10k and 6-minutes PR in the half.  This guy who had never run a marathon faster than 5:30 did 9-weeks of this program and had a 40-minutes PR.  So I know it works across the board.  TeaOlive used this quite successfully for her first marathon...

         

        The thing is; you have to think in blocks.  You have to look at each development coming one after the other, and finally putting them all together.  That's the beauty of training program.  And, ideally, it DOES take 6-month (24 weeks) if you want to do it properly.  What gets you to the finish line successfully is a sporadic run over the distance here and there to "make sure you can do it".  The only time you do that is the race.  We know all about training; there's nothing we don't know about what each workout would do for you.  The trick is to put them all in the right place in the right order so you CAN put them all together when it counts--race.  Even "regular intense workout" won't help you much if the purpose of the workout is not in sync with the demand of the goal.  You can run up and down the hill hard and you'll get exhausted and you feel you had done a great workout.  Well, what marathoning requires is the ability to take lots of poundings and it won't really do much for that.  

         

        If you have 6-months, what you need is to gradually build-up your endurance by doing lots of easy running at first--for about 10 weeks.  Then build up your leg strength by running up and down the hills; then sharpen up by doing some repeats...  And THEN finally in the final 4~6 weeks, you put them all together, do some long tempo-ish workout and start to taper.  6 months is a long time to start working on a set-weekly schedule and continue doing that, week in week out.  You need to work in blocks, building one development at a time.

         

        Now, everybody's situation is different; everybody's background is different.  And I believe our program can take care of that.  We have balanced point workouts through 4-days, 5-days, 6-days and 7-days a week program; starting point of 60-minutes long continuous run, 90-minutes and 120-minutes.  And, deepening on how many weeks you have and depending on your background of exercise, we'll give you exactly what kind of ratio you should do each phase.  It's already available; but we are changing the format completely to make it more easy to navigate.  It'll probably take a few more months to complete--we're shooting for 1/1/2012 re-launch.  But, if you're interested, I can hook you up and get you go through with it.

         

        Some may not like to workout in this structure and that's perfectly fine with me.  But if you ask ME how to set up a training program, this really IS the way to do it and this is how we figured to convey it to the public in the most effective and efficient way.  

         

         

         

        Nobby,

         

        I'd love to be a guinea pig!  I'm planning on a late October marathon and will look to start training at the end of March.  Email me with more info...

        Goals for 2013: sub 18 5K; stay healthy


        Tomorrow will be worse

          Good for you for not running with a plan. Better to run with principles than a plan--though this is hard for beginning runners.

           

          I try to take every 8th day off (or so, if nothing interferes with my training.) That way you can put in a full "week" of training, then take a day to absorb it. Doing something like this helps when you want to hit a mileage goal--say 70mi per week--but also make sure you are getting recovery. You get your 70 mile week, then you take your day of rest. You could of course do 6 days on and a day off for a regular weekly schedule, but I find that the "moving" day off is kinda cool--keeps me fresh.

           

          (That feeling you have today of wanting to run is something you should try to keep alive during all of your training--it's a good thing, an indicator of proper recovery!)

          Thanks - I'm not sure how long I'll go without a plan, since I'm hoping to run a Marathon in the spring, but for now it just feels more comfortable. I'm not yet sure what to reasonably expect of my body, and I've got loads of time to see how it'll respond before I decide if/what rigid plan I sign up for - at least that way whatever plan I go with, I'll know how I need to modify it for myself. Though Nobby's offer is difficult to refuse - that's an awful lot of knowledge to leave on the sidelines...

           

          the 8-day cycle hadn't really occurred to me, I'll give it some thought. My only concern with that is finding enough time to get my long run in during the week. Especially with shorter winter days coming, I'll need to be running Sat/Sun if I expect to get a 2h+ run in - much more pleasant with daylight.


          Tomorrow will be worse

            Oddly my legs feel more tired after a day off - so maybe I wasn't fully recovered? I guess not tired as much as sluggish, but after feeling pretty good yesterday it's somewhat surprising.

             

            Any thoughts on what should come after a rest day? Considering doubling up - easy 6+km at lunch(~4mi), easy 8-10km(5-6mi) after work. I haven't tried a double-day yet, curious to see how it goes.

              Oddly my legs feel more tired after a day off - so maybe I wasn't fully recovered? I guess not tired as much as sluggish, but after feeling pretty good yesterday it's somewhat surprising.

               

              Any thoughts on what should come after a rest day? Considering doubling up - easy 6+km at lunch(~4mi), easy 8-10km(5-6mi) after work. I haven't tried a double-day yet, curious to see how it goes.

               This is not a criticism (I know next to nothing about training) but I laughed when I read you talking about doubling seemingly, at least subconsciously, to "make up for" taking a day off. Joking

              Feeling sluggish after a day off is normal.


              Tomorrow will be worse

                 This is not a criticism (I know next to nothing about training) but I laughed when I read you talking about doubling seemingly, at least subconsciously, to "make up for" taking a day off. Joking

                Feeling sluggish after a day off is normal.

                 Yeah, I can see where that came from - not really my intent though, I'm thinking of it as a regular part of my training, going forward.

                 

                I'm trying to figure a less intrusive way to fit in more mileage, as I slowly jack up my time on the road, and there's been quite a lot of discussion on this site about doubling up as a general training guide. Seems to work for some people, not so much for others. But for me to fit 10mi in after work isn't going to happen without significant impact to life scheduling, nor do I have enough time during lunch most days, and before work this time of year is dark and cold, here in Canada, and getting worse by the week. Also I'm just not really a morning person...

                 

                Good to hear sluggish is normal - too bad though, since yesterday I was itching to get out. On the up side, any soreness that was in my legs is gone, so in spite of the slug-ness (sluginess? slothness...dunno) I should be good to go

                  Doubles are good. I bet you have already tried a double--ever run at night, then the next morning? Congrats, that was a double. Smile

                   

                  Frequency is a really important training variable that is often underemphasized (probably because we are all squeezing our running in around other responsibilities... )

                   

                  But yeah, a double is a great thing to do a couple times a week, not necessarily after a day off, but just as a general habit to get into. In my own training, I try to double as often as possible. It may sound like a contradiction to advocate both doubling and days off for recovery, but this is the way training works. Seems like when I am doubling my metabolism starts really rolling and recovery rates get faster, but this is anecdotal.


                  Tomorrow will be worse

                    Doubles are good. I bet you have already tried a double--ever run at night, then the next morning? Congrats, that was a double. Smile

                     

                    Frequency is a really important training variable that is often underemphasized (probably because we are all squeezing our running in around other responsibilities... )

                     

                    But yeah, a double is a great thing to do a couple times a week, not necessarily after a day off, but just as a general habit to get into. In my own training, I try to double as often as possible. It may sound like a contradiction to advocate both doubling and days off for recovery, but this is the way training works. Seems like when I am doubling my metabolism starts really rolling and recovery rates get faster, but this is anecdotal.

                    So here's an important question - how long between runs? If I run at lunch and finish at 1, then leave for home at 4, that's only 3hrs between. Is that enough, or is that a recipe to grind myself down over the long-term? Or is it something worth trying just to see how it goes?

                      So here's an important question - how long between runs? If I run at lunch and finish at 1, then leave for home at 4, that's only 3hrs between. Is that enough, or is that a recipe to grind myself down over the long-term? Or is it something worth trying just to see how it goes?

                       

                      Try and see. I'm pretty into that as a basic principle of training. Definitely beats hoping for a clear answer in message board land. 

                       

                      In the end, it's just running. I don't know if we are really born to do it, but it's something that oughta come pretty natural once you get out there regularly. You run a lot, mostly easy, sometimes fast. People will make it out like it's this dangerous thing that has to be done exactly right with heart rates and percentages and intervals and paces and thresholds and such or disaster will strike. Not to mention the right shoe. But running is pretty much impossible to screw up. Everyone knows the secrets, so much so that they are cliches: get out the door, take a long-term view, stay at it, listen to your body, pay attention to recovery, balance the hobby with the rest of your life.

                       

                      So get out the door in a way that you can sustain. Make it a habit.

                       

                      And don't forget every now and then, when the mood strikes you, to shut your eyes, turn off your big brain, and run like hell!


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        So here's an important question - how long between runs? If I run at lunch and finish at 1, then leave for home at 4, that's only 3hrs between. Is that enough, or is that a recipe to grind myself down over the long-term? Or is it something worth trying just to see how it goes?

                         

                        I'm a lot less experienced than Jeff, but for myself, my answer is "whatever is convenient."

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                           shut your eyes, turn off your big brain, and run like hell!

                           

                          I've done this in another sequence a while ago...

                           turned off my big brain

                           shut my eyes

                           ran like hell (and fell on a sidewalk groove and got a good bit of road rash)

                           

                          I wish I knew that I needed to do it in a different order....

                           

                           

                          ----

                          BTW, Jeff, a couple weeks ago, you posted something regarding doing more shorter runs (explaining the elite athletes do xx miles per day, broken down in two sessions, and remininding us that it's not the # of miles they run, but the time that they run those miles (30 - 45 minutes / outing).  Can't find it, not going to find it, but thought that might be pertinent to the dialogue of doubles and "keeping fresh" as much as possible.

                          2014 Goals:

                          #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                          #2: 365 Hours training

                           

                            I think it was here, Brian.

                             

                            Yeah, AP said it simpler--do what you can, when you can!


                            The King of Beasts

                              So here's an important question - how long between runs? If I run at lunch and finish at 1, then leave for home at 4, that's only 3hrs between. Is that enough, or is that a recipe to grind myself down over the long-term? Or is it something worth trying just to see how it goes?

                               

                              I very often finish my lunch run at 1 and then run again at 5:30-6pm, i feel okay. not sure what the ideal is, but that is what life allows so I take it.

                              "As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett

                               

                              "I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”

                                I think it was here, Brian.

                                 

                                Yeah, AP said it simpler--do what you can, when you can!

                                 

                                Jeff, nope, that link was a different thread...

                                http://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/720ffa29facf4acb8ab41b3cc46b8d85

                                 

                                The thread was titled: "trying to get mileage to 50+ per week. Are short runs options or a waste of time."

                                 

                                You wrote:

                                "Now because of the attention to high mileage as a key for marathon success (which is true--it is the key) you have new runners shooting for 50-60 miles per week at 9 minutes per mile, in singles. This is essentially 81 minutes on average per run! No run in the week shorter than an hour. This sort of schedule teaches the body to run poorly because it is not strong enough to endure and run properly.

                                 

                                Then they wonder why they are injured so often and fail to improve!"

                                2014 Goals:

                                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                                #2: 365 Hours training

                                 

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