2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 551 times)

kramrunner


    Indy 2019 w03/16
    M        00 42 25        5.22 
               00 05 15        1.0 Dart for Art
               00 31 00        3.93 wu & cd
    T        01 15 49         9.31
    W       01 05 30         8.43
    Th      00 32 16         4.12
    F        01 15 33        9.32 
    S        01 15 56       10.0      tm w/ 3wu + 3x1.5@5:52, 3x400@75s + cd, 0.5%, rec: <120s walk
    S        02 00 02        15.13  2hr LR
                                    ====
                                    66.46

     

    Reasonably happy with my week. I had a mile race on Monday that I made a complete arse of. I was planning on attacking sub5, but completely messed up the timing of my warm-up and basically arrived at the line and just had time to stop and re-start my watch. TDP was >160 and I was dripping with sweat and my HR was still elevated. Hence I ended up slowing after 400m just to get things under control, fatally undermining my effort. I was able to accelerate into the last 400 but upon seeing that sub5 wasn't on I bailed out of the pain cave and finished in 5:15. Pretty silly on my end, oh well. I opened up LT work on the weekend and was able to get 3 solid 1.5mile repeats in. Two more weeks with vo2 work and then a steady diet of LT work until marathon time.

     

    Jayluf: Nothing wrong with a down week, especially in such soupy conditions. Weather: Nice mileage for the week and nothing at all wrong with pulling the plug instead of killing yourself.

     

    Nimmals: Solid week. Top bits of faster stuff as usual.

     

    Mikkey: Don't you want to try running downhill at CIM in a pair of cheaterflys? 

     

    DW: Your dedication to cross training is very impressive. Ya, my Sayonara's have about 650 miles on them now, so they've been relegated to shorter runs and trail runs. The new wave Shadow 2 is great. They've shortened the toe a little compared to the 1, but otherwise left the shoe unchanged and it just runs great.

     

    Cinnamon: You never know, just wish it enough and Trump may well make it come true for us lot! Solid week.

     

    Madison: Great week. If you can average above 90mpw, then sub230 is yours imho. When you say 5 miles LT, is that true LT (typical 1-2 mile repeat like) or scaled back a little for a run that long (so more like tempo)?

     

    JMac: I think the issue was the run 10-12 hrs earlier. I like to do these as a sneaky way to get a bonus from easy miles. Doing 2 sets of 10 at 8pm and then 6am the next morning really beats you up but in an easier manner. I suspect this left you in a much more depleted state than you appreciated. Other than that, we're kinda screwed once humidity is high, especially if there is direct sun. I did the same 2 hrs this weekend and last, similar TDP and similar ~6lbs lost, but this week felt so much easier w/o direct sun even though I was completely drenched.

    5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17)  -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)

    2019 Goals: Assault on 2:40!         Next up: Indy Monumental (Nov 9)

    JMac11


    Benevolent Leader

       

       

      Mikkey: Don't you want to try running downhill at CIM in a pair of cheaterflys? 

       

       

      Hey watch it, some of us in this thread are planning on doing exactly that!

      5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

       

      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (10/5/19)

      madisonrunner


        When you say 5 miles LT, is that true LT (typical 1-2 mile repeat like) or scaled back a little for a run that long (so more like tempo)?

         

        kram - It was 5 miles at lactate threshold pace (per Pfitz this is 15k-HM race pace).  It was a tough workout this morning but I got it done - 5:33 pace. Pfitz says to run 20-40 consecutive minutes at lactate threshold pace, His schedule follows that as he has workouts between 5 and 7 miles.  In his book he mentions lactate threshold intervals of 1-2 miles like you say but does not include them in his highest mileage marathon plan.  Is your goal going to be sub 2:40?  If your LT intervals were at HM race pace then you aren't that far off.  5:52 pace is quite a bit faster than your HM PR so it might be a nice confidence booster to race a half sometime soon.

        Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Races:  Lakefront (10/6), CIM (12/8)

        JMac11


        Benevolent Leader

          I feel like I’m the person that always asks the training questions, so I will continue that trend, except this one is a bit different.

           

          I don’t understand how you morning runners do it. As most of you know, I’m a night runner. Sometimes, I need to run in the morning. Not only is the pace much slower because the body isn’t warmed up (not what this is about), but more importantly, I feel that a good 1 out of 5 runs need to be cut short due to bathroom breaks. How do you morning runners deal with this??? For a race, I often can get a warm up in, which allows me to get things started and hit a port-a-potty before the race. But that’s not the case with early morning runs, where you just wake up, get some water in, and throw your gear on.

           

          I thought about this more after my run was cut short this morning, but I have NEVER (and I literally mean 0 times) had to cut an evening run short due to a bathroom break.

           

          Maybe it’s because my body isn’t in tune with getting up and running early, but the risk of the “oh shit I need to get home and use the bathroom” is so high that I’m having trouble with morning runs.

           

          DW - I’m pretty sure this addressed at you 

          5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

           

          Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (10/5/19)

          jayluf


            In my experience of morning runs, it’s all about getting into a routine and rhythm. I’m usually out the door between 530-545am, but my alarm goes off at 430. I drink a full glass of water or nuun and have a cup of coffee... and then I just wait for the poop. Maybe 1 out of 20 runs I’ll need an additional bathroom break, but there’s enough public facilities / woods to dip in here that I don’t stress about it. Are there routes in NYC you can choose for morning runs that give you access to bathrooms?

             

            I feel like I’m the person that always asks the training questions, so I will continue that trend, except this one is a bit different.

             

            I don’t understand how you morning runners do it. As most of you know, I’m a night runner. Sometimes, I need to run in the morning. Not only is the pace much slower because the body isn’t warmed up (not what this is about), but more importantly, I feel that a good 1 out of 5 runs need to be cut short due to bathroom breaks. How do you morning runners deal with this??? For a race, I often can get a warm up in, which allows me to get things started and hit a port-a-potty before the race. But that’s not the case with early morning runs, where you just wake up, get some water in, and throw your gear on.

             

            I thought about this more after my run was cut short this morning, but I have NEVER (and I literally mean 0 times) had to cut an evening run short due to a bathroom break.

             

            Maybe it’s because my body isn’t in tune with getting up and running early, but the risk of the “oh shit I need to get home and use the bathroom” is so high that I’m having trouble with morning runs.

             

            DW - I’m pretty sure this addressed at you 

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              early morning runs, where you just wake up, get some water in, and throw your gear on.

               

              I'm not the best authority here, because I don't do the above.  It's at least 60 and usually 90 minutes between when I wake up and when I head out.  (and yes, starting my run between 5:30 and 6:00 am makes for a very early wake up).  That 60-90 minutes usually gives me enough time for the pipes to clear.

               

              I understand that many people have some coffee or other caffeine in the morning to move stuff along.  The other option, as jayluf noted, is to plan the route around....options.  I'm a member of Golds Gym and so I often duck into one of those if I need to; other options are Starbucks (I like to carry a few bucks cash on me so that I can leave a tip any time I borrow a Starbucks or gas station bathroom) or similar.  When desperate, I've also walked into a hotel lobby like I was a guest, and used a bathroom there (may not be an option in Manhattan, depending on their security practices).

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                JMac:  I agree with jayluf that you probably just need to get in a rhythm and your body will get used to it. As with DW, I need a fair amount of time from waking up to heading out the door. I could not just get out of bed, get dressed and head out. First is feeding the animals, next is coffee, then hanging out with the animals and checking e-mail, and taking care of business. I'm also lucky that my route is so backwoods that if I need to go during the run I can without anyone seeing me (woods on one side of the road, river on the other, no houses, no traffic).  Nice week by the way; those conditions in the northeast were horrible; I was glad not to be there for it.

                 

                Weather: Great job getting it done, even in the heat!  I was thinking of your vacation in Italy (was that last year?) while we were there. Amazing place and there just was not enough time to see everything we wanted to in 10 days. Maybe next time.

                 

                Cinnamon: Those were some serious half mile reps on the road; great job!  I find things slow down a lot on the road, even if it is paved, compared to the track, so that is very impressive.

                 

                Berlin... I was getting excited about doing it in 2020, as I will be 45 then and move out of the sub 2:45 requirement and into the sub 2:55 standard. It is likely I could coordinate it with a meeting in Germany for work. But.. then I saw Mikkey gave it a thumbs down   I still think I'd like to do it even though I do take Mikkey's reviews seriously.

                 

                Nimmals: I am out of the loop with Diamond League meets lately since I'm on vacation. I did read about Muir's 1500 with a 57 last lap.. very impressive and I am guessing you were very happy about that race!

                 

                Madison: Exciting to see you piling up the miles.

                 

                Kram: I can see the annoyance with that mile race; I arrived late to a race once and it was a mess as well. Having your warm-up being sprinting to the start line just doesn;t work. Sounds like the weather was not conducive to a fast time anyway.  Great T pace repeats to finish off the week!

                 

                I've been enjoying our vacation. Italy was amazing; I loved Florence especially and would like to go back there as 3 days was just not enough there. Lots of great food and probably too much wine and not enough running, only 43 miles last week. We did walk a ton each day so don;t think I have gained too much weight despite all the food. Now some time in Bucharest where I hope to get in some miles to close out this week.

                5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                Up next: Hartford Marathon (Oct. 12)

                Nimmals


                  I get up 30 mins before I need to run 15 min to poop and get dressed, normally nothing happens. it doesnt like being summoned on command. Then 15 mins to make coffee and drive there. Often I poop 2 miles into the woods because I can't get up and go I usually need coffee and at least 2 miles if doing a workout. if no workout i can get through 20-30 mins I may no longer have a need. as a precaution I bring wipes or tissue and when those are forgotten there is this really cool plant looks like coconut leaves it gives you a clean feeling almost like a wet wipe. I actually prefer it to dry tissues.

                   

                  I also jump into hotels as DW suggested Ive gone into Dunkin, bagel shops starbucks etc which isnt a problem in the suburbs etc. but  in Manhattan most Starbucks don't even have bathrooms usually reserved for staff. Plan your run carefully. I recently ran in CP and the Porta-john were zipped tyed. I had to go behind it to pee. Freaking Citys are disgusting. I guess they figure "no bathrooms, no homeless people?"   I would hate to be a homeless person in NYC absolutely no bathroom options. i swear its by design.


                  Elite Jogger

                     

                     

                    Berlin... I was getting excited about doing it in 2020, as I will be 45 then and move out of the sub 2:45 requirement and into the sub 2:55 standard. It is likely I could coordinate it with a meeting in Germany for work. But.. then I saw Mikkey gave it a thumbs down   I still think I'd like to do it even though I do take Mikkey's reviews seriously.

                     

                     

                    JT - Please don’t be put off by my experience 7 years ago, if you can combine it with meetings then it would be daft not to run it, especially as you’re suited to flat courses!  I think it’s better organised now with different start times for the corrals, but it was the most crowded/aggressive marathon I’ve run and nothing like London. I like the fact that it has 2:45/2:55 (proper) qualifying times which gives it a bit more cred imo.  If you and Cinnamon are thinking of running it next year then I might be tempted to give it another go. 😁.

                    5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

                    cinnamon girl


                      Hey JT! Wasn't expecting you to check in during vacation. I just googled pics of Bucharest. So freaking cool! It looks like it should be added to the list of fall marathons.

                       

                      Berlin - I'm in for 2020 if it helps to keep Mikkey from retiring  

                       

                      And Victoria - just realized it's the same day as when I had concert tickets for Korn, TOOL, Chevelle, et al. I've always wanted to see TOOL. Idk. I was wondering what if I just finished the race, got to the airport ASAP if I could still make most of the concert. This isn't reasonable thinking ..

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                        I've always wanted to see TOOL.

                         

                         

                        A brief pause to applaud your musical taste (I got to see A Perfect Circle a few times, but never Tool).

                         

                         

                          Idk. I was wondering what if I just finished the race, got to the airport ASAP if I could still make most of the concert. This isn't reasonable thinking ..

                         

                        Honestly, I would probably go for it.  Worst case, you miss the show and are out the ticket $, right?

                         

                        [I'm assuming that you'd be getting seats and not general admission - I can NOT imagine being on the floor of a Tool show the same day as a marathon.]

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                        Elite Jogger

                          A marathon and then straight to the mosh pit. Respect to Cinnamon. 🤘

                          5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            And Victoria - just realized it's the same day as when I had concert tickets for Korn, TOOL, Chevelle, et al. I've always wanted to see TOOL. Idk. I was wondering what if I just finished the race, got to the airport ASAP if I could still make most of the concert. This isn't reasonable thinking ..

                             

                            For that lineup... hell yes! Tool are amazing live and it’s a little ironic Chevelle are on the same bill because they’re kinda Tool-lite (not a criticism - I like their stuff and would love to see them live but we aren’t exactly blessed with an abundance of gigs down here in New Zealand).

                            5000m: 16:03 (Dec-18) | 5km: 16:24 (Nov-18) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) HM: 1:12:54 (Sep-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                            Last race: NZ Road Race Champs (10km), 15 Sep, 33:15 (PB)

                            Up next: NZ Road Relays, 5 Oct

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                              Bumping the thread back up with my week:

                               

                              61 miles, 18 "miles" of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming
                              M: Yoga and 8.5 "miles" of pool-running
                              T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2x1600, 2x800, 2x200 in 6:16, 6:07, 2:58, 2:50, 37, and 38 (recoveries a bit over 5 minutes after the 1600s, and 2:4x after the 800s. Full recovery for 200s.
                              W: 8 miles very easy (9:02), drills, strides, yoga, and 4 miles very easy (8:53)
                              Th: 9.5 "miles" pool-running and upper body weights/core
                              F: 12 miles, including a 4 mile (6400m) tempo in 25:47 (6:35/6:24/6:27/6:21). Followed with 6 very short steep hill sprints, leg strengthwork, and 1000 yards of recovery swimming.
                              Sa: 10 miles very easy (8:45), plus drills and four hill strides, then upper body weights/core, and DIY yoga.
                              Su: 14 miles progressive, split as first 4 averaging 8:33; next 6 averaging 7:26; last 4 averaging 6:51. Followed with leg strengthwork and 1000 yards of recovery swimming.

                               

                              First week back on the track - I was pretty happy with it - I'm in better shape than I expected, though I'm definitely more strong than sharp.  Today's long run was my first long run in a long time, and it didn't feel particularly challenging.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              kramrunner


                                Indy 2019 w04/16
                                M      01 07 12          8.25 
                                T       01 12 54          9.3 tm w/ 3wu + 6x1k@11.1mp + 2cd, 0.5%, rec: 90-120s walk
                                W      00 33 37          4.21 
                                Th     00 42 50          5.21
                                         00 41 30          5.22
                                F       -- -- --              URD  pf tight, felt rotten
                                S      01 26 34          11.5 tm w/ 3wu + 4x1.5m@5:52 + cd, 0.5%, rec: <120s walk
                                S      -- -- --                URD,  posting this counts for something... 
                                                                ====

                                                           43.69

                                 

                                OK, week. I got my 2 Q sessions in, with some solid V02 work on Tuesday and more LT work on Sat. This felt really good but given that I had a day off before, I'm not reading much into it. The rest of the week was messy, with more pf flaring requiring a day off on Fri and then needing today off after a fun wedding the day before. Just the single LT session on tap this week and then easy miles otherwise. Primarily LT work on tap from here on in, so hopefully that'll help with the pf too.


                                DW: Nice week, with 2 solid sets of quality workouts. Good to hear the track treated you well also.

                                 

                                Cinnanmon: Do it... the post 'thon cramp spasms will help if you feel the need to jump around!

                                 

                                JMac: As others have said, it's all consistent rhythm. I never need to poo until 10-12 most days as my body is completely aware that I'll be running in the morn, mostly. In all my time running, I have never needed to do a nature poo and I always laugh when I see stories of mid run stops. Of course, if one decides to eat rubbish food, well then your body will have it's vengeance.

                                 

                                JT: Great job continuing to log miles while on hols.

                                 

                                Madison: Damn. That's really impressive this far out, both that you got it done, but also that you felt good enough to schedule it and take it on this early. Very promising. I'm not really sure with myself as I still have this lingering pf hanging around that is limiting my ability to get my mileage up consistently. I've a 10 miler in 4 weeks that should put a solid marker down. Imho, to have a shot at 2:40, I'll need to be able to solid diet of 5:45 pace LT sessions over the last 6-8 weeks. I'm going to try, but am listening to my body, fingers crossed.

                                5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17)  -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)

                                2019 Goals: Assault on 2:40!         Next up: Indy Monumental (Nov 9)