Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Stotan Disciple
No, I taper a bit longer for a goal half or 10 miler - about 10 days for those. To my mind, when you taper, you're balancing three things: 1) doing enough to stay sharp and not get flat 2) resting up enough to freshen up 3) doing enough to keep the ball rolling fitness wise. For a mid-season race, you have to balance all three; for something that is truly an end-of-season goal race, I toss out #3 and just balance the first two. But, of course, the balance you strike for the first two depends on the nature of the goal race. The longer the race distance, the more I'm focused on being fresh and fully topping off my reserves and the less on being super sharp (though sharp still matters).
No, I taper a bit longer for a goal half or 10 miler - about 10 days for those.
To my mind, when you taper, you're balancing three things:
1) doing enough to stay sharp and not get flat
2) resting up enough to freshen up
3) doing enough to keep the ball rolling fitness wise.
For a mid-season race, you have to balance all three; for something that is truly an end-of-season goal race, I toss out #3 and just balance the first two. But, of course, the balance you strike for the first two depends on the nature of the goal race. The longer the race distance, the more I'm focused on being fresh and fully topping off my reserves and the less on being super sharp (though sharp still matters).
JMAC, DW said it all. 100% agree I start my taper exactly 10 Days out. Usually a Wednesday. I like that last big run 2 weeks out so 10 days is perfect for a taper. For halves I really don't taper. I have never had a goal half. I don't run enough of them and they're always a means to an end. That's why other than 2x 1:14 my half times suck. Lots of +1:20s Lots
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
RIP Milkman
Thanks guys. You both convinced me to reduce my mileage more than I otherwise would have. I keep telling myself the goal is CIM and I shouldn't cut mileage in prepping for that (I viewed my summer as a hybrid "build mileage for CIM and speed before moving to grinding workouts, but also try to improve your 5K time"), but it's a) 4 months away and b) possibly my last shot at going sub 17 given all of the 5K specific work I've done. Seems silly not to taper and really get at it.
nimmals - It's funny, I was thinking I haven't had a goal half in a long time either. It seems like people either run a bunch of shorter distances, or you run a marathon and just race half marathons in the prep.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Welcome to the 2019 Sub 3 thread! Although this thread is primarily for those training for a sub 3 hour marathon, dedicated marathoners of all abilities are welcome to contribute. Those who have been lurking... now is the time to un-lurk and get back at it! Try to not only post your week regularly, but also give feedback/encouragement to your fellow runners and participate in the discussions. If you never give feedback you're unlikely to get any. In the down time between marathon cycles, folks will sometimes disappear, but you are encouraged to stick around, even if your weeklies aren't that exciting. Please post a brief running bio, and state what your goals are for 2019. Also, please let me know what your goal races are (name, date, and goal time if you have one); this need not be limited to marathons, but should be kept to key races that are important (not a turkey trot you are jogging). I'll put together a table on this first page and keep it updated with results and new races/new posters as they pop up. For those using Strava here is a link to the weekly generator: Weekly generator Runner Race Date Goal Result Comments jayluf Myrtle Beach half 3/2 DNS Finbad Balloch to Clydebank half 3/10 <1:15:29 1:22:24 Sick + visit to Starbucks Lela NYC half 3/17 1:20 1:23:07 JMac NYC half 3/17 Sub 1:19 1:16:21 4+ minute PR jayluf Shamrock half 3/17 1:22:25 PR Darkwave Shamrock half 3/17 1:23 1:24:45 GI issues MMC Frank Nealon Boston Tune-Up 15k 3/30 53:48 54:46 madisonrunner Milwaukee 4/6 Sub 2:34 2:35:49 PR by 1:33 Darkwave Cherry Blossom 10 mile 4/7 Sub 63 63:01 PR by 0:54 JTReeves Athens Ohio 4/14 Sub 2:50 2:53:10 Lela Boston 4/15 PR 3:04:40 Weatherboy Boston 4/15 Sub 2:45 2:49:04 JMac Boston 4/15 Sub 2:45 2:44:43 PR by 1:34 Finbad Boston 4/15 Sub 2:45 2:51:20 slingrunner Boston 4/15 Sub 3:00 3:07:14 jayluf Boston 4/15 Sub 2:55 3:40:44 MMC Boston 4/15 Sub 2:50 2:58:48 PR by 1:13 nimmals Boston 4/15 2:48:04 flyrunnr Boston 4/15 2:58:50 ZZCaptainObvious Illinois 4/27 2:59:59 3:03:01 PR by 5:00 Mikkey London 4/28 Sub 2:50 2:50:43 PR by 0:37 Moose Mug Swim Eugene half 4/28 1:19:20 Darkwave Broad Street 10 mile 5/5 Sub 63 62:28 PR Cinnamon Vancouver 5/5 3:05:55 1st in AG madisonrunner Green Bay 5/19 1:13:57 PR for half (FM canc'd) jayluf Bayshore 5/25 3:20 warm/humid Darkwave Garry Bjorklund half 6/22 1:23 1:25:11 JMac Breathe for Britt 5k 6/29 17:29 17:50 DP over 70 ZZCaptainObvious Andy Nielsen 5k 7/13 <18:30 19:09 JMac Heart & Sole 5k 7/21 16:59 DNS race called due to heat JMac MADD Dash 5k 8/3 16:59 17:15 PR by 0:35 DP = 70 Darkwave Liberty Mile 8/9 place well JMac Hope Runs Here 5k 8/17 16:29 ZZCaptainObvious Madison Mini-Marathon 8/17 <1:24:37 Darkwave USATF Masters Road Mile Championships 8/23 place well ZZCaptainObvious Rockin' Brews 8/31 Sub 3:00 Lela Erie 9/8 JTReeves Erie 9/8 Sub 2:50 Darkwave Fifth Avenue Mile 9/8 Sub 5:30 jayluf Berlin 9/29 Sub 2:45 madisonrunner Lakefront 10/6 2:32 Darkwave Columbus half 10/20 TBD steve NYC 11/3 Sub 3:00 Darkwave Indy Monumental 11/9 Sub 2:55 Kram Indy Monumental 11/9 Mikkey Brighton 10k 11/17 Swim CIM 12/8 JMac CIM 12/8 Nimmals CIM 12/8 jayluf CIM 12/8 madisonrunner CIM 12/8 Sub 2:30 Jason KOBE 11/17 Sub 3:00
Welcome to the 2019 Sub 3 thread!
Although this thread is primarily for those training for a sub 3 hour marathon, dedicated marathoners of all abilities are welcome to contribute. Those who have been lurking... now is the time to un-lurk and get back at it!
Try to not only post your week regularly, but also give feedback/encouragement to your fellow runners and participate in the discussions. If you never give feedback you're unlikely to get any. In the down time between marathon cycles, folks will sometimes disappear, but you are encouraged to stick around, even if your weeklies aren't that exciting.
Please post a brief running bio, and state what your goals are for 2019. Also, please let me know what your goal races are (name, date, and goal time if you have one); this need not be limited to marathons, but should be kept to key races that are important (not a turkey trot you are jogging). I'll put together a table on this first page and keep it updated with results and new races/new posters as they pop up.
For those using Strava here is a link to the weekly generator: Weekly generator
Runner
Race
Date
Goal
Result
Comments
jayluf
Myrtle Beach half
3/2
DNS
Finbad
Balloch to Clydebank half
3/10
<1:15:29
1:22:24
Sick + visit
to Starbucks
Lela
NYC half
3/17
1:20
1:23:07
JMac
Sub 1:19
1:16:21
4+ minute PR
Shamrock half
1:22:25
PR
Darkwave
1:23
1:24:45
GI issues
MMC
Frank Nealon Boston
Tune-Up 15k
3/30
53:48
54:46
madisonrunner
Milwaukee
4/6
Sub 2:34
2:35:49
PR by 1:33
Cherry Blossom 10 mile
4/7
Sub 63
63:01
PR by 0:54
JTReeves
Athens Ohio
4/14
Sub 2:50
2:53:10
Boston
4/15
3:04:40
Weatherboy
Sub 2:45
2:49:04
2:44:43
PR by 1:34
2:51:20
slingrunner
Sub 3:00
3:07:14
Sub 2:55
3:40:44
2:58:48
PR by 1:13
nimmals
2:48:04
flyrunnr
2:58:50
ZZCaptainObvious
Illinois
4/27
2:59:59
3:03:01
PR by 5:00
Mikkey
London
4/28
PR by 0:37
Moose Mug
Swim
Eugene half
1:19:20
Broad Street 10 mile
5/5
62:28
Cinnamon
Vancouver
3:05:55
1st in AG
PR for half
(FM canc'd)
Bayshore
5/25
Garry Bjorklund half
6/22
1:25:11
PR by 0:35
DP = 70
Liberty Mile
8/9
place well
Hope Runs Here 5k
8/17
16:29
Madison Mini-Marathon
<1:24:37
USATF Masters Road Mile Championships
8/23
Rockin' Brews
8/31
Erie
9/8
Fifth Avenue Mile
Sub 5:30
Berlin
9/29
Lakefront
10/6
2:32
Columbus half
10/20
TBD
steve
NYC
11/3
Indy Monumental
11/9
Kram
Brighton 10k
11/17
CIM
12/8
Nimmals
Sub 2:30
Jason
KOBE
Welcome Jason (thit); please tell us a bit about yourself. Also if you want a race added to the table it is easier to just let me know and I will do it (that's too much to quote!).
2:52:16 (2018)
JMAC exactly they're always a prep for something bigger so I have never done a goal. Sometimes I even do workouts long warmups cool downs for mileage with the half.
JTReeves Speaking of Prep Halves please put me down for
BAA Half Sunday, October 13, 2019
Falmouth Road Race, Sunday August 18, 2019
Slammin - have you run the BAA Half before? I ran it 2 yrs ago and speaking of training through - I ran a 20 miler on the Eastern Trail the Wednesday before the race at 7:11 pace and still got 14th F and 1st Masters. It's a challenging enough course though but looks like you've been running nice mileage, so you should be good to go. Stay niggle free! You're looookin good!
My Garmin had elev gain 460 ft and same for loss. I don't know if that sounds challenging or not but it seemed like it at the time. I can't figure out how to attach my elevation map but maybe the website has it.
Oh, and speaking of TOOL - just added their new release to my ipod for my running listening enjoyment! Looking forward to the rest.
https://www.spin.com/2019/08/tool-new-song-fear-inoculum-listen-stream/
Thanks again for the advice everyone. Decided to really alter my plan for next week, cutting out about 10 miles pre-race that I was planning on running. I realized it’s silly not to just go for broke next week and take a full taper into the race. I don’t know how many more shots I’ll get at sub 17 given how much I’ve focused on speed this summer, so there’s no point in short changing myself.
All done this week. I had two really good quality sessions this week, which should leave me in good shape for my 5K. I also ran up in Vail today for my first ever run in elevation. I expected the oxygen suck to be worse, but it was completely okay except for running up hills, where I got out of breath much quicker. I imagine workouts at elevation are brutal. Swim would know best, but as JT pointed out, he’s a bit MIA right now!
Weekly SummaryMonday, Aug 05, 2019 thru Sunday, Aug 11, 2019
Nimmals: I added your races to the table. Great week by the way; saw you were well over 100 miles on the strava board.
Cinnamon: I remember your BAA half masters win; was that already 2 years ago?!! Time flies...
JMac: I couldn't believe how easily you handled a 12 mile run at >8000 feet! A friend of mine was in the mountains for vacation last summer and really struggled running; his pace was WAY slower than at sea level, and he was only at about 6000 ft. Anyway, very impressive. I hope the weather works out for your 5k, you are ready for another big PR.
Me: It was a draining week for me; I had an all week training for work which was really exhausting. Being "out of your comfort zone" takes a lot of energy. Plus it was hot and humid most of the week. Finally the weather broke this weekend and I had a good long run this morning. I was actually cold at the beginning which was pleasant for a change. Beyond the training benefit, this was a big confidence booster since I have been worrying about having lost fitness from vacation/lack of hard workouts. Only 4 weeks until Erie.
Mother of Cats
Jmac - excited to see you go all in for this one.
JTReeves - I loathe business trips - especially the ones with heavy social expectations before and after the work day (y'know - they expect you to show for "breakfast" starting at 7:30 am, and then to be enthusiastic about "drinks, dinner, more drinks" which goes until about 10-11 at night.)
Glad you had a good confidence boosting long run - the weather this weekend was really nice - great chance to get an honest impression of your fitness.
***
My week:
56 miles, 16 "miles" of pool-running, and 2000 yards of swimmingM: Yoga and 8.5 "miles" of pool-runningT: 12.5 miles, including a track workout of 1600, 2x1200, 800, 2x200 in 6:14, 4:38, 4:33, 2:59, 41 and 40. 4:40 recovery after 1600, 2;44 and 2:39 recovery after the 1200s. Full recovery for 200s. Also light leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.W: 4.5 miles very easy (9:13), drills, strides, DIY yoga and core, and 5.5 miles very easy (8:57)Th: light upperbody weights and 7.5 "miles" pool-running. F: 3 miles very easy in the morning (9:00) plus some strides. In the evening, DIY yoga, 4.5 mile warm-up and then mile race in 5:35.Sa: 10 miles very easy (9:04); upper body weights/core.Su: 15 miles - 14 progressive split as first 4 averaging 8:45 pace, next 5 averaging 7:30 pace; last 5 averaging 6:41 pace, and then 1 mile jog back to car. Followed with leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.
Finished second female master in the mixed master heat. Very frustrating race. Was in second with about 750 to go, and then (in retrospect) went too hard too soon trying to chase down the leader. Caught her and passed her, and then tied up badly. Was still going to pull off the win (I think), but tripped and fell (combo of tying up and rough pavement) all of 20 feet before the finish. She won, I finished 2nd in 5:35.
Since I came through the 1200 in about 4:03-4:04 (according to the race clocks) you can see how awful that last 400 was.
More detailed race report here.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Madison - Do you purposefully play with the number of runs you do in a week or do you just run when it fits in to your schedule?
MMC - I run to and from work so the doubles M-F are fitting my schedule. I follow Pfitz's marathon training plan and schedule everything it calls for during my runs to/from work. There are a few days/week where Pfitz does not call for doubles so I end up with a little more mileage than the plan. I have had my entire training cycle scheduled based on Pfitz and my work schedule for quite some time. Having everything scheduled helps a lot with motivation as I never have to think about what my daily runs should be. Having no other way to get to/from work helps too. It doesn't mean I'm super rigid; things do come up. This week for example I'm unexpectedly off of work on Monday so I'm not going to double.
JT - With that long run including 10 at MP you are looking good for sub 2:50.
Me: I barely got through a 5 mile LAT on Wednesday and it left me exhausted for the next few days. But Friday night I got 9.5 hours of sleep and Sunday morning I felt great for my long run with 10 at MP. I was worried the mileage was getting to me but I think (hope) that was me adjusting to the mileage and taking another step forward.
Week 4:
M - 5.7 / 5.7
T - 15 / 5.8
W - 11.3 (w/5 @ LAT 5:34) / 5.9
R - 5.8 / 5.9
F - 14.1 / 5.8
S - 10.1 (w/ strides)
S - 18.3 (w/10 @ MP 5:49)
Total - 109.3
It's fun to read about masters competition - not something I had thought too much about until now. I turn 39 in October so CIM could be my qualifier for races when I'm 40.
Madison - great week. are you following pfitz?
darkwave - nice mileage esp over the weekend. do you do long runs w/ CAR on both sat and sun?
JT - awesome LR there yesterday. what a weekend for running huh? looking very strong ahead of eerie.
JMac - great week. enjoy running in Colorado! excited to see what you can do in 5k next week
My week: Had a solid week overall, highlighted by seeing sub4 on my strides for the first time since college. Did all my weekend miles on trails ahead of my first longish trail race this Saturday (25k). No expectations/goals other than giving a hard effort and having fun out there.
Weekly Summary Monday, Aug 05, 2019 thru Sunday, Aug 11, 2019
Cinnamon, That was a great result. And I think it helps us when we train through races. Afew years ago the world was shocked when Rupp did a workout after almost setting an AR. Emma Coburn just did a mile PR then hit same track after for a workout 6x 1k or some such. If a race is not an ultimate goal.... I'm not skipping a training sessh and as from your result it didnt seem to affect your race negatively having the long run 4 days out. Yes I ran the BAA half last year. I'll be back to defend. last year I swept the BAA races this year I've been beaten soundly in the BAA series. you never can tell when you'll have a win.
JT - Thanks for adding those races. Glad you felt better this weekend especially Sunday was amazing. well hopefully you've righted the ship as far as feelings and emotions go and can buckle it down for a great race at Erie.
Madison another stellar week. I wish I could run to work. That's awesome. Beside I carry so much useless crap I never use in my back pack.
DW - Sucks to hear about the fall but it happens in these types of races. Remember drills are an exaggeration of movement and are so important to sprinting and finishing. So at the end when you tie up go from distance runner to sprinter, i.e. use your arms to drive and exaggerate form it helps lift the knees and allows you to run faster even as you tie up.
JMAC- Nice week. BTW whats your goal race is it Hope Runs Here. I'm going to Falmouth but I may stick around and leave after if you're racing there.
Had 110 mile week two years in a row I have hundred mile weeks in August my Birthday week so I like to push the miles to show my age who is Boss. Also race a 10k I live stream the whole thing didn't think I was going to race but with good weather I was able to run a decent time did lots of surging early on playing with the leaders had fun. I would run ahead record them I was talking but geeez after 3 miles I was silent mouth was parched.
Madison - amazing how much difference sleep makes.
Occasionally, but not usually. The summer start time for both days is 7 am, and I like to sleep in a little on one of the two weekend days. Plus, I tend to run a little faster on my easy runs when I'm with the group, so I avoid for that reason. I usually do show up on Sundays for my long run, unless the long run is at Carderock. I don't like doing long runs on the towpath - it's hard on my bad ankles and sometimes triggers some plantar fasciitis - so when the official CAR long run is there (like it was this past weekend), I just do my long run separate.
Good luck on the trail race! And sub-4 pace even for a short distance is quite impressive.
Thanks! Was trying to lift my knees, but not sure how well I was doing. I like the sprinter mindset. Especially since a lot of the problem, I think, was that I was trying too hard and too tense - the sprinters know how to hurt AND stay relaxed.
Happy birthday, BTW!
On another note, not sure if you were going to do the Fifth Avenue Mile this year, but they swapped the heat times. You now go at 8:00 am. And I go at 7:45 am. Which has me ticked off since my plan was to take the 3:00 am train up that morning. But I can't do that and make a 7:45 am start time, so I'm getting a hotel. *annoyed*
JT - super impressive workout and so jealous you got to run in those conditions. I missed the boat. Those types of trips are the worst too, I've had a few this year and it's very rough trying to get up early to run.
DW - read through the race report. It's interesting you've now had more than one stumble at the finish line. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Nimmals - I'm shooting for 16:59, but the weather forecast keeps deteriorating (see below) so it's going to be very tough. Also amazing mileage, you and Madison are battling it out for king of the thread this year!
Me - well, I've now gotten pretty bummed about my upcoming race. As of a few days ago, conditions were looking pretty good for a 5K, with TDP around 130ish. Unfortunately, each day the dew point forecast has gotten worse, and now it's looking like another damn 5K with dew points at 70. I cannot believe I missed last weekend when the humidity finally broke. All 4 of my races this summer will have had dew points of 71, 76 (cancelled), 70, 70 (projected).
This all means that my 16:59 goal will be tough given I just ran a 17:15 in pretty much the exact same conditions just 10 days ago. I'm not sure if the taper is going to get me those 16 seconds, that might be too much to ask, but I'm definitely going to run this thing at 16:59 pace and blow up if I have to. Last race I eased into given the conditions, but given I've now secured the PR, it's okay to blow up going for broke
DW: Nice race report. That is tough with the fall so close to the finish. One of my favorite races to watch is Evan Jager's near sub 8 steeplechase from a few years ago. Such an incredible race, and he was going to get well under 8 min and then just barely clipped the final barrier. The second place guy shot past him to win, and he got up quickly and managed 8:00.xx. I love how all the other racers (pretty much all Kenyans) come over to console him. Such an emotional race. Sorry, I got sidetracked.... Great race by you regardless and coming through 3/4 at 4:04 you had a 5:25 or better in you without the fall.
Madison: Huge week again and great long run. I agree with JMac that you and Nimmals are the kings of mileage and speed here. I hope you both can get sub 2:30 this year.
Jayluf: Solid week and good luck on your 25k this weekend.
Nimmals: Huge week by you as well. I thought you were done for the week at 105 but then you snuck in another run Sunday later on! I wish I could run as much quality as you do. Happy Birthday by the way!
JMac: That sucks with the weather, I hope it changes course before the race. You did get faster every mile for your 17:15, so there should be more in the tank, even with lousy weather.