2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 674 times)


    Madison - Solid week. That 7 mile tempo is a tough one. Hope the tibia pain is just a random niggle. Good luck w/ the 10k today.

    Captain - Congrats on the marathon. You'll get the sub3 - August is a tough month.

    JT - Very nice week and long run. That Hartford course looks a bit less flat than eerie


    Had a strong week overall, highlighted with a speed session midweek and a 20 miler in some soupy conditions. Have a local half marathon coming up on Sunday. Temps looking pretty ideal for early September. Looking forward to racing and seeing what type of fitness I'm in. Thinking sub 82?


    Weekly Summary
    Monday, Aug 26, 2019 thru Sunday, Sep 01, 2019

    <tfoot> </tfoot>
    Day Miles Pace Description Link
    Tue 8.0 7:50 Whatever happened to Hoobastank? strava
    Wed 12.2 7:36 Workout Wednesday - 10 x 2min fast/ 2min easy strava
    Thu 10.0 7:36 McChicken > everything else strava
    Fri 5.1 8:56 First Gear Friday strava
    Sat 20.1 7:36 SLR - 20 miles... and scene 🎬 strava
    Sun 10.1 8:23 Sunday Runday strava
      65.5 7:51  

      JTR - not sure what plan you are following and if there were any workouts, but even I didn't have energy I would still try the planned workouts. Obviously doesn't mean it would be right - just what I would do. The only excuse would be an injury or suspicion of injury. But again, I am not good source even when I share my opinion because last two years I didn't follow any plan - just running easy all I did. In any case your 72 mpw is good enough for not doing anything specific I think.


      madison - wow, do not remember seeing anybody with PR 2:35 hanging out for so long with slow folks like Mickey or me (though I am not hanging out too much Smile. I am not sure if you ran CIM before but if you didn't, I would say your best chance for an awesome PR is running it for the second time - the course has some kind of character, it's not just simple net downhill course or just a flat course like Chicago, I think you need some a little bit customized approach to get all the best out of it.


      As I said, it was my 4th week of running after two months of no activity 122 total miles for the month of August.


      Mon - 11.3 @ 9:16

      Tue - off

      Wed - 9.6 @ 8:26

      Thu - 11.3 @8:47

      Fri - 11.3 @9:16

      Sat - off

      Sun - 17.1 @8:29


      Total: 60.6 mi


      Planning to finally start a 12 weeks plan on Sep 16th, similar to what I used in 2015 for my PR marathon - only with lower mileage as I will not handle 100 miles weeks this time I think. So, I might try 60-84 plan from Pfitz 5K to Half marathon book (yes, it's a half marathon plan - will just run longer LRs on Sundays). Hopefully, using a plan this time will help me get sub 3 again after a failure last year.

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile


      Mother of Cats

        See....and I'm just the opposite from Calbears - If  I'm feeling really beat during a marathon cycle, I pull back until I feel good again.  I don't think you need to feel GREAT during a cycle - some accumulated fatigue is to be expected.  But, for myself, if I'm really dragging, then I need to cut back and recover until I'm out of that hole.


        [I'll pause here to note that there is more than one path to reach one's marathon goals, and the fact that I take one path is not a criticism of the paths of others]


        On that note....I was feeling really lousy at the end of last week, which was probably the result of combining a) a Friday day trip to Michigan to run a road mile; b) a Saturday 12 miles followed by a wedding party; and c) a Sunday progressive 16.  So...I really focused on recovery on Sunday and Monday.  Came close to skipping the Tuesday workout, but woke up feeling much better, so went ahead with it.  The workout went surprisingly well, but I limited the volume anyways, calling it after the first 2 800s (we had our choice of up to 4).


        Felt good the rest of the week too, so I'm hopefully past that fatigue hump.


        66 miles, 18 "miles" of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming
        M: Yoga and 7 "miles" of pool-running
        T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2x1600, 2x800. Split 6:03, 5:54, 2:55, 2:50. Recoveries of 4:55 and 5:05 after 1600s, 2:48 between the 800s. Also leg strengthwork and 1200 yards recovery swimming.
        W: 8 miles very easy (9:00), drills and strides, yoga, and then 4 miles very easy (8:48).
        Th: Upperbody weights, core and 11 "miles" of pool-running.
        F: 12.5 miles, including a track workout of 3200, 1600 in 12:19 (6:20/5:59) and 5:53. 4:44 recovery between the two. Followed with two hill sprints, leg strengthwork and 1250 yards recovery swimming.
        Sa: 8 miles very easy (8:50), drills and strides, upper body weights/core and DIY yoga and then 4 miles very easy (8:25).
        Su: 17 miles, including 4, 3, 2, and 1 miles at marathon effort with 1 mile moderate (high 7Tight lippedx) between each. Split as:
        4 miles in 27:37 (7:01/6:58/6:49/6:49; average 6:54)
        3 miles in 20:12 (6:46/6:44/6:42; average 6:44)
        2 miles in 13:27 (6:40/6:47; average 6:44)
        1 mile in 6:45
        Followed with injury prevention work and 550 yards recovery swimming.


        Jayluf - the weather is looking pretty good next weekend.  Fingers crossed.


        CalBears  - good to see you back here.  I'd probably run CIM every year if I lived on the west coast also.  For me, it's a long trip to do every year (and I also hate tapering through Thanksgiving).


        Captain Obvious - sometimes it's just not the day.  And if you've overreached your fitness slightly, it can cost a lot.


        (BTW, my vote is for Rocket City, if you're up for it)


        Madison - I hope the tibia continues to ease.  How was the 10K?


        JTReeves - I agree with you - Hartford is slightly different from Erie Smile.  As I recall, you've run Hartford several times before.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          CalBearsfan - maybe Mikkey will start posting again, now that there's another old fart to talk to... 

            Jayluf: Nice week; what is your plan/goal for Berlin BTW?  Sub 2:45 was what you planned at the beginning of the year, let me know if I should adjust it in the table.


            Cal: I am not following any plan (never have), so did not miss any scheduled workout. I tend to need a long time for recovery compared to the average, especially after big workouts, and I had one of those last Saturday which gave lingering fatigue all week. I may do the least number of workouts per marathon cycle on here...not a record to be especially proud of but it is what my body seems to require.


            DW: You should be feeling good after that long run; looks very strong. Yes, I have run Hartford 4 times already; it is for me kind of like CIM is for Cal. Local race which I love, very convenient, well-organized, weather usually good...my only complaint is that &%#*ing hill in mile 26 . I recall you ran it once... I'm curious, how many marathons have you run altogether?

            2:52:16 (2018)


              Cal - This will be my 4th CIM (2005, 2011, 2015) and I agree with you that it's not just a simple flat course like Chicago.  I did run an awesome PR my 2nd time running it . . . and bonked big time my 3rd time running it Smile.  I'm like you with workouts where I'll try the workout even if I'm feeling very fatigued.  My easy runs gets extremely slow (9 minute miles) but I try to keep up the workouts.


              I raced the 10k this morning in 33:52.  I do think I'm in sub 33 shape but not in this race after 22 the day before.  I was only about 20s faster than my 10k split in my LT on Friday.  The course is one I'm very familiar with (loop around Lake Wingra) but with its hills it is not a fast course.  Also, I led from start to finish (won by 2 or 3 minutes) and while it's fun to win soloing 5:20s is not easy.  All in all I'm not disappointed but if I want to add a 10k PR to 2019 I'll have to find one later in the year.


              I'm driving myself crazy with my leg.  No pain during the race and the point tenderness is getting better but now I seem to feel discomfort just while sitting around.  This week was a scheduled down week but I'll be taking it even easier than scheduled.


                Thanks for the support everyone. On the gut issues - I'm pretty sure it was nerves and a very light splash of some sort of sickness, based on how I felt for the rest of the day and a bit of the next day.


                JTReeves - I agree. Mileage was kind of lackluster, especially in the last month and a half leading in. That's part of the reason I'm mulling trying some ultras.


                Madison - That's a fun 10K loop. Nice race.


                darkwave - Yep. Driving from and back to the race start less than 40 minutes pre-race also wasn't a great sign, but eh.


                CalBears - Welcome back! (Not that I was here before, but shh)


                Taper Czar

                  Hey everyone, sorry for being MIA, been on vacation. 12 days off from running, which means I'm going to spend these 2 weeks just doing easy running to get back into the groove. Then, it's an intense 8 week cycle for CIM. We'll see if that's enough to get me sub 2:40. I'll be going for higher mileage than past training programs. Just going to need to stay healthy. Biggest thing I learned from my 5K cycle this summer was that I should keep my easy runs even easier than I have in the past, as that may be the key to me staying injury free.


                  I'll be sure to be more in the loop on everyone's training going forward.


                  CIM should be great, so many folks running it! Feels like every time this happens, it's JT as the odd man out tracking all of us 

                  5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                  Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 


                  Stotan Disciple

                    Darkwave, I'm the same I take a week off in the middle of a cycle. Cumulative fatigue is expected but you should feel burdened or burnt out either. Hence my Honesty tenet. As for 5th Ave hoping you have a great race.


                    Weatherboy - I hope you are safe you are probably witnessing data that makes you love your field as there is nothing like seeing models real time but at the same time we marvel at the data its scary what destruction its wreaking on others. Stay safe brother and get those birds ready there gonna be a lot of rescuing needed.


                    JT Reeves I enjoyed ZURICH BERLIN even watch one in Spain. I just love track and field. Abda cost his team mate the race he has been going out like a rocket Canadian benefited and Brazier stayed off the pace, and wrecked everyone with 50 M to go. @ 50? Actually 25 it was like a 100m.


                    Madison you continue to amaze and impress me nice week, nice race.


                    Cal,  welcome back, glad your finally feeling better and healthy.


                    Me 103 miles for the week. Plus Two races this weekend. Mile on saturday then a 5k on Sunday. Ran a 4:14 hand timed mile and 17:01 5k. The 5k was Hilly my hammys are tight from both efforts.

                    Nick Pedone 5k The highlight of the 5k is coming up the hill at Mile 2 a priest gives out water. Holy water  in a Hilly hellish race equals awesome experience. I keep going back for that. So Cool.


                    Main street mile is a downhill mile similar to fifth ave the uphill section is very short like less than 100M so this course is about 4 seconds faster than 5th ave. Went out in 59ish looking at clock didn't manual split. May even be 60. I was 4th or 5th at 400M. Joe was ahead with two kids, last year i had the worst splits ran a great 1200m and when joe kicked i faded and ran like a 72 last quarter. I was determined not to lose this race, so  I tucked in let him lead it out. as they were ahead and the fast starters started to slow I picked up pace passed one kid at 600m and the other kid at 700m, by then I was second sat on Joe's shoulder just before the 800m clock.


                    Just as we were about to hit the clock I felt him Assert control and relax, that was my plan he was using my race strategy so I decided to change it up. He has a blistering kick I use to dust him when he was in college but out of college he got very fast or I got very old and I could no longer out leg him in a 400m finish sprint maybe a flat 4 but not at the end of a longer race.  Upon sensing him relaxing to float, I immediately sprang into attack mode we were passing through 800m between 2:04 and 2;06, I picked up pace and pushed really hard, my attack surprised him and my quickstep created a gap of about 8 meters, I could hear him trying to pick it up all while speeding up and slowing not sure if I'd come back like I did the year before. This year I had no plans of coming back, I was already at 81 miles by the start of the race.


                    My legs are a marvelous bunch of lazy suckers if I run slow all week they relish hard weekend efforts. It's like they know when he wears a bib its business, no bib slackers... . They cease to complain when they knows there is a 100 mile week coming or a race looming. Anyway by then it was about 1200M and we hit the railroad track at 3:08-3:10. I glance and see clock moving so I can estimate as several times register so I pick pace up again due to Joe's devastating kick and hammered another 200m to play keep away he is still coming but not closing the gap. So its 200m to go and I'm feeling my legs are now starting to say WTF Man? I beg my legs forbearance for another10 seconds before throwing another 50 m surge just to ensure its a done deal.  It's funny at 150m out you watch the clock drip from 3:56 roll slowly into the 4s and you're like no please teleport me but alas my legs are jelly I drive with my arms. I'm slowing but moving and I smoothly glide in, at last glance clock say 4:12 I put my head down and charge in like a bull as i break the finish, I look at my watch its 4:14. I'm elated. They gave me a slower time but I know what I did and race clock confirms it. I don't know why they round up 2 seconds but that was a 4:14 effort.


                    I can hear my GF screaming she is hopping around on the foot she just got PRP done on. I think I was happier to see that than anything if she can hop around she may just be back. We make an awesome old couple. My fastest time there was previously 4:16 in 2008 one year after I started running races. To still be able to eek out PRs is such an amazing feeling. Last year my girlfriend thought she was done due to a collapsed arch she ran a 36:05 10K, followed by a 17:35 BAA 5K at Boston, a 1:19:04 LI Half all in the space of 2 months @ 41 years old. Her seeing me run a time faster than 10 years ago at 47 years old has given her so much hope. She knows as long as she stays healthy I can get her to improve on those times. That why it was so important for her to witness me proving it can be done. She still hates the mile but I'm working on that .

                    Thinking should be done first, before training begins.


                      Cal - Nice volume. I like the way how you're structuring your efforts.

                      DW - Great LR - that 4-3-2-1 is a fun one.

                      Madison - impressive result nonetheless day after 22.

                      JMac - hope you're enjoying the time off. Looking forward to meeting everyone @ CIM

                      Nimmals - Back2back races are rad. Sounds like a cool experience in the 5k. I thoroughly enjoy reading your recaps.

                      JT - After an up and down summer I think I'm in 254ish shape now, so let's call the Berlin goal sub 255. I think I'll have enough training after to aim for sub 250 at CIM. That sub 245 will come @ Paris next April 


                      Taper Czar

                        Nimmals - That's amazing that you snagged another PR. Keep up the good work! I like reading into the race strategy insights as well. Her running a 1:19 at 41 is also unbelievable. You guys are so speedy! Glad to have the knowledge around here.


                        JT - I have 2 races in my buildup to CIM. One of them Grete's 10K on 10/5. Normally I wouldn't include this as part of the race table because it'll be more of a rust buster than an all out effort due to my most recent 12 days off, but given my current 10K PR was actually during my Half PR, I figure I'll be going for a PR and it should be added (goal 35:58).


                        Please also add the Suffolk County Half for me. Goal is a PR there as well, so 1:16:20. Nimmals - not sure if you'll be at the Suffolk County marathon/half this year, let me know.

                        5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                        Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                          JMac: Welcome back; table is updated with your races. And I'm happy to track the races with lots of folks in them like Boston or CIM; it's a lot of fun. But there are others who will not be running it (Weather, DW, Mikkey) so I will have company 


                          Nimmals: Awesome job on that mile; really impressive running that fast at any age, let alone 47. You should run the Spring Street mile in CT next June; it is super fast and you could place really well there. I plan to do it again, it was a lot of fun.

                          2:52:16 (2018)


                          Stotan Disciple

                            Jayluff Thank you. I've always loved back 2 back races. even done the morning evening combo in Boston & New York. fun times.  This was cool because it was the next day. As i get older 2 in 1day has become so challenging.


                            JMAC,  I plan to do Suffolk half unless I can get into a Philly race.


                            JTReeves, Next year I'll plan to do Spring Street.

                            Thinking should be done first, before training begins.


                            Taper Czar


                              JMAC,  I plan to do Suffolk half unless I can get into a Philly race.



                              There goes my shot at 1st OA 

                              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 


                              Stotan Disciple

                                OK I'll just come out to cheer or use the marathon as a tuneup like I did last year.

                                If you win you'd have won more races on the island than I did .

                                Thinking should be done first, before training begins.