Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
RIP Milkman
Wow, this group is intense with their music!
DW - "Start slow/finish fast" is an EXCELLENT motto, but it can be taken to the extreme. I just don't think there is enough time in a half marathon to catch up if you start slow for 2 miles. I would try something like HMP+10 in your next half and see how it works. Still allows you to start slow but not dig yourself a major hole. However, we've beaten this topic to death so I'll leave it at that.
Weather - Glad to see you back out there with the Q days. I've felt lonely lately in my Daniels workouts without being able to track what you're doing as well! I'm always surprised you keep up with the paces in the heat. Maybe that's something to consider, i.e. slowing down to take into account the weather. With Daniels, it's always better to take things 5 seconds too slow on the reps than 5 seconds too fast.
Also, I'm not sure if I told you, but I'm signed up for Boston. Still only 50/50 on doing it, but I see you're in the 2020 Strava group, so i guess you're in?
Mikkey - after your 2 out 10 comment, I'm surprised you aren't just running through it and even considering rest
Vaporfly questions - Two questions for the folks:
1) What mileage did you "retire" your VF from racing? I know DW still uses hers for non-peak races, but I would say at what mileage would you not consider them for a peak marathon? I'm going to be at 102 miles with them before CIM and I'm wondering if I should use my new pair for that race.
2) I used the ZoomFly flyknit last night for the first time, as one of my takeaways from my recent injury is that I want a higher heel to doe drop for some of my workouts to help mix things up. It was raining last night during my entire run, and WOW did they soak up water. I was okay with the flyknit upper, but the outsole felt like it soaked up a pound of water, it was crazy. Is that common with this shoe? I ask because it looks like my half this weekend is going to be pretty bad conditions.
Me - My half this weekend looks a little rough. Mid 50's, raining, and windy. Unfortunately looks like that wind will be a headwind for the entire second half of the race, which is the wrong half to have a headwind of 15-20 mph. I feel like I need weather to take a look at the latest models and tell me how the forecast might change like he did with Boston! Just based on the fact that the wind is coming out of the east, I'm guessing this is some sort of nor'easter. I'm hoping that the wind direction/level changes as I get closer since it's still a few days away, but may have to throw the very aggressive sub 1:15 out the window and just try to nab a PR. I tried to find an alternative half on Saturday, but there aren't any good ones in the tri-state area.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Jayluf: I may not have seen it - but did you post your opinions on Berlin? Was it stupid ridiculous crowded? Or anything else stupid ridiculous? I would appreciate hearing any thoughts.
LOVED my experience running Berlin. Can't recommend it enough.
I ended up inadvertently dropping back to the very last wave/corral where it was really crowded the entire way (as to be expected). The entire race weekend though was pretty smooth. The expo was fun; out in an old soviet era airport. There was a breakfast shakeout run the morning before with 10,000+ runners ending in the Olympic stadium. Morning of was a bit of a cluster just because I wasn't in a race mindset; definitely advise getting into your corral early. The course was great; lots of crowd support despite the weather (50s, showers and some downpours). Tons of energy and excitement the entire way. Really a lot of character. It's a completely different experience running with 4 hour+ marathoners, in the best way possible. The approach to the finish line, running through the Brandenburg gate is about as iconic as they come. Had a smile on my face the whole way. My only complaint was they were giving out non alcoholic beer at the finish.. IN GERMANY.
The race had solid representation from the US. Met a lot of South Africans as well. Berlin is a really fun city with a lot of fun, friendly and interesting people. If I didn't have a conflict next year, I'd be back.
Mother of Cats
Vaporfly questions - Two questions for the folks: 1) What mileage did you "retire" your VF from racing? I know DW still uses hers for non-peak races, but I would say at what mileage would you not consider them for a peak marathon? I'm going to be at 102 miles with them before CIM and I'm wondering if I should use my new pair for that race. 2) I used the ZoomFly flyknit last night for the first time, as one of my takeaways from my recent injury is that I want a higher heel to doe drop for some of my workouts to help mix things up. It was raining last night during my entire run, and WOW did they soak up water. I was okay with the flyknit upper, but the outsole felt like it soaked up a pound of water, it was crazy. Is that common with this shoe? I ask because it looks like my half this weekend is going to be pretty bad conditions.
The pair I used at CIM last year had nearly 200 miles on them, and still performed well, FWIW. Insert caveat here about how I'm a fairly small person with a light footplant and a shuffle stride so I'm probably easier on my shoes than some.
I've worn VFs (OG and flyknit) in several rainy races, including Boston 2018. I've never noted any issue with the outsole soaking up water or getting heavy; I have noted traction issues on wet pavement in the VF4%, both OG and flyknit. Have not had a chance to test the Next% in wet conditions.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
My actual very first concert was AC/DC - the night before high school graduation. Good times.
JTReeves: such a cool dad!! Kids is what it's all about. Running (and related niggles) are far behind in priorities. CT results read today?
Weather: of course 2 x 5 at MP effort is still a good workout! Especially in those conditions.
Mikkey: 30 mpw? love it. Anyhow - Berlin - I thought there was a plan but I couldn't remember! I think I have to register for 2020 since I never know if/when this running thing will come to an abrupt end. I don't know if I'll get the time off from work or not though being new guy on vacation request hierarchy. The heel thing - totally not something you've ever had before??
Slammin: consistency. I'm totally not one to talk. That (and higher mileage) are the two most important things in the marathon toolbox (other than staying injury free) that I have yet to use. I know it's important. Just haven't been able (or have chosen?) to follow.
Jayluf: thanks for your comments!! Basically all I needed to ask was would you do it again - and you answered that question. I bet it would be fun running with the 4 hour crowd! More chill and entertaining! I am jealous of those people sometimes. NA beer - wtf. Sounds like you made up for it at Oktoberfest though. Any advice on where to stay?
JMac: re: VFs - whenever your race times start slowing
Mmmm Bop
Yeah I get what you’re saying,... maybe I’ll register (with insurance) because I don’t know yet. I’ve never had the heel thing before and it happened the day after a gym session with no running...very bizarre and annoying!
Dr JMac - I trained through piriformis during my Spring training and ran a PR at London...despite a terrible week leading up to the race. (thank you Vaporflys for saving the day!). Once you hit 50 then you’ll know all about niggles EVERY single day!
JT - I totally get you on doing your own thing rather than having an online coach. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
I must be doing something wrong or I am not training hard enough but that the one thing I am trying to control and avoid - long term pain and niggles. I do not not remember anything that significant of an injury or pain after I hit 50... Sure I have some issues sometimes but just like this last time - I am trying to slow down or stop it for some time if I think I have an issue. I remember some horror stories years ago from RWOL on sub 3 forum when guys basically walking down the stairs backwards because of pain and that was everyday's story, not just after a marathon or an ultra race. I do not wanna have that - that's one of the goals - trying to run relatively fast (relatively) and trying to not have issues caused by running. Otherwise I do not understand why to do that, training I mean - if it a source of discomfort in your everyday's life - why you doing this? I am aware there is a movement called "masochism" but I am trying to avoid paying their yearly fees, for sure. But I understand some people might enjoy the the membership . Of course, knocking on wood three times...
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
So what have you actually done running wise since you turned 50? I’m having a minor grumble about getting older...but I still deliver! 💪
That was not the point of my post. By your delivering, did you break any world records? Or any records? Did you earn any money by "delivering" that would support your life style - so you can justify daily pain and niggles?
Seriously, I just can't understand why regular runners brag about having those constant issues? I understand those who won some Major marathons maybe, or some big races, earn money by running, but us, hobby joggers?
Just in case - I ran my PR race (which was Moose Mug eligible) at the age of 50 - but again - that is not the point...
Calbears - We need to have a head to head marathon race.....you choose which country and I’ll be there. 👍
C'mon you two old farts stop arguing
Oleg choose a marathon in Siberia to take down Mikkey
As a fellow 50 year old the body is more fragile but I only run about 30 mpw now. I find that to be a nice balance of fitness without been hard on my body. It's not gonna make me race fit however.
Oleg I remember that guy was Dgpeters I think.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Calbears - We need to have a head to head marathon race.....
I would love this.
I really like this idea - if US works, Boston 2021 would be ideal - I bet its as far from you as from me - it's 6 and a half hours flight for me.If I chose some European country, you would have an advantage - because it would be like local marathon for you. Your thoughts?
Plus, in Boston you would meet so many people you know from all these forums.
Just checked flights from London to Boston in 2020 - just an hour longer than it would take for me get there and the same price - seems like a fair match?
PK - yeah, it was dgpeters - I do not see him running at strava...
Hes training for one of those skyscraper races up the stairs
I really like this idea - if US works, Boston 2021 would be ideal - I bet its as far from you as from me - it's 6 and a half hours flight for me.If I chose some European country, you would have an advantage - because it would be like local marathon for you. Your thoughts? Plus, in Boston you would meet so many people you know from all these forums. Just checked flights from London to Boston in 2020 - just an hour longer than it would take for me get there and the same price - seems like a fair match? PK - yeah, it was dgpeters - I do not see him running at strava...
Ok that’s a deal...Boston 2021 it is then. I think I only need to jog a 3:30 or something to qualify. 😁
Awesome! Can't wait to beat your young ass on an easy downhill course! And thank you for giving me a motivation for the next 18 months. I know I can count on you showing up as you are a Brit, not american softy