Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Mother of Cats
Re: VFs - Weather, I agree with Jmac - I'd do both a short easy run (to make sure they fit OK) and then a single work out at MP ish. Tempo would work also.
I would never take any pair of shoes, VF or not, out of a box and right into a race. I got a nice reminder of that this summer, when it turned out my first pair of Next%s had several manufacturing defects that made them painful to run 3 miles in.
Re: Boston - I'm with Fly - I wasn't planning on running Boston 2021, but I may need to be there to witness this.
JTReeves - that is excellent news on the non-hernia. Sounds like you got the best possible answer - you know what it is, it doesn't require surgery, and it can be fixed.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Jmac - good luck tomorrow!
JMac - great work today on HM - especially impressive that you are doing it during training cycle!
Mikey - thanks for the offer and the challenge - that's exactly what I needed - hopefully with the job situation settling down for me I will be able to become a contender and beat you in 2021
My week was good except that by the end of it the legs were so heavy that I just was not able to follow the recommended effort and just followed with the feel. But in general I feel good about the week and the mileage and the fact that foot problem is not a problem at the moment.
Mon - 5.1 @ recovery (10:11)
Tue - 11.3 @GA (8:28)
Wed - 12.2 with 6 x 1200 (~5:50-5:55) (8:42)
Thu - 12.5 @endurance (8:16)
Fri - 6.5 @recovery (9:48) AM / 4 @recovery TM (9:09) PM
Sat - 10.4 with 8x12secs uphill and 8x100 strides (9:00)
Sun - 21.3 @endurance (8:33)
Total: 83.3 miles
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
JTReeves: great news!! So psoas? Have you had ART on it? Especially with scar tissue. Is that what your PT is doing? Should be the good kind of pain when they work on it I think. I'm seriously inflexible too.
Mikkey: how's the heel? So odd. Ok so this 30 mpw is not going to be acceptable much longer. lol
Flyrunner: Hey! How are you doing?
M: 15 min w/u, 6 x 1600m (6:13) w/400m rec (2-2:15), 15 min c/d T: 45 min on trails (8:38) W: 10 mi (7:40) T: 10 mi (7:37) F: 60 min on trails (8:01) S: 10 mi (7:54) S: 16 mi (7:09) Felt like a switch flipped this week. Running feels good and effortless (relatively!) again. It had been a struggle for a long time. Next week I only have Friday off work so I'll plan on a workout that day - so no long run - but will try and keep up the miles in daily runs. Treadmill is assembled!
RIP Milkman
Thanks Cal. Was able to secure a PR today in the half at 1:16:05. Strong diagonal headwinds hit us for the last 6 miles, so I’m very happy with my effort. Really proud of how hard I worked in those last 4-5 miles, as I felt like I was going to vomit at mile 10 but somehow held on. Came in 2nd overall.
I think with this effort in those conditions, plus with another 3 big weeks of 80+ (if my foot holds up), I have to shoot for 2:39. JT - add my goal as sub 2:40 for CIM. It’s going to require a perfect execution to turn a 1:16 half into a sub 2:40 but I’m ready!
Nimmals - I think the guy you were supporting was the winner? If so, he got to a 20-30 second lead and then held exactly that for the rest of the race. I never got closer than 10 seconds to him, but also never more than 30 seconds behind. He must have went out so hard and then just keep the same pace as me. I was very happy with my overall race as I was 4th through 3 miles but worked into 3rd by mile 5 and 2nd by mile 7. Just could never catch the leader with how I felt. Good work by your guy.
Cal - any idea what you want to target in CIM? We’re getting into the last 3 weeks of real training here so I wonder if you have a good idea.
cinammon - nice week! Your Sunday was especially great.
DW - I know we spoke about the Vaporfly in the rain. I actually found a thread you spoke about after Boston, and I swear the same thing happened to me what other people complained about! I was turning around a relatively sharp turn, and the foot insert completely slipped on my right foot. After the race, I learned that both insoles had slipped. I did notice some water being soaked up into the foam, but it wasn’t devastating. Either way, I’m not sure these are the greatest shoes for rain. I might have to follow the advice in the thread and glue the insoles.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JMac - Congrats! Sub 2:40 seems realistic with a 1:16 half.
Nimmals - Did I see correctly that you have an elliptigo? How do you like it? I have a bionic runner (stand-up bike that supposedly mimics running). It's good for cross training but not really a substitute for running.
My mileage is way down due to being cautious about not getting injured and life intervening last week (no running). But this week I got in 54 miles and 2 good workouts (VO2 max of 5x1000 in 5:15 pace and 12 miles at 6:00 pace).
JMac: well done in the wind! Keep it together. Crazy to realize there is only a few weeks left of prime training for CIM. And thanks - Sunday was a massive surprise.
Jayluf (and Mikkey): Berlin -- bag or poncho?
My plan didn't change - I will target sub 3, though with my current weight (168+ lbs ) I doubt the success. I will have HM next week where I would like to try to have 6:40 average pace but again - not too much confidence. The positive of all that is I am training at this weight and as soon as I start working on loosing it, I should become a little bit faster. I still very excited how my foot pain disappeared after I took 3 days off running - very encouraging to see how body still heals even at this age.
Mmmm Bop
I had a bag drop and don’t remember any issues with queuing after the race. I finished in 2:59:58 and remember looking at my watch at Brandenburg Gate with 300m to go and thinking that there’s no way I’m missing Sub 3 by 1 second! I went for the poncho option at NYC because I think you had to walk too far to get to the bag retrieval. 😁. That’s a great looking week btw!
JMac - Congrats on another great performance and PR! JT, you can put him down for 2:38:33 at CIM. 👍
Cal - Great week and wow, 3 days off and you’re back on it again! I thought 168 Ibs was your normal racing weight. 😁
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
JMac: Awesome job on the PR under tough conditions. The weather was pretty awful up by me yesterday morning so I'm guessing not much different down where you raced. Glad you are in for sub 2:40!
Cinnamon: What a great week, I am envious . Glad that things are feeling effortless; those are the runs that make it all worthwhile. You asked if my PT is using ART; she did not call it that but it hurt like f*#k so maybe it is? At least she warned me that it would be painful.
Cal: Nice build of the mileage. What is you usual racing weight? Whatever it is plenty of time to reach it by the showdown with Mikkey.
Madison: Better to be cautious; sounds like the fitness is still there based on those workouts.
2:52:16 (2018)
So...I'm a bit confused - what is the difference between effort and feel? To me, those terms are interchangeable.
Nice solid week of mileage. And good news on the foot - I love it when stuff clears quickly (as I'm sure we all do!)
Cinnamon - glad you're feeling so good!
Jmac, CONGRATULATIONS (I know I wrote it on Strava also, but never hurts to do it twice). FWIW, I agree with your assessment of your fitness regarding the sub-2:40. One bit of unsolicited advice (forgive me) - please don't get greedy in the last few weeks (I don't consider sub-2:40 to be greedy). I've seen so many people the last few weeks get excited, decide to amp up their training, and end up fried or injured before their goal race. Just land the plane safely.
And yup, in the flyknits, the insole glue melting is a real issue. I wore them for Broad Street in the rain and had no issue, but I also superglued the insoles the night before. The OG VFs didn't seem to have the same issue.
Madison - nice workouts!
***
My week:
50 miles, 27 "miles" of pool-running, and 1000 yards of swimmingM: 7 "miles" pool-running.T: 9 "miles" of pool-running and upper body weights/core.W: 6 miles very easy to yoga (9:02), yoga, and 6 miles home (8:30) plus drills and stridesTh: 12 miles, including a track workout of 3200, 1600 in 12:59 (6:34/6:25) and 6:10, with 4:38 recovery. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.F: 11 "miles" of pool-running, followed by upperbody weights/core and DIY yoga.Sa: 16 miles progressive - split as first 5 miles averaging 9:00 pace; next 5 miles averaging 7:35 pace; last 6 miles averaging 6:43 pace. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.Su: 10 miles very easy (8:58), plus cheering at Marine Corps Marathon.
Legs are a bit heavy right now - which is normal. I carried some fatigue from last week's half into this week. And then a combo of the progressive 16 followed by standing for a few hours at a party followed by not enough sleep followed by 10 miles plus race cheering had a cumulative effect. Funny how that works.
I'm not particularly worried - I think I feel slightly better now than I did at this same point before CIM. Just need to keep reminding myself that it's time to pull back.
Thanks everyone! I posted the Race Report over in sub 1:30 as is tradition for me with any PR (https://www.runningahead.com/forums/post/313090d87354491db62cfb65a26325c2#focus)
It's been a great year as I've snagged a PR in 6 different races. Very happy
DW - thank you! And yes, that's good advice. I'm not planning anything crazy the last 3 weeks. I will up my mileage to the low 80s this week, but then hold that until the taper. No more races here, and I actually took out a V02 max workout I had planned as I think it goes to what you're saying: not really relevant for the race and can only injure me. This week will only have 3 miles at MP or faster as I recover from the half, although I'm feeling a lot better than I have in my previous halfs. It's amazing how the more mileage you run, the less sore you feel after these races.
I'll have to go glue these insoles when I get home!
Regarding heavy legs, I feel like that's a good thing 2 weeks out from a goal race. If you felt fresh now, you're going to be rusty going into the race. I know you said you require more of a taper than others, but just remember that: you still have 2 weeks to go and you shouldn't feel rested.
Nimmals - one more thing I forgot to add in my last post, but put it in my race report: Long Island races do a bad job with actually having people run the certified courses. I checked the USATF website the night before, and it explicitly says the course is measured with runners staying to the right of the center line. I stuck with that my entire race, but I was the only guy doing that, as I care more about running a true half rather than placing. I don't know why the main guy who is at all these Long Island races (name is escaping me right now) doesn't give instructions at the start.
JT - that's my favorite part about PT! They really do some great massage/joint work that you can't do at home. I hope you continue to heal up and it's great news that it's not a hernia.
Madison - it's so weird to see you running so little! We're all used to your 100+ mile weeks at this point. However, this is clearly the smart thing to do. Don't go crazy before CIM, only three weeks left and more important for you to get there healthy than get all that mileage back.
JMac: Outstanding race and congrats on the PR! Looked over your race report and your splits on strava and just amazed at how you kept up the pace in the second half of the race in those conditions. Thinking your fitness has hit a new level this year and agree that you'll be close to a sub 2:40 come CIM with the right conditions.
JT: Glad to hear there is no re-occurrence of the hernia! Hope you can pinpoint and get recovered now. No sense in pushing anything right now either.
Madison: Sounds like a good week building back into it!
DW: Thanks for the additional info on the VF's. Tentatively have a HM planned for Dec 1 (assuming our weather breaks LOL) and will try the shoes out sometime in mid November for like 12-14 at MP before race day. BTW, yet another solid looking week!
Cal, & Cinnamon: Very solid looking weeks!
Me: Got in my highest volume to date this cycle hitting 90 miles again for the first time since last March. Nothing overly crazy as far as speed or workouts go as I ran one big one on Wednesday with 10 at marathon pace effort (or slightly faster with the heat) that I had to break up into 5.6 + 4.4 since I needed to grab some fluids. Other effort was a monster 21 mile LR on Saturday where I must have lost a good 7-10 pounds of fluids and took a lot of mental toughness to close out those last 5-6 miles. Hopefully, some type of relief is coming soon as I feel pretty good getting in the consistent high volume, but the heat/humidity hasn't allowed me to attempt some of the Daniel's style TLT runs that get (my opinion) me ready for the last 8-10 miles of the marathon. Long term forecast still looks pretty warm, but after next weekend at least the humidity levels should drop below peak summer range!
Mon: 12.2 EZ (AM), 4.3 EZ (PM)
Tues: 10.5 EZ + strides (AM)
Wed: 3E + 10M (6:10ish) + 2.2E (AM), 4.1 EZ (PM)
Thurs: 10.2 EZ (PM)
Fri: 7.1 EZ + strides (AM)
Sat: 21.15 LR w/ a slight progression and hills
Sun: 5.31 EZ
Total 90.1 miles
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
Stotan Disciple
JMAC congrats on a great race. At the start I looked for you but I didn't recognize you. I waited a half mile in and jumped in with a lady I coach ran with her the entire time..
I was jogging along the road with Tara wearing my full Nike Gyakusou kit in Burgandy. when the leaders passed me
The guy who won is someone I coach but I was no where in the vicinity of you guys he just told me he heard 2nd footstep at some points in the race. The other guy who caught a cramp @ mile 8 is really strong but new to running. He will need some more work.
That was a solid performance by you.
Congrats again.
Madison Runner yes I have an Eliptigo 11R it's an 11 spreed so its great for anywhere I can climb hills etc. but it sucks when its cold out due to the fast rate of speed and Reynauds its time is limited to May to September. My extremties are on fire if its too cold. But its an amazing supplemental to maintaining fitness when my running needs to be limited.
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
Yeah, I know, I am not a native speaker and sometimes mess the words meaning, but in this case I think it's pretty simple. Like if you came to a party and the host recommends you a really nice Picchetti Zinfandel 2015 red wine, but the problem is that from the moment you woke up that day, you knew you are capable of consuming sparkling glass of "Stoli" and you could not wait to have it. I had the same meaning in mind - a plan can recommend you 7 miles LT session, but from the moment you woke up you had no doubt you are not going to do it And just run by feel, whatever that meant that day, to get miles, even if they are "junk miles"