2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 292 times)

finbad


    Swim - great week

    Weather - top 3 and <1:18 is excellent

    JT - just ticking off the solid weeks

    Darkwave - good week, your attention to the strength and conditioning is a good reminder to all of us

    Sling - That is a bunch of elevation! I think you can count it as your weekly strength session too

     

    My week - highest ever weekly mileage - 92

    M - easy double

    T - 17 steady (15cm of surprise snow so I just went for a steady run)

    W - easy double

    T - kettlebell class & club run with 2x 2M (5:55ish)

    F - double with 3k @6:00

    S - jogging

    S - 19 (4 mile warm up on the trails, 7 miles down hill, 1 mile flat, 7 miles uphill). Going to try to use this run again to prep for Boston as there is 500ft of drop over 7M.

     

    This week, similar then cut back a bit next week

    Upcoming; 31st March Alloa half marathon Tom Scott 10 mile, 15th April Boston marathon, 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race

    JTReeves


      JTReeves - how steep are those hill repeats? 

       

       

      Sorry I missed responding to this DW; they are about 12% average grade.

       

      sling: That's what I though your goal was but wanted to check with you. I think all the Boston runners have an asterisk of "depending on the weather" attached to their goals.

       

      Finbad: Huge week! Congrats on the new record. That's a nice Boston simulating long run, it should serve you well.

      5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

      2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

      JMac11


        Training is really starting to pick back up on this thread! Good work everyone. If only Mikkey would show back up, he had a huge treadmill session this week too.

         

        Fin - Amazing comeback from all your injury bouts. You're really following the BOTT theme for this year!

         

        JT - Somehow I missed that you're now running a spring marathon? I thought you were only doing halfs. Anyway, you're on a great comeback trail as well. I feel good enough with my training that I think I'm going for a PR at Boston, so put me down for <2:46

         

        DW - Nice week, Sunday run was very good.

         

        Weather - Good weather is coming at Boston so we'll be able to see you crack that 2:39 barrier . I don't think the taper into the half hurt you honestly, I think you can easily do a 1 week taper (or 5 days if you're strong enough) and be fine. The trickiest thing is after the half and how to get back into things. I'm struggling with what to do with the NYC Half because it's 4 weeks out from Boston. I can't just take the next week lightly, so interested in your plan.

         

        Swim - That's a big week, quality days every other day is super impressive.

         

        Me - First week that looks like marathon training in a while. Tuesday's run was supposed to be much tougher, but I was exhausted from the long weekend and also still was a bit sick, so I bailed on most of the tempo work. Was able to get a good one in on Saturday though. PTT is slowly but surely getting there. It was definitely sore after Saturday's run, but felt fine during my recovery run Sunday. I would say it's about 90% of the way there, which is very encouraging. Still sticking with all my exercises and stretches though, I know once you get lazy it comes right back! Going to up it to 65 miles this week, but I know I need to be careful with going up from there as my peak last cycle was 70-75. I'm never quite sure how fast you can come back from injury/time off after a previous marathon. Probably still an area I need to learn more about my body. Anyway, goal is to have no weeks under 50 from here until the week before Boston.

         

        Weekly Summary
        Monday, Jan 21, 2019 thru Sunday, Jan 27, 2019

        ‚Äč

        <tfoot> </tfoot>
        Day Miles Pace Description Link
        Mon 8.2 7:28 Afternoon Run strava
        Tue 12.8 7:28 ETE strava
        Thu 10.0 7:30 Evening Run strava
        Fri 8.0 7:28 Evening Run strava
        Sat 16.5 7:11 2E + 2x2T + 7E + 2T + 1E strava
        Sun 6.0 8:01 Afternoon Run strava
          61.5 7:27  

        5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

         

        Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

        finbad


          Good to see you back on the marathon grind JMac.

           

           

          Weather - Good weather is coming at Boston so we'll be able to see you crack that 2:39 barrier . I don't think the taper into the half hurt you honestly, I think you can easily do a 1 week taper (or 5 days if you're strong enough) and be fine. The trickiest thing is after the half and how to get back into things. I'm struggling with what to do with the NYC Half because it's 4 weeks out from Boston. I can't just take the next week lightly, so interested in your plan.

           

           

          I've got a half 4 weeks prior to Boston too, had the same before London last year as well. In 2018 I did a small slow run on Monday, a double with a very tentative 3x 10 mins on Tuesday to get the legs moving again, easy Wed (4), Thu (7), Fri (9) with gradually escalating pace then 21 at a decent pace on the Saturday and felt fine to do another 10 on the Sunday then roll into the next week.

          Upcoming; 31st March Alloa half marathon Tom Scott 10 mile, 15th April Boston marathon, 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race

          weatherboy80


            Fin:  Congrats on your highest week ever.  Thinking that will pay some big dividends with the speed you have.  Love that sub 6 marathon pace goal!

             

            JMac: Nice solid week and that was quite a comeback workout to boot.  Thinking you might not be too far off from your original goal assuming you can get in a solid 8+ weeks of volume.  Hope your right about Boston weather, but I think it is less ideal far often than not which makes it part of the game there!  Like yesterday plan will be to run as hard as the conditions allow.  Don't really know about sub 2:40 yet as I would have liked to see a slightly faster half marathon in the sub 1:16 to give myself the confidence to go out at that kind of pace, especially at Boston. Even though yesterday or even my half about 7 weeks ago were in less than ideal conditions I gave it my all in both.  Based on my workouts and recent race times I'd like to think I might be in the 1:16-1:17 (with an outside shot at sub 1:16) on a nice day with a group to run and of course little wind.  One thing I also need to factor in is that on some of my recent monster workout loops (neighborhoods) my GPS will tend to overestimate my marathon/threshold pace so I'm perhaps a few seconds per mile slower than my watch my indicates Wink.  As for my current HM recovery, mid-cycle, I plan to take this week just about all easy, but will try to keep the total volume up with even with a long slow run next weekend and then jump back into some quality with speed next week.  Being so far removed from the goal race I figure I can do that now, but being 4 weeks out it would be tempting to jump back in with quality sooner!

            5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

            JTReeves


              JT - Somehow I missed that you're now running a spring marathon? I thought you were only doing halfs. Anyway, you're on a great comeback trail as well. I feel good enough with my training that I think I'm going for a PR at Boston, so put me down for <2:46

               

              JMac:  I was originally thinking not to do a spring marathon but the hernia surgery didn't set me back as much as I thought it would, so I changed my mind. Solid week for you; that Sat. session was excellent. It's good news you are 90% out of the woods with the PTT as well. And I like the goal for Boston!

               

              The goals column is filling up nicely... people are starting to put BOTT 

              5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

              2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

              JMac11


                Re: Post Half Recovery - Interesting perspective from both of you guys. I know the general rule is to take 1 day per 3-4K (general rule per my coach aka JD), which would mean a minimum of 5-7 days of easy, but I was hoping to get another workout in 4 days after. Was thinking of taking the day off afterwards, and then 2 easy runs, then a workout. Feels like you're just throwing away one of the most important weeks, which is the final week before a 3 week taper. This is generally why I hate doing these races within 6 weeks of your goal race because it completely mucks up your training. This is also why I like doing 15K or 10 milers because the recovery is easier. I guess it's always a case of "listen to your body" right afterward and abort the Thursday workout after the race if needed.

                 

                Also, Weather, you're going for 2:39. This is the BOTT year and I will hear no more about how you need X, Y, and Z to happen. I am not in PR shape right now, but I'm putting up that PR goal for something to strive for. You can't be putting up your kind of workouts, even with a few seconds off, and not go for sub 2:40. My dream is dead after PTT, and I want to live vicariously through you (and probably Finbad) too.

                 

                Speaking of Finbad - Why don't you have your 2:39 goal up there? You better not have as many excuses lined up as Weather .

                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

                 

                Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

                JTReeves


                  Also, Weather, you're going for 2:39. This is the BOTT year and I will hear no more about how you need X, Y, and Z to happen. I am not in PR shape right now, but I'm putting up that PR goal for something to strive for. You can't be putting up your kind of workouts, even with a few seconds off, and not go for sub 2:40. My dream is dead after PTT, and I want to live vicariously through you (and probably Finbad) too.

                   

                  Speaking of Finbad - Why don't you have your 2:39 goal up there? You better not have as many excuses lined up as Weather .

                   

                  I agree that both Weather and Finbad should be targeting sub 2:40. Weather based on the workouts he has been putting up for.... oh, the last couple years! And Fin, despite the setback with injury, is running strong and has a 75 min half to his name. London last year was roasting hot and probably he was in close to 2.40 shape back then.

                   

                  JMac, you never know, even with the PTT setback, you've put up some sick workouts the last couple weeks. Young-uns like you can bounce back really quickly so sub 2:40 is still on the table.

                  5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                  2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

                  weatherboy80


                    Thanks for that boost of confidence Smile  I think Fin certainly has just about as good of shot as any of us!  I'd just urge a sense of caution, specifically at Boston.  For example, I witnessed 2 friends who in 2016 put in killer training cycles (Daniels 2Q BTW) including several low 16 5ks, lots of volume, and even throw down 1:15ish HM's and come home at Boston with a 2:52+ and the other walked in with a 3:15+ after going out at low 6 pace for the first half.  Don't get me wrong I'm certainly going for at "least" a sub 2:45, a PR, and I'll reevaluate as I get some more workouts under my belt.

                    5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

                    JMac11


                      For example, I witnessed 2 friends who in 2016 put in killer training cycles (Daniels 2Q BTW) including several low 16 5ks, lots of volume, and even throw down 1:15ish HM's and come home at Boston with a 2:52+ and the other walked in with a 3:15+ after going out at low 6 pace for the first half.

                       

                      They came home with bad times because of terrible weather! Obviously these are weather dependent, we know that nobody is hitting sub 2:40 in this thread at Boston if it's in the 70s, or 30s with a 20mph headwind with rain the entire time. But I think you need to set goals assume "average" weather, which would be something in the 50s.

                       

                      There is just no way you should be thinking of anything other than sub 2:40. If you get a decent weather day, you should hit sub 2:45 about 95 out of 100 times with your current fitness level. You were probably in sub 2:45 shape a year ago if not for another warm day in Florida.

                       

                      Practicing what I preach, JT lower my half goal a minute, I think sub 1:19 is probably the right number (think I would shoot for sub 1:18 on a normal course).

                      5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

                       

                      Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

                      Brewing Runner


                      Cat Disliker

                        Re: Post Half Recovery - I Feels like you're just throwing away one of the most important weeks, which is the final week before a 3 week taper.

                         

                        Any reason for a 3 week taper vs a two week taper? If you went to a two week taper could you use the 3rd week as a "recover from a race" week during training?

                        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                        Half: 1:34:26 (2016)

                        Marathon 3:13:20 (2016)

                        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                         

                        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/20/20 marathon

                        JMac11


                           

                          Any reason for a 3 week taper vs a two week taper? If you went to a two week taper could you use the 3rd week as a "recover from a race" week during training?

                           

                          Even if you did a 2 week taper (which I did last year because I was sick during this crucial 4 weeks to go period), it still leads to a goofy schedule where you're mini-tapering into a race with 5 weeks to go, then recovering with 4 weeks to go, then back up with 3 weeks to go, then tapering? Much better to do your sharpening race with 6 weeks to go and at a shorter distance, with gives you an extra 2 weeks of good training.

                          5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

                           

                          Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Just have to note: a half-marathon is not just a tune-up race, but also a very significant lactate threshold workout.  So that time that you spend tapering before and recovering after is not lost training, but rather part of absorbing a big workout.

                             

                            For myself, I like to race a half-marathon 3 weeks out from a marathon.  I do my last 20 four weeks out, then rest up all week for the half.  The half, raced all out, is both a tune-up and my last key workout before the marathon.  Then recovery from the half blends with marathon taper.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            madisonrunner


                              Re: Post Half Recovery - I think a week is plenty.  I'd expect you could do a half on Sunday and still do your long run the following Saturday or Sunday.  I think there's a decent chance you could do a hard Thursday workout after a half too, but you'd have to see how you feel.

                               

                              The weather is causing some problems for my training.  We now have had 3 major snowstorms in about 10 days and in between it has been brutally cold.  I did hit my weekly mileage goal for last week (88) but I bailed on my long run planned for Saturday and only went 8 miles. It was -23. Wednesday morning is forecast for -25 and Thursday morning is forecast to be -30.  This week is all easy runs for me (with some strides and a long run on the weekend) with a goal mileage of 94.  I've got 18 planned for Tuesday and 21 for Thursday (both doubles) so hopefully I can trudge through those.  Saturday is 20 (single) as my long run.

                              Marathon PR:  2:37:22 (2018)  Goal Race:  Milwaukee Marathon 4/6/19

                              finbad


                                Darkwave - that's a great point about the half basically being a really tough specific marathon build workout.

                                 

                                Madison - those temperatures are horrible, great effort getting anything done. How do you dress for that? Is it just lots of layers?

                                 

                                Re: Boston Goal. I'm not going to get over-excited. I said my plan was <2:40 if Feb and Mar training made that look possible. So far I've shaken of the injuries and put in some good miles but not really hit any tough workouts. First target is attack the half and then I'll use that to calibrate a reasonable Boston time. Would be great if we could get a group together to work through the first half at least.

                                 

                                My qualifying time is 2:47:00 which looks to be on the border of corral 1 & 2, JMac your time looks like corral 1 and Weatherboy perhaps corral 2. Is that about right?

                                Upcoming; 31st March Alloa half marathon Tom Scott 10 mile, 15th April Boston marathon, 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race