2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 616 times)

Brewing Runner


CIM FanBoi

    Question for folks who have run CIM before:

     

    I know the course isn't dead flat, and it's been mentioned (I think by Cal?) that you need to be ready for it as it's not straightforward. I was looking at the elevation map, and it seems like there isn't a single gain 50 feet or higher. Looks like most are in the 20-30 feet range, which really is just a small roller.

     

     

    What did you guys think when running it? As long as you don't live in Florida or somewhere else pancake flat, I assume there's not much to it, right?

    https://youtu.be/U8tH7KtP7NM 32 minute course video

     

    first 1/3 is downhill, Second 1/3 is rolling hills, last 6 miles are pancake flat. At least that is what I remember from 2016.

    HARD right hand turn in the first mile that leads to an uphill. I swing it wide. Relay points can get crowded but you shouldn't have to worry about that too much. I feel there is enough variation in the course it works to a runners advantage if they've done a variety of training. I mostly think about keeping pace, and since it was the biggest marathon I'd run until Chicago I used the people around me to keep going. I never stuck with a pace group so that might be odd for me this year. I was always able to find a tiny pack to roll with and the aid stations were well prepared to handle a lot of runners coming in. Crowds were out cheering people on too. When I come down the bridge (25:50 in the video) it's time to put in work and hang on until the finish. When you see the Capitol building and see palm trees on your left (32:00 in the video) you have two more left turns to make to get to the finish. Conveniently where the video ends since it was recorded on race day one year. The first left hand turn can be messy/slippery with leaves or whatever because I think there is a drain at that corner. Men and women have separate finish lines. Women's finish line entry is before men's.

    1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

    5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

    10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

    Half: 1:31:19.5* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

    Marathon 3:05:22.9* (2019 Mt Charleston Marathon)

    Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

    *downhill course with 5,126 ft net drop and 30F temp change. 

     

    2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon

     

      Question for folks who have run CIM before:

       

      I know the course isn't dead flat, and it's been mentioned (I think by Cal?) that you need to be ready for it as it's not straightforward. I was looking at the elevation map, and it seems like there isn't a single gain 50 feet or higher. Looks like most are in the 20-30 feet range, which really is just a small roller.

       

       

      What did you guys think when running it? As long as you don't live in Florida or somewhere else pancake flat, I assume there's not much to it, right?

       

      Just so everyone has a visual of it:

      California

      5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

      Up next: Athens OH Marathon (April 19)

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        I'll post more later, but.... I do not feel the course runs the way it looks from the chart.  There is a fair amount of climbing - the course is almost like shark's teeth, tilted slightly downward.

         

        I think the biggest factor is not that any one hill is tough, but that the course rolls continuously, with almost nothing flat until the final miles.  Most rolling courses have some flat sections - CIM doesn't really, until the end.

         

        It is a very fast race, but it is not the equivalent of one of the Tunnel races, with a gentle continuous slope.  And it is a course that can be hard on the body.  I was far more beaten up after CIM last year than after Boston or Grandma's (of course, Boston had cryotherapy my year).

         

        It's fast, but you do need to respect it.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          JTReeves: how does it feel after the PT work? I suppose they gave you exercises / stretches to do - How's that going. lol. I hope you're feeling better!!

           

          It's getting better for sure, thanks for asking. I do have "homework" exercises and stretches to do as well, apparently I have weak and not fully engaged glutes  which can lead to hip flexor issues, so a lot is addressed towards correcting that and strengthening my arse. Been running every other day but I'm getting antsy to get back in to it. Hopefully in the next week or so I'll be running 5-6 days a week. Starting to get fat from less running and too much Halloween candy!

           

          Marky: I'm excited about your 10k race...what is your goal? Sub 33? Good luck!

           

          Weather: Great week as always!

          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

          Up next: Athens OH Marathon (April 19)

          Marky_Mark_17


            JTReeves - thanks!  Yes the goal is sub-33.  From speaking to one of the organisers, there's a pack of 6-7 runners who are all aiming for around 31:30-33, plus there is a 32-pacer so I'm hoping I can tag on to the group and hang in there for as long as possible.  The standard will be high with around 4-5 runners aiming for sub-30 as well.  Wellington can be notoriously windy - but as the race is still a week away I don't really know how the weather's going to pan out yet.

             

            Hopefully you get those niggles sorted and are back into it from next week!

            5,000m: 16:03 (Dec-18) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

            HM: 1:12:49 (Sep-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

            Last race: The Agency Group 10,000m, 9 Nov, 32:58

            Up next: Kerikeri Half Marathon, 23 Nov

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            JMac11


            Benevolent Leader

              DW - that graph definitely looks deceiving. I've used the same on for NYC and it's a scale issue: it makes it look the Queensboro bridge is a little hill you have to climb

               

              New-York-City-Marathon-e

               

              I think this is more accurate for CIM, do you agree?

               

               

              CIM-2011

              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

               

              Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)


              Yak-3 vs Spitfire

                JMac - I didn't run a lot of marathon courses but among the ones I have ran, CIM has a different "character". Like DW already said -  it just basically doesn't have flat parts on the course until miles 17-18. Some may say it's even more mental than actual - for example, you might run some downhill stretch but while running it, you also would clearly see the coming uphill section in just maybe 0.3-0.4 miles - some people might struggle with that view Smile And that "coming uphill" picture repeats again and again. There are definite pluses - you will be able to exercise different groups of muscles and, if prepared, you will not be as tired as running flat marathon where you are involving the same muscle groups for the whole distance. The main minus is that you might not get into a rhythm - because it's still a different effort on uphill and downhill sections - but there is still some kind of rhythm to it as there are no miles with only ascent or descent (except mile 1 of course which is really noticeable downhill) - so, you should always expect downhill and uphill sections during the same mile - also, what I find interesting, I do not think there is a section where you would have uphill, then some flat and then uphill again - uphill always followed by a downhill - so, I always use the strategy to work a little harder on uphill and "relaxing"(recovering) a little bit on a downhill - because I always know after harder part follows an easier one. In general, every mile has a little bit more down than up.

                 

                I hope that helps. I do not think you will have any issues with the rolling nature though as you are running in a place where it is a norm, I believe. But just wanted to clarify on the "character" of the course, so you would be more prepared for it (even if mentally). As DW already mentioned - it's a fast course and the weather is usually pretty good to runners.

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                   

                   

                  I think this is more accurate for CIM, do you agree?

                   

                   

                  CIM-2011

                   

                  I agree - much more accurate. It does significantly exaggerate the net drop of the course, due to the proportions of the elevation axis versus the distance.  But...what it does capture well is how the course is up/down/up/down/up/down.    When I think of rolling courses, I expect to hit a number of hills, but also to have some "intermissions" on level ground - even if only for a quarter mile.  CIM doesn't really have any of that.  It's a plus in that it makes the race got by more quickly since you continually have an uphill or downhill to focus on.  But if you're a rhythm runner, it's hard to hit a rhythm.

                   

                  Also important to remember that the pacers pace off of "even effort" - meaning they go faster on the downhills/slower on the up.  And since the race starts with a drop, they intentionally start slightly faster than goal pace.  Which works fine if you are running 26 miles at 15-20 minutes slower than you are capable of racing the distance.  But not so great if you are intending to cover the course at the limit of your abilities.

                   

                  Brewing provided the best course video I'm aware of.  Another good reference, if you subscribe to Plus Runnerspace, is to watch the full race video from last year's CIM.  That really captures the nature of the up and downhills better than anything else out there, IMHO.

                   

                  On a different note - good luck to Steve at NYC this weekend!

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                  Elite Jogger

                     

                    Just so everyone has a visual of it:

                    California

                     

                    JMac will absolutely smash that course. There is nothing more to say. 👍

                    5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)


                    Yak-3 vs Spitfire

                       

                      JMac will absolutely smash that course. There is nothing more to say. 👍

                       

                      Too bad this is not the course he will be running 


                      Elite Jogger

                         

                        Too bad this is not the course he will be running 

                         

                        He’s running CIM and that is the course. Don’t ever question me. 💀

                        5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)


                        Elite Jogger

                          It would be funny if CIM reversed the course...the start line is the finish line...and finish line is the start line. It wouldn’t be such an attractive BQ course anymore Smile

                           

                          If I ran the London marathon from finish to start it wouldn’t make any diffiference to my time because it’s a true course 👍

                          5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            It would be funny if CIM reversed the course...the start line is the finish line...and finish line is the start line. It wouldn’t be such an attractive BQ course anymore Smile

                             

                            If I ran the London marathon from finish to start it wouldn’t make any diffiference to my time because it’s a true course 👍

                             

                            Hah!  I remember this discussion from 11 months ago.  Should we just jump to the rock climbing phase now?

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


                            Elite Jogger

                               

                              Hah!  I remember this discussion from 11 months ago.  Should we just jump to the rock climbing phase now?

                               

                              My post was more directed to Cal as I want to reduce him to an insecure wreck within the next 18 months. 👍

                              5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

                              Swim5599


                                The CIM course is tougher then it looks.  I was surprised how much it rolled.  The last 5 miles are awesome.  You can really press if you measured out the effort correctly the previous 21 miles.  Can’t wait to go back

                                HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04