2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 616 times)


Yak-3 vs Spitfire

    It would be funny if CIM reversed the course...the start line is the finish line...and finish line is the start line. It wouldn’t be such an attractive BQ course anymore Smile

     

    If I ran the London marathon from finish to start it wouldn’t make any diffiference to my time because it’s a true course 👍

     

    Ahh... All right - that probably explains why I have 2+ minutes faster PR than you for 50-54 AG. Plus, that PR is TRUE sub 2:50, not some regular 2:50+ . Come on old man - be thankful I didn't run one of those Revel courses Smile

     

    Btw, I would not mind to have battle of London (my wife would love to go to London) , but your country's biggest marathon is too unfriendly to outside World - so, doesn't seems like it could happen.


    Elite Jogger

      JT - Can you change my prediction for JMac from 2:38:33 to 2:37:33 at CIM. Thanks. 👍

      5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:50:43 (2019)

      JMac11


      Benevolent Leader

        Ha! My cycle is going well, and this course should be easier than Boston or NYC, but I don't think that's going to be a 7 minute PR!

         

        The course does look a little annoying because there are zero flat stretches for the entire race, but if most of these are 20 feet, then I'll be happy. I actually like having rollers because not only are you engaging different muscles all the time, but I like having something to focus on.

         

        I also agree with DW that the "reverse the course" is a silly concept.

         

        Good luck to Steve at NYC. Getting the unicorn of weather days, absolutely perfect.

        5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

         

        Next Race: California International Marathon (12/8/19)

          Duly noted for your JMac prediction Mikkey; I'll have to see about adding a row for that in the table   I think JMac is a shoe-in for sub 2:40...this will be the first fast course he'll run and as Cal has noted the weather is almost always good at CIM.  My prediction is 2:36:58.

           

          Great trash talking Cal & Mikkey, please continue!

          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

          Up next: Athens OH Marathon (April 19)


          Yak-3 vs Spitfire

            Ha! My cycle is going well, and this course should be easier than Boston or NYC, but I don't think that's going to be a 7 minute PR!

             

            JMac - You PR-ed in in every distanced you have raced this cycle - so, it's pretty safe bet you will PR at CIM too. How much who knows, but judging by your HM PR and hopefully good weather during the race, sub 2:40 is a given - I mean obviously not guaranteed, but I don't see how it can not happen. In my 7 years of running CIM I only had one year with non-PR weather - with 30+ miles winds and heavy rain. So, let's hope it will be another good weather year.

             

            I kind of disagree on Boston being harder course, if it's harder, maybe just a little bit - it has great running sections from mile 1 till mile 15-16 and from mile 21 till finish. Yes, 16-21 is pretty hard but I think you can be prepared for it with all the easier effort before that. Actually I had a PR race at 2014 Boston for almost 19 months (2:50:53) which I only beat after absolutely perfect cycle for 2015 CIM. I think the huge drawback getting a PR in Boston is its absolutely unpredictable weather (in 3 years of running Boston I didn't have anything close to weather I had for each of CIMs I have ran) and late start. I would say, add to Boston CIM's weather and 7am start and there will be plenty of PRs there giving the fact most people usually prepare for Boston really well.

             

            And yes, CIM's rolling hills nature makes it go rather quickly because it's not too boring - I remember when I ran Chicago I almost died of boredom, warm weather and zero crowd support for almost the whole second half of the race. You would think Chicago should have so much support for the while course considering the number of people in the city, but no - all I remember in the second half - some drums in China town part - that's all. But my family loves Chicago, so they are trying to make me run Chicago marathon again! Poor me Sad

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

               

              JMac

               

              I kind of disagree on Boston being harder course, if it's harder, maybe just a little bit - it has great running sections from mile 1 till mile 15-16 and from mile 21 till finish. Yes, 16-21 is pretty hard but I think you can be prepared for it with all the easier effort before that. 

               

              ...

               

               

              And yes, CIM's rolling hills nature makes it go rather quickly because it's not too boring - I remember when I ran Chicago I almost died of boredom, warm weather and zero crowd support for almost the whole second half of the race. You would think Chicago should have so much support for the while course considering the number of people in the city, but no - all I remember in the second half - some drums in China town part - that's all. But my family loves Chicago, so they are trying to make me run Chicago marathon again! Poor me Sad

              I think Boston's course is harder than CIM's, though not exponentially so.     The placement of the hills at Boston, 3/4s through the race, are much harder than CIM's structure, where I feel the steepest hill is the very first one, and then the course smooths out as you go.

               

              I also agree that the logistics are what make Boston so challenging - especially that wait in athlete's village.

              I think that if you took the Boston course, and plugged it into CIM, keeping everything else (i.e. - the typical CIM weather, the CIM pre-race logistics) you'd have a pretty fast race.

               

              [also worth noting that CIM and Boston both present the same challenge of it being VERY EASY to get sucked out too early, due to the downhill start and also just how many really fast people show up for those races]

               

              As for Chicago versus CIM - I think that, all other things held equal, Chicago is a MUCH faster course.  The big thing in Chicago is obviously the weather.   When you get weather like they had this year, it's just lightning fast.

               

              I didn't find Chicago boring at all - I thought there were just the right amount of turns to keep the course interesting - those turns served the similar function as the hills of CIM for me.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Andres1045


                I've never run CIM, but I have a hard time believing that fast people flock there because of the weather, and are okay giving up some time on a course that's harder than a flat course. Lots of fast-ish people here in Houston insist on doing it every year, despite training year round in flat terrain and getting good weather 80% of the time at the Houston marathon. And as far as the Houston marathon goes, assuming you live here, the logistics are as easy as it gets. There's no way CIM is easier for Houstonians from a logistics standpoint. CIM, like Boston, are fast courses assuming you execute correctly. They're not a screaming downhill course like the Utah ones, but they're still fast. I assume Boston can be faster, simply because it has a larger amount of drop, but I also assume it is significantly harder to execute well. I know that in my first Boston when I broke 3 for the first time, I had serious doubts that I would have been able to do it on that same day, with the same conditions on a flat course. I needed those last 5 miles of downhill. I also blew up miserably on the next two Boston's I ran, executing terribly.

                 

                Either way, JMac will destroy the course. I guess I'm not as confident in the "easy sub 2:40" predictions as others are for him, but I know he's going to do well. And honestly, I hope he doesn't quite break 2:40 so that he remains hungry and sticks around.

                 

                Cal - I like your strategy of push a little harder on the ups, and chill a bit on the downs. I've always done something similar that has worked well for me. I get that there are a lot of people that find consistent effort is the best strategy for them, but not for me.

                 

                My week:

                 

                [Is the Strava weekly generator broken?]

                 

                All super chill. I was totally destroyed by the half last Sunday. Much more than I expected to be. I didn't have much in me until I woke up Saturday. I managed a good 19 mile run Saturday, and finished the week with 53 miles. I'll get back to doing a workout this week, and see if I can't up the mileage a bit.

                Upcoming races: Jean Bouin 10k Nov 24 - Barcelona

                                            Houston Full January 2020

                Swim5599


                  Chicago s an awesome race.  Specially when your from there.  
                  The logistics for CIM are amazing.  That race is so well put together.  You go out to hard you will pay for it.  I passed a ton of women trying to OTQ from 20k on last year.  

                  my week 104.30

                  mon 10 8:35

                  tue AM 12 with 6x3:00 V02 power 5:20

                    Pm 10 with 5 mile HMP power tempo 6:03

                  wed 10 8:30

                  thurs 10 with strides 8:30

                  fri AM 12 with 5x8:00 just over T power 5:50

                  PM 10.05 with 5 HMP power tempo 6:01

                  sat 7 8:30

                  sun 23.25 as 80 min easy then 2x37:30 at MP power 6:15

                   

                  solid week.  Onward

                  HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    When I'm talking logistics, I'm referring to race day logistics, not to travel.  For example, I consider CIM's logistics to be much easier than Marine Corps Marathon, even though I live less than 5 miles from the start line of MCM, while CIM requires a full day's travel each way plus a hotel.

                     

                    In terms of race day ease, CIM is fantastic.  I've done the ADP program at Houston, and I found doing CIM in the open field was easier, from a race prep standpoint.  You just have to get into the corral so early at Houston.  No sitting in a heated bus until 20 minutes before.

                     

                    I also think CIM is a much safer bet, weather-wise, than Houston.  Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but CIM has better odds of great weather than Houston.

                     

                    Keep in mind too -I'm not saying that CIM is a slow course.  It is a fast course.  But I'd tip the hat to Chicago as faster, if you hold everything else equal.

                     

                    Also, CIM (especially in a USATF Championship year) has just huge depth.  Everyone shows up there to run fast and to work together to run fast.  Houston is stronger in terms of world class elite at the very front of the field.  But...CIM has much more depth in that US elite to sub-elite to BQ level.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    Andres1045


                      I understand that, darkwave. Makes sense. I brought up logistics specifically about the Houston runners. My point was Houston logistics are good enough that I can't imagine any gains from CIM logistics makes up for them having to fly to Sacramento and stay in a hotel. To me it's a huge bonus spending the night in your own bed.

                      Upcoming races: Jean Bouin 10k Nov 24 - Barcelona

                                                  Houston Full January 2020

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                        I understand that, darkwave. Makes sense. I brought up logistics specifically about the Houston runners. My point was Houston logistics are good enough that I can't imagine any gains from CIM logistics makes up for them having to fly to Sacramento and stay in a hotel. To me it's a huge bonus spending the night in your own bed.

                         

                        It's interesting, because I think there are pluses and minuses to hotel versus home for a race.  Obviously when you're at home, you don't have to deal with packing, traveling, finding your way around a strange room, etc.

                         

                        OTOH, I think there are benefits to checking into a hotel.  When I'm at home, I can never rest up quite as well the day before a race - there's just too much to be done around the house.  Going somewhere else and checking into a hotel forces me to take a break and just veg out.

                         

                        ***

                         

                        Going to drop off my week while I'm here.

                        49 miles, 16 "miles" of pool-running, and 1000 yards of swimming
                        M: DIY yoga and 8 "miles" pool-running.
                        T: 11 miles, including a track workout of 2x800, 1600, 2x800 in 2:59, 2:57, 5:58, 2:53, 2:49. Recoveries of 2:31-2:36 after 800s, 5:03 recovery after 1600. Followed with light leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                        W: DIY yoga, 8 miles very easy (8:58), drills and four hill strides. Then another mile to test race shoes (8:13)
                        Th: Upperbody weights/core and 8 "miles" pool-running.
                        F: 11 miles, including a 5K tempo on the track in 20:11 (6:35/6:29/6:24/0:46). Followed with 500 yards recovery swimming.
                        Sa: 8 miles very easy (8:40), drills and 4 hill strides and then light upper bodyweights and core, and DIY yoga
                        Su: 10.5 miles, split as first 3 easy (8:22), and last 7.5 moderate (7:00). Followed with some injury prevention work at gym and DIY yoga.

                         

                        Feeling better about my fitness - I think I'm peaking at just the right time. Those last 7.5 miles on Sunday felt like 7:20-30 pace, not 7:00 flat.  Weather is looking fairly good for Indy, if a bit cold (mid-20s at start).  If it stays that cold, I may go with tights instead of shorts.

                         

                        Friday morning was a bit more exciting than I'd like.  Around 4 am a tree first fell onto the corner of our bedroom (where we were at the time), but then, instead of crashing through split and fell to each side of our house.  House sustained some damage, but is fixable without too much effort and still inhabitable.  But we were very lucky.  (more details here for anyone who wants the full story, plus some pictures).

                         

                        As a result, I ended up showing up to the workout late, and only had time for 2 miles of jogging plus two strides before starting the tempo.  Whatever - I figured it was a good chance to experiment with a shorter warm-up..y'know, like most people do.  And...it might work pretty well, since I'm fresh from tapering and also had tons of adrenaline surging through me.

                         

                        Nope, felt stiff and awkward and unable to get going until about the third mile, when I finally felt ready to run fast.  So...confirmed (again) that I need a longer warm-up.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          DW: For some reason I was thinking you were running CIM; maybe it was all the talk about it. But Indy is less that a week away! Sheesh, I am really out of it. Anyway, I think you're setting up perfectly for it. That sounds like decent weather; I would love conditions that cold. Sorry to hear about the storm damage but at least your house is still livable. BTW, your house is exactly the same color as mine.

                           

                          Swim: Huge week, you are setting up really well for CIM. Will you travel to sea level a bit ahead of time to adjust before the race?

                           

                          Andres: Really strong running by you and it's great to see things coming together for you for a marathon cycle. You've always had great baseline fitness for the half and shorter distances and I think you have the potential for a really fast marathon time.

                           

                          Not much to report for me. PT is going well but still have a long way to go. I got in a couple of 10 milers this weekend, without major pain. Aerobically things are just in the toilet for me. It amazes me how fast I lose fitness .  Hopefully it will come back once I'm running more consistently.

                           

                          I've been thinking about future marathons and still would like to do Berlin, but need to get an AIMS course qualifier, so that comes down to either Boston or Chicago. Though my only Boston experience in 2017 was lousy race-wise, and I much prefer the Chicago course elevation-wise, I think I will go for Boston 2021 just to witness the showdown and meet the legends in person.  Next year I'm thinking Athens again in the spring and will try Detroit in the fall.

                          5K: 17:55 (2017)    HM: 1:23:57 (2016)    FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

                          Up next: Athens OH Marathon (April 19)


                          Yak-3 vs Spitfire

                            DW - I was surprised by your "low" mileage this week. Until I read you are running Indy next week. Awesome! I think you will do great!

                             

                            JTR - still kind of strange why you had that pain during the marathon - seriously, not sure how weak muscles can suddenly cause that kind of issues. But I hope you will be able to resolve it for a long term - and yes, hopefully some great people show up for Boston - one of them will be my wife Smile she wanted to go to Boston for so long Smile

                             

                            Swim - maaan... monster week - just like old style - 2015...Glad you are one of the people who don't attack CIM constantly - especially after you ran it - all other theoretics just making theories... Once again - everybody is very welcome to come and run this freakishly easy downhill course - 10 minutes PR is guaranteed - no previous training required!

                             

                            Andres - I remember your sub 3 in Boston - I think I passed you at that Newton hill and you looked really bad - that why I was surprised you still ran sub 3 Smile One day I might run Houston - too many people I know are talking about it Smile

                             

                            JMac - just do not do anything stupid - you should do great!

                             

                            Mikkey - it will take something special to make me insecure wreck. Especially after I start my full time job with DOE this coming Monday!!! You better start training at some point my friend - otherwise Boston will become a babies "massacre". Also, just start thinking about running CIM at some point - we need to resolve this "easy downhill course" argument somehow - if you are a man you should stand behind your "fake" claims  - will both will run the same easy course and let god decide who is more worthy... I will make sure you have a comfortable pillow under your head before the race day. Meanwhile, I promise to work on getting to London and beat your younger ass there too... 

                             

                            I ran my HM today and started pretty good run 6:45 first mile at really low HR but then things went downhill from there - mile 10 was the worst - 6:59 at LT effort - luckily I found some second wind - I think I just increased cadence significantly and due to that was able to finish under 1:30. Pretty slow time that puts my hopes for sub 3 in 5 weeks to non-realistic. But that is not a big deal - Boston 2021 is the goal and I am planning to have un-interrupted training towards that - where all the faster people will be the witnesses of my triumph over that Brit foreigner 

                             

                            My week:

                             

                            Mon - 6.8 @recovery (9:49)

                            Tue - 11.3 @ GA (8:31)

                            Wed - 12.5 @8:05 - 4mins faster/4mins steady + 6x(2 faster / 4 steady)

                            Thu - 14 @endurance (8:27)

                            Fri - 5 @recovery(9:22) am / 4 @recovery (9:10)

                            Sat - 6.5 @GA (8:15)

                            Sun - 2 @warmup / 13.1 @6:49 - 1:29:48 - 2.1 @cooldown

                             

                            Total: 77.6 miles


                            Yak-3 vs Spitfire

                              not sure wth

                              madisonrunner


                                JMac, you're certainly in PR shape but I'm with Andres here.  Sub 2:40 would be a great race and aiming for anything faster is probably being greedy.

                                 

                                I ran 67 this week with a 5 mile LT (5:36 pace) and a 20 mile long run (6:40s for first 15, dropped down to 6:10s for the last 5).  I'm glad CIM is still 5 weeks away as I think I'll really benefit from a couple more fast workouts.  The strength is there but the speed needs work.

                                 

                                Good luck this weekend DW!

                                Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Races:  CIM (12/8)