Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Problem Child
Jt I grew up at sea level. About 3 hours from the course. I’ll head down Saturday. Why go down earlier?
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Daniels has a chapter about altitude training, and suggests a week or more to acclimate to sea level prior to a longer race if you have been training at altitude. Partly to acclimate to a different breathing pattern with greater O2 concentration, partly to adapt to different humidity levels and weather. See page 142 of the 3rd edition. I've asked Swim this question as well since he trains at 7000 ft but not sure he ever answered...
2:52:16 (2018)
JT sorry I completely forgot to answer it. I usually go down 4 days early. To be honest the thing I notice is the pace feels faster then it is at sea level initially. I was out so slow the first 15k at CIM last year. Then I settled in at 6:10-6:15 pace and it actually felt so easy. You can really squeeze on the accelerator down the stretch at sea level in good conditions. I felt fantastic the last 10k and was running like 6:07 s at that point. Rosario will tell you if your fit your fit and the amount of time you spend down before the race means very little.
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
Dark wave. Stellar result given the stress prior to the race.
my week 106.35
mon 10 8:25
tue AM 12 with 6x3:00 at VO2 power (5:20)
Pm 10 with 5 miles at HMP power (6:02)
wed 10 8:31
thurs 10 with strides 8:30
fri AM 12.30 with 5x8:00 at just over T power (5:48)
Pm. 10 with 5 at HMP power 6:00
sat 7 8:25
sun 25 as 87 min easy then 2x40:00 at MP power 6:12
really solid week. JMAC to answer your question about being fried. My coach keeps track of the ramp rate so I don’t overextend. As long as I stay in target I can keep building off it. And we taper 2 weeks. Anything longer and I get super flat.
Mother of Cats
Interesting on altitude. Are there the same concerns for marathons as for shorter races? Since a marathon is done at a lower proportion of your maximal speed, I would think there would be less adjustment required. But I'll confess that I know very little about altitude training.
***
Race report from Richmond is here.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Swim - as usual - impressive - awesome combination of mileage and speedy workouts - I certainly wouldn't be able to handle that amount of quality per week - good for you...
My week - felt tired the whole week but managed to run the biggest mileage week of the year. 3 weeks till marathon.
Mon - 5 @recovery (9:10) AM / 4 @recovery (9:11) PM
Tue - 12.5 @GA (8:39)
Wed - 12.5 @endurance (8:17)
Thu - 12.3 @8:15 with 2x1600(6:02,6:01), 2x1200(5:47,5:48), 2x1000(5:37,5:41)
Fri - 6 @recovery (9:12) AM / 5 @recovery (9:04) PM
Sat - 11.3 @GA (8:28)
Sun - 23.6 @endurance (8:04)
Total: 92.4 miles
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
DW: Congrats and awesome result especially considering the circumstances. Rest up and get that shoulder better!
Swim: Impressive week! You are rolling right now!
Cal: Very strong looking week. Enjoy the taper!
JT; Sorry to hear that things are still not right. Hopefully they got to the bottom of the issue though.
Me: Kind of a lopsided week, but I ended yesterday with a a huge new 10K PR (well I haven't raced many 10k's) yesterday running a 34:30.6 as we finally got some cooler weather down here in Florida In fact today hasn't gotten above 55 degrees! Race yesterday was a challenge though for the first half as we had a headwind of 15-20 from the northwest, but then I was able to really hammer the last 2.5 miles downwind running a huge negative split (even split the last 2 in 5:24 and 5:17)! I ran with 2 others (which helped pacing) and I led the race for ~5.7 miles, but still actually lost the race by ~5 seconds as the guy just behind me decided to run sub 5 pace over the last quarter of a mile or so. Seemed like he had much more in the tank. Anyways, very encouraged with the result as I still did that inside an 18 mile LR with minimal taper for the latter part of the week! Also FINALLY broke out my Next % shoes and I can say they are the real deal. They feel extremely weird at slower pacing, but then somehow click at race pace. I never felt like I was maxed out effort wise until perhaps that last 1/2 mile in the race. Almost felt like I was running a high-end tempo run. The shoes will be going back in storage until my planned half in 2 weeks This race also gives me some much needed confidence boost with 7 weeks to go!
Other thing to note is that I came down with a nasty stomach bug Sunday and Monday which did limit some of my usual early weekly mileage and shortened up my workout on Wednesday. Maybe that helped get my legs fresher for the 10K yesterday?
Monday: 13.2 EZ (7:56)
Tues: 7.2 EZ (8:14)
Wednesday: AM: 5E + 2T + 1T + 800i + 400R + 4 X 200R + 2.6E, PM 5:5 EZ (8:00)
Thursday: 10.20 EZ (8:16)
Friday: 6.2 EZ + strides (7:56)
Saturday: 4 up, 10K race in 34:30 (5:30), 8 EZ -> moderate progression (7:53): 18.2 Total
Sunday: 10.2 EZ (8:13)
Total: 84.1 miles
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
DW - congrats!
JT - sucks that it's stagnating. Be patient.
Me - 70 last week and 74 this week. My long run of 21.5 this morning went very well (6:40s and then the last 6 in the 6:10s or so). I also hit a 5x1200m VO2 max at 5:10-5:15 pace. I won't be going after sub 2:30 at CIM but I do think I have a decent shot at a PR.
Nimmals - For your 2k repeats, what pace is that for you? It seems slower than VO2 max and a really short duration for LAT. Any thoughts yet on a plan for CIM? I may be too slow for you depending on your goal.
Calbears - taper time! Or are you going to do another up week?
Weather - congrats on the 10K PR, and in the middle of an 80+ mile week. Really outstanding. I'm guessing your wind was from the same storm that indirectly affected my race. And...so you had a stomach bug limiting your mileage early in the week, and you still got 20 miles in over Monday/Tuesday?
Madison - solid steady training. Looking forward to what you can do at CIM.
JTReeves - I had missed on the previous page that you were stalled in your rehab. I'm sorry, that sucks. Soft tissue injuries are so fickly in how they can heal quickly, or linger frustratingly.
My week for posterity.
41 miles, 16 "miles" of pool-running, and a buncha rehab exercises (just assume the rehab exercises were daily).M: 7 "miles" pool-running with belt. T: 8 miles, including a track workout of 4x800 in 3:02, 3:02, 3:01, 3:02. Recoveries of 2:07-2:19. Followed with some light leg injury prevention work.W: 4 miles very easy (8:50) plus 2 uphill strides.Th: 3 "miles" pool-running (no belt), followed by biceps curls at the gym using the machine that stabilizes one's shoulders, and some core work. Then got a cortisone shot in the shoulder.F: 2 miles very easy (9:09) plus drills and two uphill strides.Sa: 1200m warm-up, and then Richmond Marathon in 3:03:37.Su: 6 "miles" pool-running with belt.
Thanks DW! My run on Monday was probably one that I should have stopped early on as it was a suffer fest and then I ran later than normal after feeling much better on Tuesday. Plus I usually like to front load my weeks a bit mileage wise
Hey Cinnamon! Good to see you again.
JT: I'm sorry to hear that. Do what you can. Running just a few days a week is still better than none. I hope you get healed soon. You're such a nice guy!!
Even if you all don't asterisk your race times - I add on about 90 sec to a half and 3 min to a full to your times to compare with me running in my 2012 technology
Cal and Mikkey are for sure going to have to run in similar shoes for the race for it to have any meaning.
Congrats on another race DW
Swim: CIM is going to be your race
Madison: re: 2k - likely CV pace
CIMers ... my recommendation for post-race is The Shady Lady. Best cocktails in Sac. Not too far from the finish either. And they'll still be serving brunch after you finish. Very cool decor and ambiance. Cannot go wrong.
M: 6 mi hilly, easy effort in AM (8:02) // 4 mi in PM (8:18) T: 15 min w/u, 10 x 400 (1:21) with 400 full rec (2:42), 15 min c/d (Daniel’s ‘R’-esque) W: 30 min recovery TM T: 60 min easy TM F: 0 S: 17 mi (7:55) S: 55 min (8:02)
Interesting on altitude. Are there the same concerns for marathons as for shorter races? Since a marathon is done at a lower proportion of your maximal speed, I would think there would be less adjustment required. But I'll confess that I know very little about altitude training. *** Race report from Richmond is here.
DW - I really enjoy reading your blog/race reports - this one may have been my favorite though. You overcame a lot of craziness in those last two weeks to get to the start line; showing so much gratitude along the way. Love that attitude! You ran a very impressive race given all the recent stress. Congrats on a great cycle. Rest up and can't wait to see what you can do next year.
RIP Milkman
DW - first, congrats for getting out there. I know it's not a PR, but a moose mug is still a great accomplishment. I think the wind probably hurt you more than you think.
Swim - sounds like you know your own body so I can't question it! Another great week.
JT - I echo what DW said about soft tissue injuries. Right when they happen, my first thought is always "is this a 2 day thing or a 2 month thing?" Just keep at it with exercises and hopefully it'll come around.
CIMers - how are you tapering down?
Nimmals - what's your goal for this race?
Weather - congrats again on a great race, and thank the weather gods for allowing you to get a peak into your fitness. If you can get a new PR in the half, it's go time for sub 2:40.
Madison - good to hear you still think you can PR after a tough cycle!
Brew - you already know I'm not a fan of the 10K but I seem to be in the minority.
Me - Legs felt pretty tired in both quality runs this week, which must mean I'm ready to taper. I was able to hit my T paces on Wednesday but just felt way too difficult at the start. My long run I also consciously tried to start at MP+20% (a la Pfitz), as I've been taking too look to get to that range lately. It led to a good long run where I was able to stay sub 7 for the majority of it.
Most importantly, I want to celebrate how great of a cycle I've had! After too many injuries in the Boston cycle, this one went just about damn near perfect. I only lost one single day out of the whole thing due to some tendinitis. Additionally, I was finally about to get my weekly average up closer to where I think you need for success at this distance. Both for Boston and NYC, I averaged right around 60 miles per week for the cycle. This cycle, I was able to get up to 73 miles. That's a huge jump in weekly averages and I hope I can reap the rewards in 3 weeks.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
M: Rest and recovery
Tue: 8 easy w/ 4 x 30s
Wed: Workout - 5 x 3min fast w/ 2min easy, 4min easy, 4 x 1min fast/1min easy (12+ total)
Thurs - Unscheduled rest day due to mild head cold/bad seafood
Fri - 6 easy
Sat - 19.6 long run w/ 20 x 1min moderate effort every 5minutes starting at 20
Sun - 10.8 easy recovery w/ 4 x 20s hills
This week will be last big week before CIM. Speaking of, anyone want to plan a group shakeout on Saturday? Or meeting for burgers/beers post race?
Brew - It sounds like you decided to skip the 10k as a race? But what I'm not sure is if you are planning to still do the 14 w/10 at GMP on that day? I may have something off, but you've already done one w/10 at GMP, and you'll have another this week. So the one on Thanksgiving would be your third? If that's the case, I wouldn't use that as an excuse to not race the 10k. I'd think the 10k race would do you a little better than one more 10 @ GMP workout for your last hard effort. But if you decide to get the 10 @ GMP in that day, I wouldn't use the race either for that. The 10 @ GMP really should be done as a continuous run without any breaks, even like a water fountain break. I'm not sure if you get much value out of it with breaking it up and doing 6 miles of it during the race and 4 before/after.
JMac - You're on fire. Try to convince yourself your racing Houston, not CIM though. You're just taking a couple of cut back weeks coming up. That's it. Maybe that way you don't start to get all those crazy phantom injuries right before your race.
Cal - That's massive mileage. And it looks like you still have some pop in those legs with the Thursday run. I'm no longer believing you're in borderline sub 3 shape.
Swim - What's the CIM goal? Do you have a number in mind? Sub 2:40?
Jay - Same. Racing CIM?
Weather - That's an awesome 10k. Glad you finally got some relief from the heat.
My week:
Overall I'm happy with the week. I didn't get in as good of speed work as I would have liked (two mini treadmill workouts on Monday afternoon (6x800) and Thu (3x mile)), but the mileage is still slowly creeping up. And I did my long run on tired legs, and kept an overall good effort throughout, or at least until the end. I helped a friend get in some faster paced miles at the end, but came up against a wall with 2 miles to go. But it was fine in my mind, since I only had planned on 20 miles that morning.
66 total
Mon: AM - 5.37 @ 8:28; PM - 4.58 @ 7:10
Tue: 10.17 @ 8:09
Wed: 5.29 @ 8:53
Thu: 5 @ 7:08
Fri: 10.8 @ 7:46
Sat: 22.3 @ 7:21
Sun: 3.1 @ 9:10
Upcoming races: Boston