2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 638 times)

Nimmals


     

     

    Nimmals - For your 2k repeats, what pace is that for you?  It seems slower than VO2 max and a really short duration for LAT.  Any thoughts yet on a plan for CIM?  I may be too slow for you depending on your goal.

     

    Madison, its 89-91% VO2 Max sometimes slower depending on feel. I posted a great write up about it before. One last big week  then one big workout before slug mode. Plan is off today, Im trying to set an example for a forumite who never takes days off .

     

    11/19 8x 2k tomorrow

    11/25 4x 2k, 6x 1k

     

    Darkwave Congrats on the awesome race result. You gave it your best, so it's a win.

     

    Weather congrats on the 10K PR. That's a solid time. Headwinds suck, ruined my weekend highlight.

     

    JMAC I'm not phased by the temporary non-success that was the Truth Run. I'm going to still go with big workouts to force the fitness at least to keep laziness from taking hold. If I don't go sub 2:30 its not end of the world. I still get to try for London and later Berlin. For CIM goal is to go out at 5:40 and keep the power band at the 5:37-5:40 level through 16 then when it flattens out run 5:45s. So I'm positive splitting the course, it suits my style to front load  I have power in the hills but not on the flats I tend to Rockabye, get dreamy eyed, bored and fall a sleep which leads to slowing down. But the rolling  first half sparks my style.

     

    Swim, Heck yeah brother! That's a massive week.

     

    Cinnamon, Nice job this week on the bread and butter workout. I love back to basics, they helps you focus on little things we often overlook during marathon ramp ups.

     

    Cals, Awesome week. Nice way to peak for CIM. PM me about shoes.

     

    JT sorry to hear that you're still out of sorts. Do the requisite work to strengthen those glutes. Run with your ass. Do lots of hip bridges with weights. Incline, flat just lots of hip bridges and goblet single leg squats. 1st 5 minutes of each run mind your ass. Meaning make a mental connection to squeeze your glutes. Imagine a credit card between your ass cheeks. Keep that sucker tight and dont let it swipe. Because every time you don't use your ass it swipes and your crotch gets charged.

     

    I had a temporary non-success @ Truth Run this weekend but because my watch said I started the day with119 miles on my legs in the last 7 days 27 last Sunday. For Strava my strava watch (suunto) just logs. I run workouts off Garmin.

     

    Truth run called for

    4 mi Warm  Up (8:22, 8:04, 7:39, 7:27)

    6 mi @ 5:40 (5:49, 5:41, 5:53, 5:53, 5:54, 6:14) Up hill into 20 MPH wind

    4 mi @ 6:15 (6:27, 6:24, 6:14, 6:12) @ 2mi into wind 2mi  with back to win.

    6mi @ 5:30 (5:51, 5:41, 5:49, 6:00,6:00, 6:10)

    2 mi Cool Down (10:57, 9:26)

     

    What I learned from the workout was if I get a tail wind at CIM, I will succeed.   It was the only time I hit my goals.

     

     

    Date Type   Description Distance Time Pace Link
    11/17/2019 Run   Cool Down 3.0 mi 30:14 9:59
    11/17/2019 Race   XC 8k race 4.8 mi 28:37 5:45
    11/17/2019 Run   Warm Up 2.0 mi 23:52 11:49
    11/16/2019 Run   Truth Run 22.0 mi 2:28:23 6:45
    11/15/2019 Run   8 mi easy 8.0 mi 1:11:47 8:58
    11/14/2019 Run   Mona Fartlek 10.2 mi 1:28:32 8:43
    11/13/2019 Run   16 mi Progression 16.0 mi 2:06:58 7:56
    11/13/2019 Run   Shakeout 5.5 mi 52:17 9:29
    11/12/2019 Run   7x 2k, 2x 400m 15.0 mi 1:58:34 7:56
    11/11/2019 Run   PM shake out 6.0 mi 1:06:54 11:07
    11/11/2019 Run   10 mi Easy 10.1 mi 1:26:48 8:35
    Brewing Runner


    CIM FanBoi

      10k currently thinking of doing it as a race. I'd be going for a 6:30/mi (4:02/km) pace. It's pretty flat with only 88 ft elevation gain according to their course map (Map My Run) on an out and back course. Last year's results show a few people in this pace and it would be good enouhg for a top 10 finish.

       

      andres: What you outlined was my thought process. Race or 10M with the race possibly providing more feedback going into CIM than a 14 mile run. Possibly grab some water just to pracice that a little along with the race atmosphere and holding pace.

       

      jmac why don't you like the 10K? I thought you woud just with all the hard runs you do. Oh and your last run was fucking BAD ASS to see. My taper starts this week I guess.

       

      JT I confess to not owning the JD book. I rented it from the library one time. Thanks for the comments on my training. It really feels like everything is lining up nicely and training has gone very well for CIM 2019. In my head I'm still the 3:56 one time marathoner who can't fathom how someone ran the same course in 3:05 and now I'm aiming to go faster with a lot of confidence going in.

       

      swim interesting you say the pace feels faster than it is. I recall at Chicago (aiming for 3:05) it seemed like everyone was sprinting at the start and I was in their way. 106 miles!?!?!?! DAMN SON!

       

      dwave Interesting look at altitude. I wouldn't think of signing up for a half marathon and showing up to the course two days early. For a 5K in Sacramento I might just show up the day of if I can get my bib before the race and do a shake out/warm up.

       

      Jay where are you staying for CIM? I'm driving so I could maybe do a little jog depending on distance and pace but I wasn't planning on showing up until later in the afternoon and I'm staying in Folsom. I don't run in the busy cities much but I believe there is a river path in Sacramento that would be a good spot.

       

      cim food and drinks at Sauce could be good. It's BBQ. A beer nerd friend mentioned it to me a few years ago and it's also close to downtown. My only concern is getting back to my hotel and depends on my wife coming with me or not. I'd have to drive to the finish, get on the bus then ride to the start which negates getting a hotel 1-2 miles from the start and 30-45 minutes closer to home with free late checkout and shuttle from the finish. I don't know how late that shuttle goes. My wife likes brunch so if she comes she might tolerate stinky online friends. She's met some one time before at CIM. I AM up for a group meet if it's possible, but there is always another time. I might try and tuck in behind some tall Russian dude for the start since calbears seems like he'll be near me.

       

      taper: Is it here already? 60 miles with an afternoon run Saturday of unset distance and two workouts 4x1.5 mile in potential rain, and 10M again. Race outfit has been 90% decided on. 

       

      My Week:

       

      Tuesday was okay but I had to stop the last 2 mile short due to stomach issues and couldn't make it to a bathroom. Second time it's happened. I think it was the dinner roll I ate an hour before the run so I won't be eating dinner rolls before any upcoming races. Also might have been lots of water I drank that day mixing in.

      Wednesday was a good release from roads and just having fun with some climbing mixed in. when I got to the top I thought "well that was stupid I have to come down this" and it's not a smooth trail. Didn't die.

      Thursday went nice. Aim was 6:50 and I held it there. Faster felt uncomfortable. Gel at marathon mile 2 and 7 to see if 30 minutes worked for CIM. Had what felt like hunger pains in my stomach leading up to mile 7 and those went away after I had a gel. Full race prep with 4 gels and arm warmers. Yelled at a car in the crosswalk and realized I had a lot of energy left over for having just finished my workout.

      Saturday 20 had hills starting around mile 6. Probably a good mental run. Focused on what I ate and drank for breakfast along with what time it was. No stomach issues, just stopped to pee cuz I didn't want to hold it. I didn't feel like I'd run 20 miles a few hours later and felt like I could just run the rest of my weekly miles that afternoon. Seriously recalling being on the couch for previous long runs of this distance. Other than some tightness in the calves after I stopped running I felt like I'd jogged a 5 miler.

      Sunday was just an easy LRS run with chocolate milk and a RB who wanted more than 4 miles.

       

      highest week this year and this cycle. 1-2 miles short of lifetime highest week. I guess I'm due for a taper soon.

      Average 56.73 miles for this cycle. Had some stomach sickness (found the cause was a water bottle not being cleaned) a few times that shortened training weeks. Just like jmac it's gone well for me overall for the second half of the cycle including the training weather.

       

      Day Miles Description
      Mon 8 easy
      Tue 9.21 3x2 mile.
      Wed 6.58 trail
      Thu 14 10 @ GMP
      Fri 8.11 easy
      Sat 20 hilly in the middle
      Sun 5.59 uphill/downhill
      Total 71.5  

      1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

      5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

      10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

      Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

      Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

      Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

      *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

       

      2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

       


      Yak-3 vs Spitfire

        I might try and tuck in behind some tall Russian dude for the start since calbears seems like he'll be near me.

         

        If you wanna do that, you have to look for a short-ish fat dude, because that's how I look like - 5' 9" and 166 lbs.

         

        I would also try to run a little bit faster than 6:50 for your last 10 miler @MP this week, just a little bit - that's how I ran it when I first broke sub 3, though I ran Los Angeles which is a little harder than CIM. And if you often run sub 8 pace at sub 130 HR and your MP HR at about 165-167, you are in a great shape for sub 3, you should be really confident about that - just keep the steady pace from the start, do not start too fast.

        Full - 2:48:35 (12/15 - CIM) *

                 2:50:58 (04/14 - Boston) **

                 2:53:02 (03//14 - Los Angeles) ***

                 2:53:58 (10/13 - Chicago) ****

        * - CIM course is not approved by Mikkey

        ** - downhill courses are not approved by Mikkey

        *** - California courses are not approved by Mikkey

        **** - flat, totally fine - approved by Mikkey

        Brewing Runner


        CIM FanBoi

           

          If you wanna do that, you have to look for a short-ish fat dude, because that's how I look like - 5' 9" and 166 lbs.

           

          I would also try to run a little bit faster than 6:50 for your last 10 miler @MP this week, just a little bit - that's how I ran it when I first broke sub 3, though I ran Los Angeles which is a little harder than CIM. And if you often run sub 8 pace at sub 130 HR and your MP HR at about 165-167, you are in a great shape for sub 3, you should be really confident about that - just keep the steady pace from the start, do not start too fast.

           

          5'8 160. You just might be the perfect drafting partner. I'll be wearing a light blue shirt with orange ECLIPSE RUNNING on it. Say hi if you see me.

          I might give that a shot. I think I did something along those lines for 2016 and switched from a 3:20 to a 3:15 after the last 10M workout.  Pushing 6:45 gets tough, but it's the last workout. "last one fast one" right? I'm wondering about that heart rate. It seems to be low. Almost as if I'm either REALLY healthy, or the cold dry air makes the watch read low. Marathon has typically held mid 160s and 170+ starts entering a danger zone I haven't historically, other than Mt. Charleston in April, been able to hold in any marathon for long. We shall see how it goes on race day. Maybe I'm able to hammer down on the last 10K and have a cushion on sub 3.

          1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

          5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

          10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

          Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

          Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

          Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

          *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

           

          2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

           

          JMac11


          Benevolent Leader

            Andres - thanks. I'm doing my best on the no phantom injury front. I definitely like keeping my mileage up for this first week of the taper (85-90%), never sure how folks tapered down to 80%. I have to follow exactly how you said it.

             

            I think your long runs have been the most impressive thing you've done all cycle, it seems like you've nailed almost every single one. If only we can get the Vaporfly situation sorted out for you, you're all set 

             

            Nimmals - how is your taper going to look coming from that sort of mileage? It's going to be interesting to see how you race CIM. 2:30 is a hell of a barrier to get through.

             

            Brew - just don't see the point of it. Sure you can snag a PR, but it feels too close to race day for me that you're jeopardizing the marathon, which is the true goal. Plus, even if you feel you recover just fine, it's not a great workout in general that close to the race. It's too non-specific. I feel like the final 10 days of marathon taper is sacred where you shouldn't be doing anything even remotely that hard. If I were to race a 10K, the last time I would do it is 14 days out.

            5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: TBD


            Elite Jogger

               

               

              JT: I'm sorry to hear that.  Do what you can. Running just a few days a week is still better than none. I hope you get healed soon. You're such a nice guy!!

               

              Even if you all don't asterisk your race times - I add on about 90 sec to a half and 3 min to a full to your times to compare with me running in my 2012 technology    

               

               

               

               

              They say that Dave Grohl is the nicest guy in rock...and we say that JT is the nicest guy on this forum!  I probably have the first asterisk VF Moose Mug, but at least it was on a legit course. 😁

               

              JT - Sorry to hear about the lack of running and I hate biking as well and refuse to do it. I don’t mind the elliptical machine and think that’s one of the best cross training in place of running. I’ve done an hour on it in the past with some at MP HR and was shattered after it and covered in sweat! That’s the machine I’d use again if I got injured during a marathon cycle.

               

              Weatherboy - Congrats! Very impressive new 10k PR. 👍

               

              Slammin - This will be exciting to see if you can get under 2:30. You are obviously in fantastic shape!

               

              Swim - Just to let you know that I’ve got Rob Moose’s email address to hand and that he still does the mugs. 😉

               

              Brew - I personally think that the fat dude should be trying to keep up with you. 👍

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              Nimmals


                Mikkey Thank you, If all goes well and Madison feels sub 2:30 is doable??? I'm hoping we can team up and form a dynamic duo. Last year I went for 2:30 and failed was a little miffed at the course profile now that i know the course I think I can fix past issues.

                 

                JMAC My taper is essentially train and Race through thanksgiving weekend and shut it down the Sunday before so i have one last big workout next Tuesday 4x 2k, 6x 1k, 2x 400m. Then rest of week should look like this:

                 

                Sunday 16 miles Easy in Hills

                Monday 10 miles easy

                Tuesday with 4x 2k, 6x 1k, 2x 400M .

                Wednesday 10 miles easy

                Thursday  5 mile race

                Friday OFF\6 miles easy (based on feel)

                Sat 12 miles Easy in Hills

                 

                Sun 7 mi w/ XC 5k Race

                Monday OFF/ 6 miles easy

                Tuesday with 2x 2k, 2x 1k Lazy Becky mode.

                Wednesday OFF

                Thursday 7 mi w/ Burn Bracket

                Friday OFF

                Sat 3 mi shakeout

                Sun Race


                Yak-3 vs Spitfire

                  Mikkey

                  ....

                  Last year I went for 2:30 and failed was a little miffed at the course profile now that i know the course I think I can fix past issues.

                   

                   

                   

                  Nimmals - not sure what you are talking about... How is it possible for you, highly professional runner, to fail on an easy downhill course which is even non-legit according to followers of Sebastian Coe... Maybe your will just weak? 

                  Full - 2:48:35 (12/15 - CIM) *

                           2:50:58 (04/14 - Boston) **

                           2:53:02 (03//14 - Los Angeles) ***

                           2:53:58 (10/13 - Chicago) ****

                  * - CIM course is not approved by Mikkey

                  ** - downhill courses are not approved by Mikkey

                  *** - California courses are not approved by Mikkey

                  **** - flat, totally fine - approved by Mikkey

                  Brewing Runner


                  CIM FanBoi

                     

                    Brew - I personally think that the fat dude should be trying to keep up with you. 👍

                    I'll see what I can do, but if he goes for my snack packs (Maurten gels) I'm going to put a kick in and drag him along. 

                    1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                    5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                    10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                    Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                    Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                    Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                    *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                     

                    2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

                     

                    JMac11


                    Benevolent Leader

                      Now I have to ask too - how exactly does one fail at CIM? Is it running too fast early on, similar to Boston? Or is it you're just not aware of the rolling hills and that costs you?

                       

                      Just want to make sure there isn't any sort of strategy I should be aware of for the course.

                      5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: TBD


                      Yak-3 vs Spitfire

                        I'll see what I can do, but if he goes for my snack packs (Maurten gels) I'm going to put a kick in and drag him along. 

                         

                        The fat dude is really unsophisticated and doesn't even know what Maurten gel is and why anybody would need that - and definitely not planning using it. The fat dude went through Soviet system when you eat what you have and not what you want (non-GMA of course) - so, he is not as "sensitive" to different stuff as those who are were raised and born by capitalism.

                         

                        But, yes, I would not count on the fat dude - first, because he just had one 3 month training cycle this year and your training and workouts look absolutely on a different level than the fatty's. Plus, the fat dude's goal is to kick that guy's from the big island ass in 17 months - so, no pressure for him for this CIM.

                        Full - 2:48:35 (12/15 - CIM) *

                                 2:50:58 (04/14 - Boston) **

                                 2:53:02 (03//14 - Los Angeles) ***

                                 2:53:58 (10/13 - Chicago) ****

                        * - CIM course is not approved by Mikkey

                        ** - downhill courses are not approved by Mikkey

                        *** - California courses are not approved by Mikkey

                        **** - flat, totally fine - approved by Mikkey

                        Nimmals


                           

                          Nimmals - not sure what you are talking about... How is it possible for you, highly professional runner, to fail on an easy downhill course which is even non-legit course... Maybe your will just weak? 

                           

                           Cals, Cals Your English again, it always gets you misunderstood  I think you mean highly unprofessional. That's a much more indicative description of me and my processes

                          But yeah you got  me there Cals, Thats right Cals I didnt fail, it was a temporary non-success. My bladder failed me and i cut the bitch off I'll be wearing pink briefs. There will be no issues this year now that I'm an eunuch. If I didn't have to stop and pee after mile 16. I'd have run 2:30. I was running with Michele and she went 2:30.  Drinking Nuun for the first time ever.... I went to the bathroom and couldn't get back on pace. That may have been a mental fart but it didnt lack mental toughness. This old Fart will get it right in a couple days. Plus I tried to run without using gels which was a bad idea. (wait excuses are a sign of mental weakness)

                          Last year was a test run. So don't try to rile me I'm too fired up.

                           

                          Today's workout 8x 2k 16.5 miles on the track required zero mental toughness

                          8x 2k @ 6:58, 6:48, 6:50, 6:43, 6:52, 6:54, 6:49, 6:36
                          2x 400m @ 1:14, 1:11

                          Pequa Peacocks

                          Peacock

                          Brewing Runner


                          CIM FanBoi

                             

                            Plus, the fat dude's goal is to kick that guy's from the big island ass in 17 months

                             

                            I can't wait to be sitting at my desk and digitally watching this. It almost needs it's own thread. Oh and your training has ALWAYS looked next level to me.

                             

                             

                            jack I'd guess people fail at CIM for going out too fast AND not taking into account just how much of the course is rolling hills. Darkwave said it beat her up more than others and she has run it twice that I'm aware of. People just might look at it being the #2 Boston qualifier, a net downhill, and historically good weather, and just go balls out from the start. After watching the video I linked again it seems like you're going uphill even when you're going down in elevation.

                             

                            nimmals you're racing a 5K a week before CIM AND doing 2K repeats? What is Lazy Becky mode?

                            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                            Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                            Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                            *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                             

                            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

                             


                            Elite Jogger

                               

                              The fat dude is really unsophisticated and doesn't even know what Maurten gel is and why anybody would need that - and definitely not planning using it. The fat dude went through Soviet system when you eat what you have and not what you want (non-GMA of course) - so, he is not as "sensitive" to different stuff as those who are were raised and born by capitalism.

                               

                              But, yes, I would not count on the fat dude - first, because he just had one 3 month training cycle this year and your training and workouts look absolutely on a different level than the fatty's. Plus, the fat dude's goal is to kick that guy's from the big island ass in 17 months - so, no pressure for him for this CIM.

                               

                              I used Maurten gels at London this year and planning to use them again in future races.....so you’d better start getting used to them as I don’t want this to be yet another excuse when I beat you at Boston.

                              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                              cinnamon girl


                                Now I have to ask too - how exactly does one fail at CIM? Is it running too fast early on, similar to Boston? Or is it you're just not aware of the rolling hills and that costs you?

                                 

                                Just want to make sure there isn't any sort of strategy I should be aware of for the course.

                                 

                                I've not raced CIM but I have ran many miles on the course since I used to live on it. The rolling hills you will be fine if you start with normal controlled effort and let the pace adjust itself. I think what can get people at CIM (and well, every other race) is their ego. But CIM even more so since they're all hyped up because its a fast course, great conditions (except the rare case), and the fast competition - and all of their 'supporters' are expecting them to nail it big. Keep that under control - and have a calm yet determined focus - and I'm sure you'll have a great race. On the other hand, if you're willing to risk a 'fail' - and CIM there's no reason not to - go big from the gun!

                                Be your own inspiration