2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 287 times)

JMac11


    DW - I saw you posted in the other thread about cold weather mittens. What do you do for upper 30s and rain, which is about the worst conditions I think you can run in. I can't seem to keep my hands warm no matter what I do. I ran last night in those conditions, and it was miserable after about 5 miles. It also creeps into my wrists and forearms, where rain drops feel like someone is stabbing me. I've read using Bag Balm or Vaseline works for folks, or latex gloves either under their mittens or on top of gloves.

    5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

     

    Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

    weatherboy80


      For me any decent kind of rain from just about freezing up to about 50 degrees (especially with a headwind) is worse than anything else I can imagine. I'll certainly take a crisp and cold 15 degree run over that!

      5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        DW - I saw you posted in the other thread about cold weather mittens. What do you do for upper 30s and rain, which is about the worst conditions I think you can run in. I can't seem to keep my hands warm no matter what I do. I ran last night in those conditions, and it was miserable after about 5 miles. It also creeps into my wrists and forearms, where rain drops feel like someone is stabbing me. I've read using Bag Balm or Vaseline works for folks, or latex gloves either under their mittens or on top of gloves.

         

        Latex gloves under real mittens have worked best for me.  My sticking point in those conditions is that I need to use handwarmers in the upper 30s, but they won't work under latex gloves (since not enough air flow to activate the charcoal) and they don't work when wet.

         

        At Boston 2018, I wore latex gloves under thick convertible gloves/mittens that I had Scotchgarded, with handwarmers tucked into the mitten pocket.  I had hoped that this combination would keep my hands dry, and that the handwarmers would still work, being somewhat protected from the rain while still having some air flow.  Nope.  Gloves/mittens got soaked through, handwarmers quit working, and then my hands froze even though they were dry.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

          For me any decent kind of rain from just about freezing up to about 50 degrees (especially with a headwind) is worse than anything else I can imagine. I'll certainly take a crisp and cold 15 degree run over that!

           

          I got smart after Boston, and bought a cycling rain coat, on the theory that those guys know how to dress for exerting oneself at a medium effort in the rain for several hours.

           

          It was a good decision - running in cold rain is a thousand times better in that jacket.  The back flap that hangs over one's butt looks a bit odd on a runner, but works surprisingly well for keeping my rear dry.  Mine is made by Sugoi, but I'm sure any of the major cycling brands would work.

           

          There's a common theme here, which is sometimes gear from other sports (snowboarding mittens, cycling rain coats) works better than the running stuff.

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          Andres1045


             

            Latex gloves under real mittens have worked best for me.  My sticking point in those conditions is that I need to use handwarmers in the upper 30s, but they won't work under latex gloves (since not enough air flow to activate the charcoal) and they don't work when wet.

             

            At Boston 2018, I wore latex gloves under thick convertible gloves/mittens that I had Scotchgarded, with handwarmers tucked into the mitten pocket.  I had hoped that this combination would keep my hands dry, and that the handwarmers would still work, being somewhat protected from the rain while still having some air flow.  Nope.  Gloves/mittens got soaked through, handwarmers quit working, and then my hands froze even though they were dry.

             

            For Boston I had the brilliant idea of wearing my normal $2 cotton gloves under my latex gloves. Then I had the end of the sleeves of my jacket over the gloves so water wouldn't get in. The thinking was that the latex would keep the water out and trap the heat. I guess it was because every other part of me was so miserable, but it wasn't until around mile 23 that I realized that the cheap cotton gloves were soaked. Tons of water somehow got in. My hands were numb.

             

            And thanks, by the way, for the info on Cherry Blossom! I'm even more excited.

            Upcoming races:  I dunno.

            slingrunner


              My hands get very cold, rain or not, on any run under 50.  I've found that the best strategy is tucking an arm warmer mostly in my mittens.  In general I've found arm warmers to be an extremely versatile piece of running gear for training or races.

               

              I've hit the treadmill for my last 2 runs.  Yesterday's 11 miler was OK, but on Tuesday's 12 miler I just couldn't take the boredom, and I split it into 3 four mile chunks, with probably 50 minutes rest in between total.  I know it's better to run all at once, but any thoughts on if it really matters doing that once in a while?

              5k- 18:55 (2018)    10K- 39:04 (2017)    Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)

              finbad


                DW - I saw you posted in the other thread about cold weather mittens. What do you do for upper 30s and rain, which is about the worst conditions I think you can run in. I can't seem to keep my hands warm no matter what I do. I ran last night in those conditions, and it was miserable after about 5 miles. It also creeps into my wrists and forearms, where rain drops feel like someone is stabbing me. I've read using Bag Balm or Vaseline works for folks, or latex gloves either under their mittens or on top of gloves.

                 

                Just above freezing with rain is a type of weather that I feel I can confidently comment on. I found that trying to avoid getting wet hands just doesn't work for me, anything waterproof just ends up full of freezing sweat and rain run-off. Neoprene gloves are my favourite, you can end up with wrinkly fingers and they certainly will stink if you don't wash them though.

                Upcoming; 31st March Alloa half marathon Tom Scott 10 mile, 15th April Boston marathon, 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race

                Andres1045


                   

                  Just above freezing with rain is a type of weather that I feel I can confidently comment on. I found that trying to avoid getting wet hands just doesn't work for me, anything waterproof just ends up full of freezing sweat and rain run-off. Neoprene gloves are my favourite, you can end up with wrinkly fingers and they certainly will stink if you don't wash them though.

                  That makes a lot of sense, and sounds like a wetsuit concept. Is the idea wet is fine, as long as it's a warm(ish) wet? But I do think the smell would become unbearable. For over a year I ran with an optical HRM that had a neoprene strap. No matter how often I washed it, it would wreak.  Then again, I'd often lose about 4lbs worth of sweat on those summer runs.

                  Upcoming races:  I dunno.

                  JMac11


                    Fin - I forgot you would be the expert on this! So do you actually wear them? And do you have a brand recommendation? I'm going to try everything here. Not sure about this smell thing though.

                     

                    Sling - General rule of thumb I go by is that it's not worth it to run for less than 30 minutes if you're breaking runs up.

                    5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

                     

                    Next Race: Boston (4/15/19) 

                    slingrunner


                       

                      Sling - General rule of thumb I go by is that it's not worth it to run for less than 30 minutes if you're breaking runs up.

                       

                      Curious what your reasoning is?  For me, this was literally just hopping down into my garage. In any case 4 miles is over 30 minutes for me Smile

                      5k- 18:55 (2018)    10K- 39:04 (2017)    Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)

                      finbad


                        Andres, yes, just like a wetsuit they hold a skin of warmish water.

                         

                        Fin - I forgot you would be the expert on this! So do you actually wear them? And do you have a brand recommendation? I'm going to try everything here. Not sure about this smell thing though. 

                        I do, to be honest the smell is really only a problem if you wear them a few times then dry the on the radiator rather than washing them, bit of a damp towel smell.

                         

                        I have a couple of pairs of no-brand ones that I bought for about £5 from ebay. I see the same ones available on amazon too. No doubt they're Chinese.

                        Upcoming; 31st March Alloa half marathon Tom Scott 10 mile, 15th April Boston marathon, 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race

                        mattw4jc


                          I'm a strong believer that separating the fingers with gloves of any type is the first mistake many people make. I have light-weight mittens for any running between about 25 - 45F. Below 25 I use some cheap, insulated ski mittens. For cycling (I bike to work), I have light windproof mittens that are good for that same range. Below 25 I use slightly better insulated ski mittens.

                           

                          Rain is a different challenge though. I have circled back home and changed out wet for a dry pair before. If you're looking at long times in the rain with no chance to swap to dry gear, I would still shoot for some kind of windproof and/or gore-tex mitten. Wet and non-windproof are going to hurt even if the only wind is the 8mph air resistance or so wind you are creating.

                          steve_


                          powered by plants

                            Sling - General rule of thumb I go by is that it's not worth it to run for less than 30 minutes if you're breaking runs up.

                             

                            This is another thing that people read in Pfitz or Daniels that they take as gospel.  I'm not sure what kind of physiological magic begins after 30 minutes or whether it's just a matter of the time it takes you to dress and shower after the run that makes people think it isn't worth running an easy 5k, but I'm all about the second short run.  No better way to de-stress from the day and loosen your legs up before dinner/bed than a nice short jog.

                            5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

                            *downhill AF


                            Laura

                              Hey all - I'm back from the black hole I went in for a week and a half (life turned into a shit storm late last week). Great to see everyone logging the miles and getting workouts in. Much needed motivation mentally for me to read back through this weekend. Good news for me was last week was planned recovery week so running was already supposed to be on back burner which made the shit storm sting a little less. Rebounded well this week though and have gotten all my miles and workouts in so far, have some marathon work in my 16 miler tomorrow so really looking forward to that.

                               

                              I browsed quickly and need to go back and take time to read but didn't see if anyone posted about the New NYC half course. Hills in the beginning in prospect park, flat along FDR in the middle and hills start again around 9.5-10 but don't enter CP until mile 12ish.

                               

                              Re: Cold weather - I've been on the mill all week due to being home with my daughter and due to -30 windchill (sorry, NOPE). As for when I am out though, I have a pair of gloves that are warm but have wind shield mitten cover that's really helpful.

                              Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

                              Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:06 (2018-12 mo PP)

                               

                              2019 Lineup: Winter Warrior Half (1/5) {1:21:14}, NYC Half (3/17), Boston (4/15)

                               

                              {Strava}{IG}

                               

                              JMac11


                                I guess I don't really see the point of doing something like 60 minutes in the morning, 15 minutes at night. i was addressing the point of breaking runs up, not whether a 20 minute run serves a purpose at all. One part of the Daniels book I do take as gospel is to understand the purpose of every run, and besides using a 15 minute run at night to keep your legs loose after a big quality run in the morning, I don't see the purpose of that run from a physiological POV for easy running (certainly can help with mental stress). Or, to more directly address Sling's question, I don't see the point of doing four 20 minute runs instead of one 80 minute run. The one 80 minute run is going to help you significantly more for marathon training than four 20 minute runs.

                                 

                                It's a different question as well if you're just adding on miles that you wouldn't have done otherwise.

                                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Boston (4/15/19)