2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 670 times)


Elite Jogger

     

    I'm struggling with the idea of trusting someone else for pacing. Even as someone who has paced a race more than once. Just train all summer long and show up to let someone else control the speed. I should embrace this a LOT more and think of it as a woobie/security blanket. I know the pace is fine. Training never let me down. Just the concept of someone else having control is...odd. It's like having an actual teammate or one of you there.

     

    If you’ve got a Garmin then you don’t need to trust anyone else for pacing. If the 3 hour pace group goes out too fast (and I’ve seen that a lot over the years) then it’s YOUR choice whether to stick with them or hold back. I always have my watch set at average lap pace/mile rather than current pace and find that most reliable. I would personally find Cal and run with him as he knows the course and is a safe pair of legs. 😁

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

       

      Cal - I said it earlier, but I just think I set the bar so high for the weather for this race given the hype around it, that's all. I basically expected mid 40s, no wind. I'm surprised at how much rain has been in the forecast in the past few days, and in fact for the entire 3 days I'm in Cali. I thought the rainy season doesn't start in Cali until January? Was I wrong, or is this an abnormal year? 

       

      I only live here in California for 9 years but I believe the rains are expected to start in November and go all the way through April. I was also told that it used to be normal to have rains in October and sometimes they could even happen in May. Of course it's not like everyday's rains but the rains are usually go in bunches for a few days in a row. I also do not remember very heavy rains here - like I experienced in Russia or even in Illinois. But yes, you should always expect rains in December - it's normal and, imho, is welcomed. Plus, if I am not mistaken, when rains happen, the temps are usually are much warmer here than it would be without rains - 50oF with rains are pretty normal and I kind of like it, like it more than 32oF and no rains.

       

      Jayluf - sorry to hear about the pulling the plug - do you think the reason for latest issues that you ran too many races this year? Or do you think it's something else?

       

      Brew - they used to have a list of pacers on the CIM web site but I cannot find it. I had one close friend sub 3 pacer, but I didn't like his pacing strategy, so, I never followed him - plus I was in a better shape than just sub 3. For CIM 2017 they had Paul Terranova as a pacer and I thought he did a great job that year and I would follow him this year if he was a pacer. But I do not know who are pacers this year.

       

       I would personally find Cal and run with him as he knows the course and is a safe pair of legs. 😁

       

      You are kidding me - please no! Cal is old and slow right now - it would be the most unreliable bet a person with sub 3 aspirations would make. And my legs are still freaking heavy and tired - this morning's run felt pretty bad Sad

      Brewing Runner


      3:56 marathoner at heart

        cal It's Kyle Petty doing the 3:00 pace group. I found out from the expo speaker list. 11/13 sub 3 marathons and 2016 he nailed 3:00:00 perfectly which is one reason I'm tempted to just stay with him until the finish. Part of me hates being that close to a sub 3 the whole time, but my last marathon where I tried to be ahead of schedule didn't come out too well. I also strava stalked him. PR of 2:42 at Boston according to Strava. His 2016 was a piece of work.

        Rain = bay area snow. When it ACTUALLY snows on the foothills people drive up and take photos and such. It's weird. I never did it and I lived there about 18 years. I'm one of the Californian's ruining the neighboring state(s). I was wondering if I was the only person looking for the pacer page. In the past it was kind of nice. Ah who cares? I know my pace strategy is no faster than 6:45/mi. That was set by Jmac a week or two ago and it has been a pace where my internals start feeling uncomfortable. I'll forget all this come race day.

         

        You still wearing that "Running" shirt? I might hangout near you for a while and if I spot you ask how you're feeling around halfway. 2016 CIM I had to hold back until halfway before going for a 3:15. Great feeling taking that left hand turn. Almost like entering the point of no return.

        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

        Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

        Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

        Annual Miles 2,121 miles

        *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

         

        2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 


        Elite Jogger

           

           You are kidding me - please no! Cal is old and slow right now - it would be the most unreliable bet a person with sub 3 aspirations would make. And my legs are still freaking heavy and tired - this morning's run felt pretty bad Sad

           

          I was thinking that you could feed off each other....you’ve got the experience and calm head and Brew has the speed (I think)...but appears to be losing the plot.

           

          I still can’t get my head around why JMac/Weatherboy/Finbad never bothered to meet up or run together at Boston when they were so close fitness wise and familiar with each other’s training. 🤔

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

          Andres1045


            Brew - One issue with pace groups, especially ones like the 3hr group at CIM, I assume, is it can draw a big crowd. Sometimes you might find yourself either wanting to be with them, or well clear of them (for a variety of reasons, including water stops). If you're okay being with them, stay there. To get clear of them, that might be putting you in 1:28:30 or 1:31:30 range for the half - spots that you don't necessarily want to be in if you're thinking you'll get a "just barely under 3" time. Cal and DW or anyone else that's actually run CIM at around 3 could probably tell you if this is a problem with the course and the crowd that usually forms.

             

            And I wouldn't listen to what Cal said. After that 15k, it's kind of a lock that he'll break 3.

            Upcoming races: Houston Full January 2020

            JMac11


            Taper Czar

              I still can’t get my head around why JMac/Weatherboy/Finbad never bothered to meet up or run together at Boston when they were so close fitness wise and familiar with each other’s training. 🤔

               

              I searched EVERYWHERE in that damn corral for them. It turned out though me and Weather were on the exact opposite ends of the corral, so I'm not surprised we never found each other. It's also probably a good idea we didn't run together, as well clearly attacked this in very different ways. This is sort of the danger of even people close in fitness: you can all go for the same goal in very different ways. If I'm trying to hit a flat 6:00 pace, in no universe am I hitting the first mile in 6:00. Boston I hit my first mile in 6:30, even though I was clicking off 6:05s by mile 3. I think Finbad went out like a bat out of hell, and weather went out even slower than me!

               

              I don't think there's really anyone running this time that I want to latch on to. Maybe Swim, but not sure we're in exactly the same place. My best guess is that I go out in something like 6:15, and then see whether 6:05 feels right, or 5:55 feels right.

               

              I do think Brew and Cal need to at least run the first half together. It's not like Cal is going to run  6:55s because he just isn't sure if sub 3 is there. He's going out at 6:50 pace until the wheels fall off, so it seems like the perfect person to run with.

              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Mardi Gras Run to the Great South Bay Brewery 7.1 Miler (2/9/20)

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                Brew - One issue with pace groups, especially ones like the 3hr group at CIM, I assume, is it can draw a big crowd. Sometimes you might find yourself either wanting to be with them, or well clear of them (for a variety of reasons, including water stops). If you're okay being with them, stay there. To get clear of them, that might be putting you in 1:28:30 or 1:31:30 range for the half - spots that you don't necessarily want to be in if you're thinking you'll get a "just barely under 3" time. Cal and DW or anyone else that's actually run CIM at around 3 could probably tell you if this is a problem with the course and the crowd that usually forms.

                 

                And I wouldn't listen to what Cal said. After that 15k, it's kind of a lock that he'll break 3.

                 

                I've always seeded myself way back at CIM - last year I ran 2:57 starting behind the 3:10 group; in 2016 I ran 3:11 starting just behind the 3:23 pace group.  It works well for me, since I have people to reel in the whole way down the race.

                 

                The 3 hour pace group will be very big at CIM.  And unlike other races, there will end up being unofficial pace groups - I felt like there were definitely 2:58 and 3:01 pace groups that I worked my way through last year.

                 

                Optimal pace strategy always has to be a bit individual to the runner.  But for myself, if gun time is not a concern, I really like seeding myself back and working my way up throughout the race.  It has the advantage that when you're struggling at the end, you'll still have a supply of people slower than you ahead of you to reel in.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                Brewing Runner


                3:56 marathoner at heart

                  andres water stops are a MAJOR concern I have for sticking with the pace group. Oh and I think he's sandbagging it too and going to pull out some awesome run. It might hurt though. I'm honestly not sure what I'm capable of right now. Based on Hanson's pacing runs it would be 6:50/mi or better. Crossing half close to 1:30 is still going to feel so odd but I know it's what a sub 3 needs. I might pick race day to jus hit 6:50/mi pace and hang on to whoever is around me.

                   

                  darkwave I was very much thinking of your previous experiences, and overall marathon ability, when thinking of how I could start behind them, reel them in and be ahead of pace by doing so. Since gun time isn't a concern and chip time is the focus I can do this. I was expecting a large group just because it is a BQ and probably a major milestone for a fair number of people. It's one reason the forum has been helpful for this information, along with a lot of other helpful information I'm benefiting from. 3:01 sounds like an odd time to target. to each their own. Thanks for the input on pace group size.

                   

                  6:50s from the start and hanging on for dear life? Maybe I can tell calbears a story like I do on all my OTHER runs to keep him going. It's like white noise for some people. Drowns out the pain. If the group is really as big as I'm expecting (to the point of making aid stops a challenge) I'll skip ahead of them and focus on pace.  Like mikkey said I have the GPS. I have pace for the mile, total time, and total distance. I could print out a pace band if I wanted to know when I should be where. If I'm lucky they'll be available at the expo.

                   

                  Should I just stary yelling "OLAF! OLAF WHERE ARE YOU? DO YOU WANT TO BUILD A SNOWMAN?" before the race to find him? 

                  1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                  5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                  10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                  Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                  Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                  Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                  *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                   

                  2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                  weatherboy80


                     

                    I searched EVERYWHERE in that damn corral for them. It turned out though me and Weather were on the exact opposite ends of the corral, so I'm not surprised we never found each other. It's also probably a good idea we didn't run together, as well clearly attacked this in very different ways. This is sort of the danger of even people close in fitness: you can all go for the same goal in very different ways. If I'm trying to hit a flat 6:00 pace, in no universe am I hitting the first mile in 6:00. Boston I hit my first mile in 6:30, even though I was clicking off 6:05s by mile 3. I think Finbad went out like a bat out of hell, and weather went out even slower than me!

                     

                     

                     

                    Yup, as we've discussed on here many times I likely left some of my race in training before Boston so it might have have been a disaster for me to go out with Fin or JMac.  I ran whatever was in my legs on the day.  Plus the logistics and weather that morning were kind of nuts (delayed buses etc ...)  so meeting up in the village was kind of a crap shoot.

                     

                    BTW, think I'm about 2-3 days away from being able to run some Q again after my HM PR from Sunday.  Thought about trying a light T session earlier today, but decided against after a few extra sluggish accelerations yesterday and again today (see I'm slowly learning after my Boston cycle).  No sense in rushing things just yet especially since I've been able to maintain EZ high volume.  So will likely try a progression with a few faster miles late in my LR this Saturday instead before jumping back into the Q2 stuff mid next week Smile

                     

                    Before I forget good luck for those at CIM this weekend.  Safe travels!!

                    5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 34:30 (11/19)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                       

                      6:50s from the start and hanging on for dear life? Maybe I can tell calbears a story like I do on all my OTHER runs to keep him going. It's like white noise for some people. Drowns out the pain.

                       ...

                      Should I just stary yelling "OLAF! OLAF WHERE ARE YOU? DO YOU WANT TO BUILD A SNOWMAN?" before the race to find him? 

                       

                      One of the things I HATE most during running goal marathon (races) is the people TALKING Smile It doesn't drown out the pain (which you don't have until at least until the half of the distance) - quite opposite, it irritates  the hell out of me, breaks my internal rhythm (oh my, I just gave Mikkey a hint on his only opportunity to beat me ). Anyway, that's the deal...

                       

                      Who is OLAF?

                       

                      Andres - I was pretty optimistic after that 15K too - but now I started to think it was the day when I needed to run CIM Smile

                       

                      Yeah, I can agree now, the weather for Sunday morning doesn't look ideal - there is a big difference for me between rain and showers - showers has no impact on me, rain will make all the running stuff soaked and heavier. On a plus sign it will not be freezing rain, on a minus side the humidity will be close to 100%. Still not extremely bad, but probably second worst weather excluding year 2012. Now I know whom to blame - it's JMac - if he stays in NY I am sure we would have awesome conditions as always 

                      Brewing Runner


                      3:56 marathoner at heart

                         

                        Who is OLAF?

                         

                         

                        Oh....my......

                         

                        See the source image

                         

                         

                        Quarter inch of rain....interesting amount. It seems like the more we check the weather for CIM the worse it gets.

                        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                        Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                        Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                        Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                        *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                         

                        2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          While I know a 10 miler is not the same as a marathon, I want to point out that at Broad Street this year it was mid-50s with a steady miserable rain and a solid crosswind the whole race.  It wasn't the most fun weather to run in, but a lot of people ran really really fast that day.  So....it can be done.  Mid-50s and rain is not the same hypothermia risk that high 30s/low 40s and rain is.

                           

                          I do recommend buying some cheap latex gloves and wearing them for the race, either by themselves or under your other gloves.  They do wonders for keeping your hands dry, and grip very well (for grabbing gels and the like).  And if you decide you hate them, you can just toss them.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          weatherboy80


                            Coming from Florida this kind of weather sounds incredibly fast to me as well!

                            5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 34:30 (11/19)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                            Brewing Runner


                            3:56 marathoner at heart

                              I do recommend buying some cheap latex gloves and wearing them for the race, either by themselves or under your other gloves.  They do wonders for keeping your hands dry, and grip very well (for grabbing gels and the like).  And if you decide you hate them, you can just toss them.

                               

                              Oh shit! Totally awesome advice! It has the added bonus of keeping my hands away from germs.

                              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                              Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                              Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                              Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                              *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                               

                              2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                              slingrunner


                                Brewing- My suggestion, if there is any kind of relevant wind, is to stick with the pace group, unless there are a lot of other faster runners to work with too.  Maneuver out of the pack a bit when necessary if you are worried about water stops.  I feel like I was in a similar mentality to you last year when I was running Harrisburg.  It wasn't supposed to be super windy, but I went ahead of the 3 hour pace group, built a gap, and then felt like a fool for the next 15 miles as I always saw them right behind me working together while over the course of 2 hours, the wind slowly but surely zapped just enough of my energy to deny me my goal.  The mental/physical energy you save will be worth it, and more likely than not, that gut feeling at mile 4 or 5 you might have that you can pick up some time by moving ahead of them will turn out to be a mistake.

                                 

                                Hope everyone has a great race.  I'd be tracking, but I'm running a local 50K fat ass on Sunday.  Looking forward to recaps.

                                5k- 18:55 (2018)    10K- 39:04 (2017)    Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)