2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 343 times)

weatherboy80


    JMac: Will be curious to see how you like the shoes.  I've never tried them myself.  As for racing in the next few weeks, not likely unless the weather looks breaks or looks epic.  With our recent warm spell (all of February) some of my recent workouts have felt like racing towards the end anyways!  Plus my late Jan HM in the wind and rain really took a bit more to recover from more than I would have liked. Even though I kept the mileage up felt like I wasn't myself workout-wise for almost 2 weeks post race.  I do plan on racing at least a few shorter events (2 miler and 5K come to mind) for speed and will try and continue hitting my workouts over the next 4 weeks then its really almost taper time!

     

    JT:  Great time trial!  Nice step back week. I'm going to need plenty of those post Boston.

     

    Nimmals: hope the injury clears up.

     

    Sling: Sounds like a nice looking week.  March is going to be a tough month for all of us rounding the corner into Boston.

    5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

       

      DW/Sling/Testing VFs - I also plan on testing my VFs this Saturday in a 16 miler with 12 @ MP. I wasn't planning on doing any more MP work, but I really have to test out these shoes at pace over distance before the NYC Half / Boston so seems like the right time do it. DW - have there even been people that say the VFs don't work for them? I feel like I haven't heard that. Not saying the shoe is for 100% of people, but you now have me worried that I don't have a good backup plan.

       

      Yes, I've known of more than one person who sent them back.  They are a very distinctive feel, and not for everyone.  Most notably, I read somewhere that Bernard Lagat did not like them and would not run in them when he was doing Breaking 2.

       

      {edited to add: a quick bit of research shows that Lagat did wear VFs at NYC 2018, so there you go....}

       

      And even among those who do like them, I've seen quite a few instances of plantar/achilles issues popping up after running in them.  From what I understand (I think I posted this before) - you normally flex in two places when striking/pushing off - your metatarsal joint, and your ankle.  The stiffness of the VF effectively locks out the metatarsal joint, so you had better have some extra mobility in your ankle, or you may have issues.

       

      They are great shoes, and I would never discourage anyone from trying them.  But...don't count on them being magic shoes for you.

      The people that I've seen benefit the most from them are heavier runners who always needed a very heavy and cushioned shoe.  Now, they can have their cake and eat it too - they can have cushioning AND a super light shoe.    But for those of us who are used to running in very light shoes anyway, they don't make THAT much difference.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      M_M_C


        Nike shoe laces come untied easily. When I ran in, Nike I would need to tuck the laces under the laces on the throat of a shoe (not sure how else to explain it) regardless of the pace of my run or workout.

         

        Also I hope you don't race in Ghosts. I would put money on you dropping 3-5 minutes just by not running in Brooks Ghosts (or any Brooks for that matter).

         

        I have some secondary goals for my MP run, but the main one is getting my right shoe to stay tied.  Seriously.  My shoelace came undone during my last marathon.  And I've worn these Vapors for 2 runs, and the right untied during my 8 mile tempo run.  I'm not some buffoon that doesn't know how to tie shoelaces, I think those are the only laces issues I've had in 8 years of training, but then again 98% of my other runs have all been in Brooks Ghosts.  I'm hoping it's related to the metatarsal issue I had which was making me land in a strange way on that foot.

        3K: 8:29.12 (2017)     5K: 14:56.59 (2016)     8K: 25:27 (2016)     15K: 54:46.2 (2019)     FM: 2:58:48 (2019)

        Nimmals


          DW - Thank you. I hope it heals quickly my 50K is on Sunday my chiro gave me a nasty look. she said she'll have to see me twice next week.

           

          Sling those VF are a blessing and a curse. They are definitely not for everyone. They weren't for me at first but I found a solution.

          My friend has been out of commission about 4 months. The shoes destroyed her feet but she lowered her Half from 1:24 :38 to 1:19:04 and her 5k from 17:53 to :17:35  her 10k 37:53 to 36:04 All from April to May of last year.  Then had to sit out both Grandma and CIM, So the moral of it is you will run fast but you may have hell to pay if they aren't compatible.  You have to try them out in a race setting they are worth it if they work for you.

           

          weatherboy - thank you. btw - on Sunday it doesn't have a say.  I'll be in Wreck It Ralph mode.

           

          JMac - Save yourself a doorstop. Don't get the book. Hudson isn't for everyone. People into Pfitz, Jack Daniels will not get Hudson. Lots of people buy the book. Even though it makes a lot of common sense. It is simply too simple and freestyle. The main takeaway is no cookie cutter training schedule,  flexibility, honesty and self reliance. "Train all energy systems as opposed to the solely the aerobic." That's blasphemy!!!

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            The main takeaway is no cookie cutter training schedule,  flexibility, honesty and self reliance. "Train all energy systems as opposed to the solely the aerobic." That's blasphemy!!!

             

            The funny thing is the book is all about DON'T BE NEUROTIC ABOUT STICKING TO A SCHEDULE - MAKE PLANS WEEK BY WEEK.  And then it has a set of training schedules that I'm guessing the editors forced on him.

             

            Your point about honesty reminds me of a convo I had with a teammate on Sunday - about how honestly with oneself was crucial to proper training and reaching one's potential.  Seems like nearly every racing or training mistake can be traced back to someone deceiving themselves about how much something hurts or how hard a particular pace feels at the time.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              Nike shoe laces come untied easily. When I ran in, Nike I would need to tuck the laces under the laces on the throat of a shoe (not sure how else to explain it) regardless of the pace of my run or workout.

               

              I always had awful issues with Mizuno laces - to the point where I'd just routinely swap out laces each pair.

               

              I also have much more issue with my right foot untying - similar to Sling, I suspect that it's a function of my gait - I corkscrew a bit with my right foot sometimes.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


              Elite Jogger

                 

                 DW/Sling/Testing VFs - I also plan on testing my VFs this Saturday in a 16 miler with 12 @ MP. I wasn't planning on doing any more MP work, but I really have to test out these shoes at pace over distance before the NYC Half / Boston so seems like the right time do it. DW - have there even been people that say the VFs don't work for them? I feel like I haven't heard that. Not saying the shoe is for 100% of people, but you now have me worried that I don't have a good backup plan.

                 

                That sounds risky if you’ve never worn them before. My longest run in them was the 10k race last November and they felt great, but I had soreness for a few days after just above the outside ankles which I’d never experienced in any other shoes. I would do what DW suggested and take a spare pair to change into if they don’t feel right.

                 

                Slammin - Hope the tendinitis clears up and good luck on Sunday. 👍

                5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)

                 

                Next Up: London Mary - 28th April

                JMac11


                  Hmm, this will be tough to hide a pair of shoes in Central Park somewhere, may have to change locations to get this done. That or ask the wife to meet me just in case something goes poorly.

                   

                  I like the point about honesty. I keep looking back at my schedule and saying I did nothing wrong that caused so many injuries this cycle when I've been relatively injury-free, but if I'm being honest with myself, I know that I ramped up intensity and mileage at the same time, which is always a recipe for disaster. Having only done 3 marathons, I'm not sure I've figured out the right recipe of how to recover properly from a marathon and how long it takes to get back to your pre-taper workouts/mileage. Things are going much better now that I removed intensity completely a couple of weeks ago but have slowly been adding it back on.

                   

                  Regarding race pace honesty, I'm still telling myself a PR is possible, not sure that's truly being honest. I guess the NYC Half will tell me. I almost certainly have to go sub 1:19 to have a shot at PR'ing at the Boston.

                  5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                  Nimmals


                     

                    The funny thing is the book is all about DON'T BE NEUROTIC ABOUT STICKING TO A SCHEDULE - MAKE PLANS WEEK BY WEEK.  And then it has a set of training schedules that I'm guessing the editors forced on him.

                     

                    Your point about honesty reminds me of a convo I had with a teammate on Sunday - about how honestly with oneself was crucial to proper training and reaching one's potential.  Seems like nearly every racing or training mistake can be traced back to someone deceiving themselves about how much something hurts or how hard a particular pace feels at the time.

                     

                    Hudson, is the only book I have fully reread other than Percy Wells Cerutty. I borrow mostly from Hudson and Cerutty.

                    I do one of those Word cloud diagrams and Honesty is 40%, Flexibility 30%, Mental  Toughness20% Self Reliance 10%.

                     

                    I agree we have to be honest. Last night my Chiro and I had a nice talk she explained the damage I can do to my foot. I was honest, I know there is no avoiding what will happen. It happened in 2017 same race and likely the same Boston result.

                    steve_


                    powered by plants

                      Regarding the VFs, I ran in them the first time for my fall half on 10/13.  I ran 2 more times in them before my full so that I had a total of around 40 miles on them.  I'm not sure the concern about PF or Achilles with them.  I tore my PF in 2017 and dealt with Achilles tendonitis in 2016-17 and these were the first shoes that I've worn since that I didn't put my orthotics in.  Not a problem at all.  I honestly think this is the best shoe I've ever run in and it's not even close.  If I could go back, I wouldn't have run in them again after that half until the marathon.  If a shoe issue doesn't show up during a half, it's unlikely it's going to show during a full.

                      5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

                      *downhill AF

                      finbad


                        JMac - yup, quad has not shown any more moodiness. All good thanks.

                        Upcoming; 3rd May Scottish 5k champs, 9th May Helensburgh 10k, 16th May Dumbarton 10k, 24th May Monument mile, 26th May Shettleston 10k, 1st June Killearn trail 10, 2nd June Milngavie trail race, 16th June 7 hills of Edinburgh, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k

                        slingrunner


                          Interesting insights.  Yesterday was 5x1200, and during the last repeat I noticed my left shoelace getting loose (wearing my kinvara, my previous racing shoe).  The laces were still taut, but the connection between the tongue and laces was going away.  During my marathon where they eventually did come untied I took about 5 tries to lace them at the beginning, trying to hit the point where they were tight as possible without hurting me.  On Sunday I think I will go further and start with them actually uncomfortable.

                           

                          As far as sending the 4% back, I did with my first pair.  With both pairs my left foot felt fine, and my right hurts when I put it on (just standing up).  I was able to run 8 miles in them though and the awkwardness got better not worse as I ran.  I thought it was a defective shoe at first, but clearly something about my two feet are different.

                          5k- 18:55 (2018)    10K- 39:04 (2017)    Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)

                          JMac11


                            I'm definitely interested in testing these things out on Saturday. I know they're supposed to feel weird walking around, but the inner portion of my arch feels super weird. The shoes pinch in a weird way there. I've read that other people have noticed that and that for most the sensation goes away as you get up to MP or faster.

                             

                            Fin - Good to hear. Don't go crazy over these last few weeks trying to pick up lost time, you've done a great job this cycle and you need to get to the line healthy.

                             

                            If I had to guess the Boston order, this is what I think it will be (always fun to get a little competition in here!):

                             

                            Weather

                            Finbad

                            JMAC

                            Lela

                            Jayluf

                            Sling

                             

                            know Weather is emotionally scarred from a bunch of terrible weather marathons, but we're going to get a good one this time around, so we have a great shot at 6 people going sub 3. I'm sure you guys did this back in the day on RWOL, but would be cool to get it going here. Of course, I'm probably going for a PR regardless of what my half tells me (unless I can't even break 1:20), so I'm primed for a blowup to go 3:02 

                            5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                            M_M_C


                              Yo, where do I work in?

                               

                               

                              If I had to guess the Boston order, this is what I think it will be (always fun to get a little competition in here!):

                               

                              Weather

                              Finbad

                              JMAC

                              Lela

                              Jayluf

                              Sling

                               

                              3K: 8:29.12 (2017)     5K: 14:56.59 (2016)     8K: 25:27 (2016)     15K: 54:46.2 (2019)     FM: 2:58:48 (2019)

                              JMac11


                                Have you officially joined this thread? If you want to (I'm assuming this wasn't a troll, if it was, then boo), check out the first post from JT on how to introduce yourself.

                                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19)